STEP ISSUES - 2 STEP. 2005 Cheerah

[Guest Al redcay]

Had rv tech work on steps, problem steps retract & won’t come out, said controller was bad, ordered new one he installed it an It still  does the same thing. Now he says I need to replace motor & gear. Has anyone else have similar issue. It’s a 2 step 2005 Monaco cheetah 

[Wrayj1]

Had to replace entire step unit in my '07 Rambler 4 years ago.   Your tech sounds repair by guessing?

[Land Lubber]

I chose to replace the step assembly rather than just the motor. Not knowing how old the steps were this seemed to be the prudent choice.

[CAT Stephen]

Al,

Look carefully at the bottom of your step to determine the make and the model number.  There is a ~90% chance that your step is manufactured by Kwikee. 

 

After you have verified that you have a Kwikee step, the 2005 era Kwikee step motor/controller replacement is dicey because Kwikee does not have good motor and controller documentation from that era. That is why your current RV tech is "fishing" on your dime to resolve the issue because Kwikee had multiple motor and controller iterations during that era to address step motor controller product failures.

 

The fast path is to just order a new Kwikee step, as @Land Lubber suggested above, from Amazon ($600-$900 depending upon the step model) and install it.  Set aside 1 hour for the swap as the bolts attaching the step to your Class A are challenging to access.  You will need a socket set and an automotive hydraulic jack to lower the retired step from the RV and raise the new step to your RV to bolt it in place.  The wiring harnesses on the Kwikee steps are quick disconnect, so no electrical knowledge or electrical tools are required.

 

For your personal safety, disconnect the house and chassis batteries before you start the job as powered steps can amputate fingers.

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by CAT Stephen

[Tom Cherry]

Unfortunately, it appears that your tech did not follow the manual for both the Coachstep or the Kwikee.  Lippert NOW owns both and there have been ads on many sites for motors that will fit both.  The problem is, you need to understand the FUNCTION and follow a simple  12 VDC testing procedure.  That will then pin down WHERE the problem is.  Motor, Controller, Magnetic Switch or such

Here are Three manuals.  Basically the same.  If you have the sliding tray step (look at the end of the first one...Lippert (Kwikee) Entrance Steps... PDF...then that is one of their 42 or "842" series.  The other deal with the Kwikee and Coachstep, which were basically clones or perhaps one knocked off the other.

So, if you have the two step model where the step sort of pivots out on two bars or straps, then the logic and such is the same. 

NOW....there is also one that is at the end and it may be the CHEAPEST motor to use.  A word of caution...and this comes from HANDS ON...not just reading and then sounding knowledgeabe.  There are a WORLD of motors out there.  On the Swing our or pivot out step, there are three bolts that have to be inserted through the three holes on the motor housing.  BUT, there is a bushing or spaced on either side...  The Motors have die cast housings or frames.  Depending on who measured which motor and tooled up, the centerlines of those holes vary all over the map.  I went through a GUARANTEED...Stamped Lipper Coachnet motor.  Two hours later in almost 100 deg...  I quit.  I find a Stromberg Carlson motor at CW and it was the same PRICE as the Ebay GUARNATEED.  And CW put it on for less than an hour's labor.  SO, I have NO idea if the tech had to take a round rat tail file and open up the holes or knew to drill them out or just assembled it the first time.  BUT, it works.

NOW...the warning about safety goes double.  I am a retired Safety Director and amputations are NOT pleasant. 

BUT, as we age, then there is an even HIGHER risk.  If the motor, like mine, had a stripped out plastic gear inside, it was erratic.  SO...when it went partially out, it would NOT lock.  BUT...  then when you put your foot on it...BINGO, it collapsed.  My 14 YO granddaughter had good reflexes...but, I strapped it inside and bungee corded it for my then 75 YO wife with a failing knee would have been severely injured....always HAVE A GRIP on the inside or outside assist bar.

ONE OTHER TIDBIT...again...  HANDS ON..  The tech may not be the most well informed.  I had a new controller installed.  My tech was GOOD.  But, when I got home....after an hour's drive.  NO JOY.  Called him.  He said.  Get under it and then plug and unplug it a few times.  BINGO...it has worked fine since then...(that was in 2014) and it finally failed in 2021...  NOW., Lowes sells a Gardner Bender Anti-Oxidation tube or bottle in the electrical department.  There is another brand.  NoAlox.  This stuff is like toothpaste with ground up metal aluminum (maybe some copper) fines.  You put in on the contracts (male and female) of the 4 wire connector.  Use a toothpick or a Qtip...Use sparingly and just enough to barely cover or get a few "drops" on...then plug and unplug.  The abrasive paste or "goop" helps clean the contacts.  I would have the tech, at NO COST, try that.  THEN...no JOY...tell him to read the trouble shooting instructions and then TOTALLY be sure before you pop for a motor.  MOST techs know exactly how to do it....so...

 

Lippert (Kwikee) - Entrance Steps Model Kwikee 42 Series Owner's Manual.pdf Lippert Universal Step manual pg_2005steptrainpart2.pdf Lippert Coachstep.pdf CoachStepElectric - Instructions - Stromberg Carlson.pdf Coach Step Motor Replacement - Aftermarket Motor.pdf

[Martinvz]

That is good info from Tom. If you do not find a solution then do not hesitate to call Lippert. I had issues as well, not the same as you, and found Lippert willing to help and provide answers. You may not get a great support person first time, do call again. My outcome was more than satisfactory and that is why I encourage you to call them. 

[FLynes]

We had the exact same problem with our coach last year, and it came down to needing a reverse polarity harness, which Lippert does sell. In our case the steps would go in when the door was open and they would extend when the door was closed.

[Guest Al redcay]

On 8/23/2023 at 10:56 PM, FLynes said:

We had the exact same problem with our coach last year, and it came down to needing a reverse polarity harness, which Lippert does sell. In our case the steps would go in when the door was open and they would extend when the door was closed.

 

My step goes in an stays in for 5 to 10 mins & then comes out , what does a reverse polarity wire have to do with that , 

[Tom Cherry]

3 minutes ago, Al redcay said:

 

My step goes in an stays in for 5 to 10 mins & then comes out , what does a reverse polarity wire have to do with that , 

Probably not… but, odds are…the controller is flaky.  Run the tests in the trouble shooting guide.  If the step, magically goes back after the 10 minutes suspect an electrical issue.  Clean and replug in the harnesses.  Best guess…the magnetic switch is loose or the magnet or a bad switch.  If the switch is maladjusted and just “barely” in the right mode (open or closed) then it vibrates for decides to close (assuming the contacts were open), then start there…. No guarantees, but a whole lot cheaper to replace the switch and magnet than to vuy a new controller.  Use your VOM on “ohms/continuity” and a couple of needles if you can’t get to the terminals.  Check the mode…OPEN or CLOSED (the actual switch contacts) the. Extend and do it again.  That ways you will find out which one to get as there are two kinds.  One closed when magnet is in place…and the other open.  

[Guest Al redcay]

58 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Probably not… but, odds are…the controller is flaky.  Run the tests in the trouble shooting guide.  If the step, magically goes back after the 10 minutes suspect an electrical issue.  Clean and replug in the harnesses.  Best guess…the magnetic switch is loose or the magnet or a bad switch.  If the switch is maladjusted and just “barely” in the right mode (open or closed) then it vibrates for decides to close (assuming the contacts were open), then start there…. No guarantees, but a whole lot cheaper to replace the switch and magnet than to vuy a new controller.  Use your VOM on “ohms/continuity” and a couple of needles if you can’t get to the terminals.  Check the mode…OPEN or CLOSED (the actual switch contacts) the. Extend and do it again.  That ways you will find out which one to get as there are two kinds.  One closed when magnet is in place…and the other open.  

Already replaced controller after checking power , cannot loss of power & you can open & close door several times & it works fine then it goes in an stays in for awhile , then it comes out, only other thing Incan thing is a flat spot on motor. I’m gonna replace that & will let ya know , thank for input. 

[Tom Cherry]

43 minutes ago, Al redcay said:

Already replaced controller after checking power , cannot loss of power & you can open & close door several times & it works fine then it goes in an stays in for awhile , then it comes out, only other thing Incan thing is a flat spot on motor. I’m gonna replace that & will let ya know , thank for input. 

Your call, but my experience.  The motor does NOT have power on it when it is locked or in the proper position.  It is nothing buy a power window “regulator” or motor.  Current applied with positive to wire A and negative to wire B.  It senses the load or current draw….it then moves to a locked and “in position” state.  Then you reverse polarity and it goes back the other way.  There are no “flat spots”.  This is a permanent magnet DC motor.  The magnets do come loose (double stick tape or adhesive).  If the magnets are out of place….NO MOVE.  Strike it sharply with a large screwdriver handle…and they magnets pop or reseat.  Then you try it….and it works.  The main cause of a “won’t move motor” is three fold.  Bad connection in the harness….number one. Controller bad…. And Magnets not in position….take your choice on which one is next.

A stripped motor is different,  remember the motor has to “lock in and complete the geared movement.  If the plastic gear inside the motor is bad, the motor will extend the steps partially.  Step on the step, it bends like a banana peel and you have to grab hold.  The plastic gear will move it…but then the teeth are stripped, but the motor cycled to the end point.  

NOW, based on your post, ot sounds like the steps are magically and unexpectedly cycling.  If you mean the steps came out and and were locked in place, but then a few minutes later, you tried to use them and they just “folded”, then that IS a gear and  motor issue.

BUT if they just decide to cycle and all the connections and the ignition is not on and such, that is a wiring issue in the switch…or my best guess.  If you test the contacts or mode (Open and Closed) in each position…and they are all right, then there may be an issue in the “door” or mode switch.  That switch lets you choose the mode.  One way…the step never retracts UNLESS the ignition switch is on.  I prefer that…the other way, then the step moves in and out every time the door is opened/closed.  There is also a switch controlling that.  If there is a defective switch or even a faulty connector and the magnet or the door switch says…hey…move….then that is the issue.  Look at the schematic… good luck.

[FLynes]

2 hours ago, Al redcay said:

 

My step goes in an stays in for 5 to 10 mins & then comes out , what does a reverse polarity wire have to do with that , 

No clue, I'm practically nil, when it comes to electrical. I spent the better part of an hour on the phone with the Lippert tech, who walked me through the process of eliminating what it could or could not be. The reverse polarity harness did the trick, and we haven't had a problem with our steps since then.

[Tom Cherry]

43 minutes ago, FLynes said:

No clue, I'm practically nil, when it comes to electrical. I spent the better part of an hour on the phone with the Lippert tech, who walked me through the process of eliminating what it could or could not be. The reverse polarity harness did the trick, and we haven't had a problem with our steps since then.

@FLynes

Did some googling…. Many other sites have comments.  Basically, if the motor is worn and does not “lock” it can “have second thoughts”. But more commonly the usual suspects.  If the motor is not going full cycle, then it “strangely” regrets extending and reverses.  

If you have the PN for the reverse harness, that would be great.  Please post.  Many posts said…the controller that they bought had to have the “magnetic” step position switch “reversed” as the older controllers worked backwards…

 @Al redcay….This is a problem that I can’t remember reading about here before…so some uncharted territory.  If you google enough, the majority is bad connections and water in the comtroller….not applicable with a new controller.. Lippert tech is gonna have to know the exact circumstances and if your magnetic door or extend switch is the right mode for  the new controlled..so, I suspect, you will need the new PN you installed…

 

[FLynes]

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

@FLynes

Did some googling…. Many other sites have comments.  Basically, if the motor is worn and does not “lock” it can “have second thoughts”. But more commonly the usual suspects.  If the motor is not going full cycle, then it “strangely” regrets extending and reverses.  

If you have the PN for the reverse harness, that would be great.  Please post.  Many posts said…the controller that they bought had to have the “magnetic” step position switch “reversed” as the older controllers worked backwards…

 @Al redcay….This is a problem that I can’t remember reading about here before…so some uncharted territory.  If you google enough, the majority is bad connections and water in the comtroller….not applicable with a new controller.. Lippert tech is gonna have to know the exact circumstances and if your magnetic door or extend switch is the right mode for  the new controlled..so, I suspect, you will need the new PN you installed…

 

The reverse polarity harness part number from Lippert is 365884. Here's a link where you can buy it.

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Lippert-365884-Wiring-Harness-For-Kwikee-Steps-p/365884.htm

Edited August 28, 2023 by FLynes

[Guest Al redcay]

I need a motor , can anyone help me with one that’s affordable, I bought one few years back & I was a drivers side Taurus window motor but I don’t remember what yr. Part no from Lippert is 301695  charging up to $300 up . 2005 Monaco , coachstep model scs 

[Guest Al redcay]

I haven’t gotten any replies on this comment.

[Tom Cherry]

29 minutes ago, Al redcay said:

I haven’t gotten any replies on this comment.

Did you complete the testing per the instructions and rule out the magnetic switch?

[Guest Al redcay]

Yes the magnetic sw is good 

On 8/30/2023 at 12:00 PM, Al redcay said:

I need a motor , can anyone help me with one that’s affordable, I bought one few years back & I was a drivers side Taurus window motor but I don’t remember what yr. Part no from Lippert is 301695  charging up to $300 up . 2005 Monaco , coachstep model scs 

Does anyone know where I can get this motor at a decent price 

[amphi_sc]

On 8/30/2023 at 9:00 AM, Al redcay said:

I need a motor , can anyone help me with one that’s affordable, I bought one few years back & I was a drivers side Taurus window motor but I don’t remember what yr. Part no from Lippert is 301695  charging up to $300 up . 2005 Monaco , coachstep model scs 

I have the drawer glide sliding Coachstep version and have use 86-95 Taurus / Sable passenger side window motor from AutoZone or O'Reilly.  #742-277 lifetime warranty.  Doorman #83694 had a 1 year warranty.

[Guest Al redcay]

Ok thanks for info 

[Chipper]

My 2008 Safari Simba step failed when a 300 pound tech stepped on it before it was fully deployed.  Oops.  Just flopping so I tied it off in the retracted position to get home. I replaced the motor then found it was the plastic gear.  I replaced the gear and kept the motor.  The steps failed again several years later for no apparent reason and the RV tech (not the 300 pounder) said it was the controller. The steps would hesitate when deploying or retracting but if kicked, would go to the proper position and stay locked. I replaced the controller which did not fix the problem so I swapped the motor with my spare and all is well.  I will fix the failed motor just to have a spare on hand. I am pretty sure it's the gear again and I also kept the old controller.  Lying on my back under the rig working on the steps in no big deal.  The problem is getting up afterwards.

Chip 

2008 Simba Gas, Jeep Wrangler sport with ham radio antennae.

[FLynes]

26 minutes ago, Chipper said:

My 2008 Safari Simba step failed when a 300 pound tech stepped on it before it was fully deployed.  Oops.  Just flopping so I tied it off in the retracted position to get home. I replaced the motor then found it was the plastic gear.  I replaced the gear and kept the motor.  The steps failed again several years later for no apparent reason and the RV tech (not the 300 pounder) said it was the controller. The steps would hesitate when deploying or retracting but if kicked, would go to the proper position and stay locked. I replaced the controller which did not fix the problem so I swapped the motor with my spare and all is well.  I will fix the failed motor just to have a spare on hand. I am pretty sure it's the gear again and I also kept the old controller.  Lying on my back under the rig working on the steps in no big deal.  The problem is getting up afterwards.

Chip 

2008 Simba Gas, Jeep Wrangler sport with ham radio antennae.

The worst problem for me was trying to fit our new 75lb triple steps into place, and I had no help. I dubbed it Motorhome Yoga, because my legs were in the wonkiest positions, trying to hold those steps in place, while I quickly tried to put the washers and nuts onto the bolts. Motorhome Yoga involves a lot of cussing, btw, it's mandatory.

Edited September 2, 2023 by FLynes

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Chipper said:

My 2008 Safari Simba step failed when a 300 pound tech stepped on it before it was fully deployed.  Oops.  Just flopping so I tied it off in the retracted position to get home. I replaced the motor then found it was the plastic gear.  I replaced the gear and kept the motor.  The steps failed again several years later for no apparent reason and the RV tech (not the 300 pounder) said it was the controller. The steps would hesitate when deploying or retracting but if kicked, would go to the proper position and stay locked. I replaced the controller which did not fix the problem so I swapped the motor with my spare and all is well.  I will fix the failed motor just to have a spare on hand. I am pretty sure it's the gear again and I also kept the old controller.  Lying on my back under the rig working on the steps in no big deal.  The problem is getting up afterwards.

Chip 

2008 Simba Gas, Jeep Wrangler sport with ham radio antennae.

From experience as in a failed plastic gear as well as being a retired safety director, that is a dangerous situation.  My gear stripped.  Looked like the steps (scissors type…but same deal for drawer slide) were locked and deployed.  Opps, my 100 pound GD had to grab the handle.  That would have been disastrous for an sdult, especially past 50.  I bungeed mine closed and then worked on them.  My wife would have hurt herself.  Therefore an intermittent “locks but sometimes NOT” steps are a real danger.  I taught enough preventive courses in trips ans falls.  Even a seemingly shirt fall can be debilitating….

Just a word of caution to keep family and friends safe…

[Guest Al redcay]

It’s still an issue, we have read comments & tested parts replaced controller, door switches & getting motor next, will let y’all know what happens soon. 

[FishAR]

On 8/23/2023 at 2:17 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Unfortunately, it appears that your tech did not follow the manual for both the Coachstep or the Kwikee.  Lippert NOW owns both and there have been ads on many sites for motors that will fit both.  The problem is, you need to understand the FUNCTION and follow a simple  12 VDC testing procedure.  That will then pin down WHERE the problem is.  Motor, Controller, Magnetic Switch or such

Here are Three manuals.  Basically the same.  If you have the sliding tray step (look at the end of the first one...Lippert (Kwikee) Entrance Steps... PDF...then that is one of their 42 or "842" series.  The other deal with the Kwikee and Coachstep, which were basically clones or perhaps one knocked off the other.

So, if you have the two step model where the step sort of pivots out on two bars or straps, then the logic and such is the same. 

NOW....there is also one that is at the end and it may be the CHEAPEST motor to use.  A word of caution...and this comes from HANDS ON...not just reading and then sounding knowledgeabe.  There are a WORLD of motors out there.  On the Swing our or pivot out step, there are three bolts that have to be inserted through the three holes on the motor housing.  BUT, there is a bushing or spaced on either side...  The Motors have die cast housings or frames.  Depending on who measured which motor and tooled up, the centerlines of those holes vary all over the map.  I went through a GUARANTEED...Stamped Lipper Coachnet motor.  Two hours later in almost 100 deg...  I quit.  I find a Stromberg Carlson motor at CW and it was the same PRICE as the Ebay GUARNATEED.  And CW put it on for less than an hour's labor.  SO, I have NO idea if the tech had to take a round rat tail file and open up the holes or knew to drill them out or just assembled it the first time.  BUT, it works.

NOW...the warning about safety goes double.  I am a retired Safety Director and amputations are NOT pleasant. 

BUT, as we age, then there is an even HIGHER risk.  If the motor, like mine, had a stripped out plastic gear inside, it was erratic.  SO...when it went partially out, it would NOT lock.  BUT...  then when you put your foot on it...BINGO, it collapsed.  My 14 YO granddaughter had good reflexes...but, I strapped it inside and bungee corded it for my then 75 YO wife with a failing knee would have been severely injured....always HAVE A GRIP on the inside or outside assist bar.

ONE OTHER TIDBIT...again...  HANDS ON..  The tech may not be the most well informed.  I had a new controller installed.  My tech was GOOD.  But, when I got home....after an hour's drive.  NO JOY.  Called him.  He said.  Get under it and then plug and unplug it a few times.  BINGO...it has worked fine since then...(that was in 2014) and it finally failed in 2021...  NOW., Lowes sells a Gardner Bender Anti-Oxidation tube or bottle in the electrical department.  There is another brand.  NoAlox.  This stuff is like toothpaste with ground up metal aluminum (maybe some copper) fines.  You put in on the contracts (male and female) of the 4 wire connector.  Use a toothpick or a Qtip...Use sparingly and just enough to barely cover or get a few "drops" on...then plug and unplug.  The abrasive paste or "goop" helps clean the contacts.  I would have the tech, at NO COST, try that.  THEN...no JOY...tell him to read the trouble shooting instructions and then TOTALLY be sure before you pop for a motor.  MOST techs know exactly how to do it....so...

 

Lippert (Kwikee) - Entrance Steps Model Kwikee 42 Series Owner's Manual.pdf 1.16 MB · 18 downloads Lippert Universal Step manual pg_2005steptrainpart2.pdf 7.76 MB · 10 downloads Lippert Coachstep.pdf 80.03 kB · 8 downloads CoachStepElectric - Instructions - Stromberg Carlson.pdf 74.81 kB · 13 downloads Coach Step Motor Replacement - Aftermarket Motor.pdf 638.33 kB · 13 downloads

I worked 5 days on and off getting my step motor in. My fingertips are still raw. Could get 2 bolts in but not the 3rd, no matter which order I used. It's obvious they installed it on a bench upside down, alignment was all sky western crooked and impossible to do from underneath. I drilled out the threaded inserts on the motor. No help.

I finally gave up and went in search of longer bolts. I think it was 10-24 (memory) that I thought looked close and bought at rural king. Nope. close but wouldn't even go through the motor.

After striking out at all the lumberyards I finally found long enough 6mm bolts in another town at Ace Hardware and used the original bolts in 2 holes and the longer bolt in the other hole, and it's fixed. I'm still not sure I have the right threads, it didn't seem like it was tightening like I wanted to so I stopped before I stripped it. I can always put a nut and lock washer on the top side since it's longer.

 

Edit to say: The plastic gear in my old motor was broken, but not how I figured it would be. I figured the teeth would be broken off. It was the clover looking part at the bottom of the gear that had broken. On day 3 I almost took the new motor apart and put the gear in the old one, but I got to thinking I might have just as much trouble getting it to line up.

Edited September 7, 2023 by FishAR
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