Generator Stalling Out

[96 EVO]

On 7/8/2023 at 8:24 AM, Dr4Film said:

 

Like @Rocketman3 if I attempt to start the engine while the 10K generator is running it will kill the generator. I believe it is due to low voltage as the starter is drawing way too many amps from the Chassis Battery Bank.

I've never had that issue!

[Ivan K]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

I've never had that issue!

Me neither but I think Rocketman is right if the batteries can't keep up. If it is hot, I regularly start the generator and ACs prior to the engine. It probably helps that the 12.5K has its own alternator to keep itself alive. Not sure about 10K.

[96 EVO]

13 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

  It probably helps that the 12.5K has its own alternator to keep itself alive. Not sure about 10K.

Couldn't tell ya!

My 10K only has 375hrs on it, and luckily, I haven't had to get that deep under the covers....... Yet!

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

I've never had that issue!

That’s because your 10 Kw cranks off the House.  The OP has a Dynasty.  If your genny shuts down for the same low or intermittent problem, your House bank is low,  none of the ONAN’s have an alternator.  They depend on the cranking battery maintain adequate 12 VDC power.

Hope this explains it.

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

Me neither but I think Rocketman is right if the batteries can't keep up. If it is hot, I regularly start the generator and ACs prior to the engine. It probably helps that the 12.5K has its own alternator to keep itself alive. Not sure about 10K.

Fascinating.  Assume that if you are correct, then the issue will be with 10Kw units cranked off CHASSIS….and not the House cranked ones, like the Camelot/Scepter.  If that happens to those with a 10KW….they got a house bank issue.  The 8 & 10 Kw depend on cranking battery voltage to keep running.

GOOD INFO. THANKS.

[96 EVO]

3 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

That’s because your 10 Kw cranks off the House.  

It Did!

Not for several years though!

[Ivan K]

24 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Fascinating.  Assume that if you are correct, then the issue will be with 10Kw units cranked off CHASSIS….and not the House cranked ones, like the Camelot/Scepter.  If that happens to those with a 10KW….they got a house bank issue.  The 8 & 10 Kw depend on cranking battery voltage to keep running.

GOOD INFO. THANKS.

Yes, I am correct (at least in this aspect) Here is a picture of the rear fan area when I was changing the belt as part of 3000 Hrs maintenance. It has over 4k hours now and cranks off chassis.

[96 EVO]

Onan 'may' have eliminated it when they switched to Kubota engine's.

[Tom Cherry]

4 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

It Did!

Not for several years though!

Well, if you rewired it, then you, potentially, have the same issue…unless you added a supplemental battery.  It has to be charged off a 110 VAC separate charger.

But if you recabled the 10 KW to start off the Chassis….then you have the same scenario as the others, and any Dynasty owner…

[96 EVO]

Yep, same scenario as the others, but, my gen has never died when I crank up the Cummins!

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Onan 'may' have eliminated it when they switched to Kubota engine's.

My HDKAK (8 KW) and the HDKCA (10Kw 240/120 ) both have, according to an authorized Cummins ONAN distributor’s website, Cummins engines.  Some Marine applications had the Kubota 3 cylinder.  What does your generator have? Model number?

Fascinating.

[96 EVO]

Kubota 3cy - Model 10HDKCA11506B

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Kubota 3cy - Model 10HDKCA11506B

Fascinating…..  you gotta wonder…..???

https://www.absolutegenerators.com/cummins-onan-qd-10000-commercial-mobile-diesel-generator-10-0hdkcc-42345-10-kw-prime-single-phase-120-240-volt-liquid-cooled

This distributor, which allows you to search or filter by engine lists the above with a Kubota.  

Same distributor…..

https://www.absolutegenerators.com/cummins-onan-qd-10000-rv-diesel-generator-10-0hdkca-11506-10-kw-prime-single-phase-120-240-volt-liquid-cooled

This one, same model as you have, is listed with a Cummin’s engine.

I don’t know.  Folks on other forums talk about the engines being a Kubota for all Cummins but they can find parts, but when they give the PN for internal items to a Kubota dealer, he says…..we don’t make that….gotta order from Cummins.  I just hope I don’t have any issues.  Maybe they were swapping them back and forth?

Back on point, all we know is what’s has been stated here and other places….Dynasty’s from the early 2000 through at least 2008 have an issue when the cranking battery’s voltage drops while the generator is running as that is the battery that is also running or providing 12 VDC power for the generator.  When the air intake heaters kick in and stay on for a while, sometimes, not all times, the cranking batteries will not provide enough voltage or low voltage alarms or sensors on the Genny boards will kick in and out and eventually, if the cranking batteries stay low enough, shut down the genny.  

The fix is to “not do that” or rewire, which is the reverse of what I thought you said or put in a third battery, charged from a 110 VAC charger and isolated from the two systems.  That’s it….pure and simple.

 

[96 EVO]

Yeah, I never had that happen with the previous set of chassis batteries which were in for 8yrs service, or my new chassis batteries.

After a overnight without shore power, I generally fire the generator to get the batteries charging before heading on down the road. I don't like using my engine alternator to charge a depleted house bank. So I usually start the gen first, and leave it running for the first couple of hours travelling, no matter how hot or cold the weather is.

I know for sure at times my Cummins intake grid heater has come on!

[Ivan K]

Some of the 10k also used an Isuzu 3LD1 pickup engines, also used by John Deere and have glow plugs. Ours does too. (No need to pay Onan/Cummins prices) Don't know how grid heating consumption compares to plugs with these little engines.

[96 EVO]

I rewired my gen to use the chassis bank about 7yrs ago. For myself, it makes the AGS a better tool. Not that I use it much, traveling from shore power to shore power!

But who knows, maybe we will one day become avid boondocker's, searching for those secret spot's!

Or, we'll just follow Ivan, like a couple of deranged stalkers 🤣🤣!

14 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Some of the 10k also used an Isuzu 3LD1 pickup engines, also used by John Deere and have glow plugs. Ours does too. (No need to pay Onan/Cummins prices) Don't know how grid heating consumption compares to plugs with these little engines.

The Kubota engine run's glow plugs as well. 

I was talking about the extra draw on the chassis batteries from the ISL grid heater.

Edited July 11, 2023 by 96 EVO

[timaz996]

Just throw another log on the fire, my 7.5 generator has its own battery mounted in the slide in front of the generator.

[96 EVO]

2 minutes ago, timaz996 said:

Just throw another log on the fire, my 7.5 generator has its own battery mounted in the slide in front of the generator.

That was my other option, but the chassis bank seems to be doing fine. 

Plus, it was about a $30 and half hour change for me!

[Ivan K]

48 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

I was talking about the extra draw on the chassis batteries from the ISL grid heater.

I see, I dont have that, no wait to start.

[96 EVO]

3 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

I see, I dont have that, no wait to start.

So, that makes me one of the few who's gen doesn't shut down while starting the ISL engine!

I must have done something right 🤔!

[96 EVO]

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

This one, same model as you have, is listed with a Cummin’s engine.

I don’t know.  Folks on other forums talk about the engines being a Kubota for all Cummins but they can find parts, but when they give the PN for internal items to a Kubota dealer, he says…..we don’t make that….gotta order from Cummins.  I just hope I don’t have any issues.  Maybe they were swapping them back and forth?

 

 

Tom, this is the sticker I have, on the generator chassis, below the maintenance door.

If your gen has a Kubota engine, I'd expect you will have a similar label.

 

[Gene Y]

15 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

Gene, where is that?  I wanna go there!!

We just today relocated from Eastern Quebec along the St. Lawrence River to Prince Edward Island. Expected high temp tomorrow 73F. Getting back to the original issue, I tried something new today. It was a little warm while driving so I decided to attempt running the AC again while driving. Had been on the road for approx 2.5 hrs, started the genny while rolling, it shut down before I even attempted to start the AC. Continued to drive for another 1.5 hrs. when we came upon a pull off along the Salmon River. Lovely spot where we took our lunch break. Upon restarting the coach for departure I had the idea to start the generator using the inverter remote panel. Generator started and ran well. After allowing the 5 minute warm up I started the AC. After it's normal wait period it came on and ran for the rest of the drive. This is what I think is going on, last year at the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta I had a friend set up my AGS. Had forgotten that he advised me to only start the genny from the Inverter remote panel. Not sure how or why that works but I'm looking forward to trying it again when the opportunity presents itself. We do plan on returning to the US in September where I'm sure we will run into higher temps. Anyway enjoy the weather in the States if that is where you are. Right now we're trying to chase the comfortable weather. Haven't run the AC for the past 5 days except for today while on the road.

[96 EVO]

Ah, the old AGS settings playing havoc with your gen!

Good to hear it's not an issue with your generator 👍!

Now you just need to go thru the remote setup manual to see why your gen won't run when started from the dash switch.

[Tom Cherry]

8 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Ah, the old AGS settings playing havoc with your gen!

Good to hear it's not an issue with your generator 👍!

Now you just need to go thru the remote setup manual to see why your gen won't run when started from the dash switch.

At this point, @Gene Y, time for you to do some reading.  Monaco does not have the 2003 Signature owner manual online.  Next up, they don’t have the 2003 Signature sales brochure.  I did download the 2004 Signature manual.  Now way to know if yours is the sane.  This is where it really gets interesting.  The 2004 Sig came with a 12.5 KW system.  That is totally different than the 10Kw that I and maybe others thought you had….so…back to basics.  
 

What Genny do you have?  10 KW or 12.5 KW?  Verify in the manual and also on the name plate on the generator.  For the sake of NOT giving you  good or bad information, we need that. If you have the 12.5KW, then it has an alternator and all of our comparisons to the models with 10Kw units was for naught.  So we need that….otherwise folks, like me, will make assumptions or guess and that only causes you, as well as others, more confusion…..

Next up, pull your manual.  There are, in the 2004 Sig Manual, two different Inverter controls.  One of them has an option to “take full control” of the generator from the Inverter.  See the pictures below.  You need to read the sections and determine exactly what type of remote that you have.  Then, scroll through the program and write down what option or parameter is set for every function.  Keep that.

NOW….reread the section of set up again.  Ben makes a good point.  If your system is programmed for the “Inverter Remote” is king, then you need to fully understand what that means.  We rarely can find the owner’s manuals for the Xantrex/Trace older inverters, so we can’t read and help you.

I suggest you call the friend that did the setup….AFTER you read and start to understand, and ask him to coach you or help you out.

Bottom line, we have more information and knowledge of the Magnum inverter systems.  The folks that chimed in about the same symptoms on the newer Dynasty and such have a different inverter.  The Magnum inverter and Remote are STAND ALONE.  The factory wired buttons for operating the Generator work regardless of where the generator was started.  The Magnum AGS is just like a parallel startup.  There is no “turning over all the generator control” to the inverter.  Going out on a limb….and totally without, now, enough information….

IF there is an issue with your Remote….I’m lost.  If I repeat what you told us…

Generator runs fine in camp.  What we do NOT KNOW is how the remote works.

It appears from what you said earlier that NOT having the generator ON and then cranking the engine resolved that.  So, if you have the 10KW, that makes sense. BUT, if you have the 12.5 KW….NOPE….as it has, we are told, an alternator.  My advice.  Don’t run the Generator and then crank the engine.

Next up is the “opps….forgot and started it from the controls” and friend said to use the Inverter.  That one is a mystery to me as that is a feature and controls that few have and we know how to help troubleshoot the Magnum AGS….and Magnum Inverter.  I can’t tell you with 100% confidence that we have never seen one of the older Magnum AGS module act up and shut down a Generator, but in 14 years, I don’t recall reading about one….

As to the first exchanges…..I am of the opinion that probably you do NOT have any Generator issues….therefore tracking down a non existent mechanical issue was not advised. 

After you get more information and learn and….if you have the “take total control” remote, I would disable that.  Then stsrt anduse the generator.  Then, if I needed the AGS, i would set the remote for that function only and not try to “do it all from there”…

Let us know what you learn and find out….

 

8 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Tom, this is the sticker I have, on the generator chassis, below the maintenance door.

If your gen has a Kubota engine, I'd expect you will have a similar label.

 

Hard to argue with that label.  I’m sure you have looked at the model label as well.  Onan labels both of them as QD 10000.  Monaco left out my genny manual.  I’ve been going by the SN On the build sheet.  I guess when I pull it out later in the summer, l’ll check.

Thanks

[Guest Ray Davis]

9 hours ago, Gene Y said:

  Expected high temp tomorrow 73F          Right now we're trying to chase the comfortable weather

Now that may be the best game plan yet!!!!    We're on our way,   maybe.  Gotta check with the boss.   🧐

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Ray Davis

[Ivan K]

Gene, what you experienced with the genny shutdown is normal if you Trace AGS is set for auto shut OFF. It can be set for different stages of charge, like Absorb And Float. The setting is overwritten if started from the remote. A manual for the remote would show you how to operate and set it up but if you hold UP and Down buttons until a beep, you get into menu. Scroll down and set it for manual stop like this, with the right arrow. Just remember that if the generator autostarts, it won't shut off on its own.