Generator Stalling Out

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

My 10K Generator is model 10HDCAA-11506D.

Looks like your gen has the same 20A alternator as Ivans.

So, that doesn't appear to be a contributing factor as to whether your gen can shut down while firing the Cummins 🤔.

Edited July 16, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Daryl Ammons said:

Just strange to me that the gen shutting down just started happening on the way home from a recent trip.  Had never happened before.  
my gen is a 12kw and the 2 cranking batteries are new (4/23) 1000CA.  I have tried using battery boost but does not make a difference.  I am not sure the big boy is working on this one either.  Gonna try to check that today.  Not having problems with chassis battery going down but it has a battery tender Hooked to it.  Guess I should have ask PO why that was needed huh.  Looks like the wiring to the BB is different than my previous MH so makes me think they may have altered it.  Maybe I will send you a picture of the RR box.  
Still wonder if the starter is dying and pulling more amps than it should?  The first turn of the engine makes you wonder if it’s gonna crank.  PO said it had always been like that and he had the starter replaced under warranty but did not change.  I read on a post that someone had replaced the starter on their ISX with a Denso starter and cured the problem.    Lots of ???????

My take.  You are the second to report a 12.5, presumably with an alternator, to have this issue.

My take.  Why risk damaging the Genny?  Don’t crank with it on.  No sense in breaking something that isn’t broke.

You and Frank discussed the BB problem on your previous Dynasty and used a shade tree fix.  The first thing I would do is pull out the BB and clean it up.  Easy and you can inspect the contacts and washer.  Frank wrote a paper. NOW…..get two short alligator jumpers and do NOT bolt back in the BB.  WITH BOTH BATTERY SWITCHES OFF…like you did to remove it….”sit” it back in place….don’t bolt in.  Or just keep it out.  Secured for safety.  The two 2/0 (4?) need yo be back in place…just like Monaco buikt it.  Then use the jumpers to connect the control wires.  If you put it back in the “hole”, then use them on each terminal so you can measure voltage.  Frank & I differ on the readings, but Intellitec tech support told me this….and David Pratt also measured his 05 Executive several years ago.  Bottom line.  Get it set up for testing.  NOW…power up everything.  No AC or Generator.  Hook up a VOM to the alligator leads or if accessible, put your leads on the control terminals.  Have your wife turn on the breaker for 50 A. There should be a CLUNK.  Then the BB should be buzzing or humming and start to get hot to the touch.  On your system, I THINK that the voltage to the control terminals will be in the 5 - 7 VDC range.  In reality, the signal is a pulse output, but you can heard it with a VOM and it gives a lower voltage.  Mine has the simple Intellitec Diesel 2 Module.  It is barely above 3.2 VDC.  It makes less noise and runs cooler than the Dynasty.  If the control board doesn’t power up the BB, then you have the same issue as on your Dynasty….see Frank on that.

OK….now, have your wife push the Battery Boost.  You should have 12 VDC.  If not, print time…. There may be a relay in the circuit to the BB…so, do some research….

NOW… @vanwill52 is one of our best starter guys.  He has put on a Gear Drive unit that has more mechanical advantage and wrote it up. My rule of thumb “hot soaked” 10 minutes later test is basic and simple.  That is what Frank says is reliable.  The messages you ger on the dash about low battery are “false”.  We both, with new fully charged 950 (two) get them if the switch is on for a minute or so.  BUT, we have Medallion clusters….others may or may not do that.  

BTW….scroll through your prints.  There is a battery listing.  See what should be there.  Frank’s Dynasty say two group 31 (31 - M HD).  Those are 950 CCA….check your battery label.  My ISL, same as Frank’s except the Jake brake, came with the 31 - L HD or whatever….they were only 750 CCA.  First upgrade!.  So, did the PO not know or go cheap or had bad into…..your owners manual may also have the spec.  DO THESE FIRST….don’t assume and throw money at the wrong thing.  

NEXT.  Chase BOTH ground cables from the box and find the ground stud.  Clean and retighten.  Often a COMMON issue…overlooked.

After you start to check out the BB circuit and the battery specs….then if you are concerned, pull both and have the chassis load tested.  The carbon pile testers work OK on a cranking battery…so they can tell you if the battery is close or has the CCA that is advertised.

ONE STEP AT A TIME….carry a Jumper cable.  BTW….if you have a bad set or one Chassis, putting the Jumper cable between them should, with good house, spin the engine with no issues.  If it doesn’t….then time for current measuring and diagnostics and troubleshooting.

[Tom Cherry]

16 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

If I had to shut my gen down before starting the Cummins, I'd be rewiring the opposite to what I've done! I'd be wiring it to the house bank!

Wouldn't be happy about it, as I'd have to raise my AGS sensing voltage up.

OK…Ben….I’m dense.  You DID rewire your 10K(No Alternator) Genny to NOW crank off the Chassis.  Monaco had it crank off the House.  IS THAT CORRECT.

Next up, if the Genny shut down, then you would go back to the original House.  Is that correct.

Maybe OK….but not every 10 K shuts down.  If they do and there seems to be adequate cranking power and the Genny performs fine other than that….then do like the others and get over it….OR start tearing into it.  Personally, knowing this may be a quirk and not impacting every Monaco with a 10 or 12.5 that cranks off the chassis….if there are no other issues….leave well enough alone.  But, if bugs you….

Next up.  your comment about AGS can be taken out of context….so, you probably know this, but for the others.

MOST folks already have their AGS set too high….bumping it up will reduce the number of “recharges” available and is not recommended by Trojan or Magnum.  I and others have spent a lot of time on the phone with each.  To make it simple….  The Magnum remote drives the AGS trigger or set point.  Something like a minute or two…at 0.1 VDC under the set point.  The remote is +/- 10%….per Magnum.

Nexr up.  The Trojan SOC chart is based on the “revived or spring back or recoery” voltage….NOT THE “Load” or operating voltage.  Magnum says this is too complex for their average customer….so they sort of punt and keep it simple.  They ALSO set the default Low Battery Cut Off at 10 VDC.  DUH….that’s gonna help and prevent you from ruining your battery.  They say…WELLLLL. And move on.

In addition, they offer NO guidance on the AGS in the Remote Manual and refer to their AGS manual. NADA or nary any advice or recommendations.  So….here is what Trojan says…

You need to know when, perfect or theoretically, and what voltage to set your AGS to so that after the load is removed and the battery starts to recover, what the SOC is THEN.  Typically, if you use a moderate recommended load of about 10% of the amp hours, then put that load on for a period of time.  Monitor the Magnum remote as well as the actual battery voltage.  Based on the expected recovery of the normal 10% load, the loaded battery battery voltage (on the terminals) will be about 0.15 VDC lower than the revived or recovery voltage.  SO, if 12.10 is (Trojan chart) 50%….then odds are, if the remote is like the typical Magnum, your inside voltage will be lower.  Say 12.0 or maybe bouncing around 12.0/11.9.  MINE has a 0.15 VDC error.  So, i have to COMPENSATE.

Next up, the recovery voltage on my Trojan T-105…which are exercised and will recover after recharging to a full 100%….the loaded voltage, at the battery terminals will be 0.15 LOWER.  

OK….got all that.  My AGS set point should be, for a 50% discharged battery for the AGS to kick in is 11.8.  OMG….that will KILL THEM.  The logic.  The Remote voltage is what drives the AGS.  There is a 0.15 VDC error or too low a reading from the actual terminals.  That is the UNDER 10% Load…and the recovery voltage will be 0.15 VDC higher.  0.15 + 0.15 = 0.30. So…for MY AGS to be set properly, the set point should be 11.8.  Simple logic and arithmetic.  NOW….if you have the ACR remote and the BMK, the setting is supposed to be more accurate, but no one has run the correlation studies….so, my logic is for MINE…

BUT it is a simple experiment to verify your meter accuracy and the rexovery….that’s what Magnum says their average customer does NOT have the mental capability to grasp.  A DIRECT QUOTE.  Trojan said my logic and experiments were correct and you should never set the SOC from a chart without understanding your components and system.

That’s it…class dismissed..  LOL

 

[96 EVO]

22 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

OK…Ben….I’m dense.  You DID rewire your 10K(No Alternator) Genny to NOW crank off the Chassis.  Monaco had it crank off the House.  IS THAT CORRECT.

Next up, if the Genny shut down, then you would go back to the original House.  Is that correct.

 

 

 

Correct on both counts!

If I had to shut everything down each time I started the Cummins, I'd likely switch the wiring back to the house bank, and keep doing what I'm doing.

Hoping that's not going to happen though!

I've recently installed my second pair of 950CCA chassis batteries, and have had 'zero' gen shutdown's so far 🤞!

[Tom Cherry]

2 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Correct on both counts!

If I had to shut everything down each time I started the Cummins, I'd likely switch the wiring back to the house bank, and keep doing what I'm doing.

Hoping that's not going to happen though!

I've recently installed my second pair of 950CCA chassis batteries, and have had 'zero' gen shutdown's so far 🤞!

My bet.  You will be fine….until it happens….or if it does.  As long as your house chassis batteries are OK, then you do what you feel is best.  But if you fail the really HOT today and 10 minute hot soak test, I wouldn't risk it.  But it is your MH.  Thus far, no magic set of circumstances since we don't know battery conditions and ambient and how long the Chassis System falls (air intake current drain) to 12.0…..and then jumps up.  It is a ghost….

I’ve run my batteries after they failed the hot day soak test, but the next season…a new set.

I’m assuming you are occasionally checking to see if your Big Boy & Diesel 2 system is working while driving with the house down a little and genny running, the bulk charge voltage will bump my chassis system (on my Medallion led screen).  I’m thinking you have a Aladdin or Jr.  If the BB Is working….you should be good to go.  But not every owner with the 10K has this.  But it is too common an occurrence for someone not to have “solved it”  I accept it as an intermittent….and would not tempt fate by knowingly doing something that could, if repeatedly done, cost me big bucks….

 

[96 EVO]

One observation....

I've notice a few that have posted they have had issues with their gen shutting down, have also mentioned slow cranking of their Cummins engine.

My ISL has 'Always' been a fast starter!

I swear my crankshaft doesn't make two revolutions before she's running!

May be related, maybe not!

[Tom Cherry]

5 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

One observation....

I've notice a few that have posted they have had issues with their gen shutting down, have also mentioned slow cranking of their Cummins engine.

My ISL has 'Always' been a fast starter!

I swear my crankshaft doesn't make two revolutions before she's running!

May be related, maybe not!

I’ll bet that when your chassis batteries get some age and fail the Hot Day - Hot Soak test, you will have the OMG moment.  I know many ISL engine owners….Dynasty and Camelot (or twins) and the OMG….it isn’t….thank God it did moment is common.  All a matter of heat and compression and cranking power.  I have never had to use a Jumper…but once, when my Big Boy failed and after starting the Genny and Jumping the positives and waiting 5 minutes, bingo….First lick cranked….no hesitation.  Let it run for 30 minutes and got a new set.  Came back and shut down,  curiosity.  Took off jumper.  Killed genny.  Absolutely NO hesitation on the Chassis.  But they were maybe 7 YO, and we had a trip planned and the 950 CCA 31MHD Interstate’s were around $250….total…not each.  

Too many folks report the same thing…. But YES, it cranks quickly…but when the chassis get a little age and put under the Hot & Hot…it is natural…we have more reports or talking to people and this happens, than we do the “shuts down”.  Go figure.