Patricia Ferrara Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Hello Monaco family! We might be having some electrical issues with our 2008 Monaco Diplomat 41 SKQ. Our Intellitec 50 amp Smart EMS display no longer lights up. The 120 volt line & outlet to the water heater is dead (so we use LP only when needed for showers). And it doesn’t seem that our house batteries are getting charged enough for my husband’s peace of mind. Our float charge readings are between 12.9 - 13.1. We are stationary, full-timers with full hookups, so we have rarely interrupted 50 amp service. We have been enduring north Texas 100F temps all summer, but our house batteries are fluid checked, and hydrometer readings look ok. Cleaned all battery terminals and connections. DH had an RV tech come yesterday that verified dead water heater 120 V line & outlet, but the yellow cable runs into the back wall and goes who knows where 🤷🏼♀️. So… I am wondering if these issues could be related to the blank EMS, are separate random issues, or what else might be involved. Also, links to help a beginner like me understand charging systems, inverters, etc. would be most appreciated! Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 OPPS….EDIT. Jim just made a good point. BEFORE you run the first test…as in turning OFF the Battery Switches….turn on every breaker in the main panel. The EMS gets it bowels in an uproar if a breaker is OFF…NOW do the battery disconnect test…. First things first. Unplug from shore line. Use the two battery switches to disconnect power. Wait at least 30 minutes. Then turn back on the battery switches. Then hookup to 50 amp shore. Did the Intellitec EMS come back to life? This resets the printed circuit board that powers the remote. NO JOY. Kill 50 amp power. Unscrew the EMS remote. It is just a phone cable. Use a Qtip and alcohol and clean the contacts on the remote and the phone cord. Reinstall. Turn on shore 50 A. No joy.. Unplug shore power. Turn off the generator circuit breaker on the main generator panel (pull it out). Now remove the large (tan) cover from the main 50 amp panel. There is a printed circuit board on the right side. It has 2 or 3 wiring harnesses. There is a 3 Amp minifuse that might be hiding behind a harness. Take a picture. Then unplug the harnesses. They only go one way back on. There will be a phone cable (memory…unplug it.) Clean the phone cable and the socket with alcohol. Put in a NEW 3 amp fuse. Reconnect all the cables and make sure they are seated. NOW….use a large screwdriver and tighten every screw in the panel….every last one. They vibrate loose. There will be some larger wires on a printed circuit board…tighten everything with a sire and a screw… Put back on the cover….turn the generator breaker back on. Then plug in and then turn the breaker ON…STILL NO JOY… Either a bad circuit board (the one behind the cover) of a bad remote. They do DIE. FWIW….the only time the EMS works is when you overload like trying to run both AC and the water heater and the batteries are dead and you decide to run the microwave….then it will load shed. Read the manual. Lots of folks don’t use them….so swear bynt(dm. If you know NOT to overload…then on shore, you are find…it ain’t gonna shed. Generator or 30 amp service…that is when it protects you. A tech will (should…and if he says….ain’t never worked on one of these….get rid of him, know how to measure the coltage to,the remote. If it has voltage….bad remote. No voltage…bad EMS board…(one behind cover) The battery charging and the 12 VDC have ABSOLUTELY nothing NADA to do with the EMS. As long as the AC’ run a d everything else works….FINE. No offense to the tech. He should have checked the water heater incoming v9ltage. If there was no incomg voltage (120 V@C), then the EMS either has a bad relay or is defective. IF the outlet or connection to the water heater coil or heating element has voltage…then the EMS is working…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 The EMS uses a couple of the breakers to provide power to the load meter. Are all you breakers on. If not turn them on and see if the EMS load meter lights up. Do you have a wiring diagram for your coach? It might show how the water heater is powered. On mine I have a 12 volt switch that turns the water heater on/off. In my case I have a 6"X6" junction box behind my main panel. The box contains two relays, one for the engine heater which is turned on by a switch on the dash AND a second relay for the water heater which is controlled by the switch in the kitchen. Below is a snap shot of my wiring diagram showing the Omron box & relays. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 (edited) We have a 2008 40 SKQ Endeavor so should be a sister ship. Your charger appears to be working just fine based on the voltage showing. The current is likely just what is in demand by twelve volt systems. The EMS system, which I have tons of diagrams on can be a bit complex and confusing. I will need to look into the schematics and manuals to find out why it is not lit. It should be of course. The water heater is powered via a 12 volt controlled switch that sends a signal to the water heater where it goes into a box that has a relay that passes the 120 volts needed to power the heating element. The 120 volts that feeds the water heater comes from the AC breaker panel in the closet. It comes via the main breaker, then to an individual breaker, then on to a relay board mounted inside the AC breaker panel. This relay is the load shedding relay for that circuit. There are multiple relays on that board. This board should only be in use during 30 amp service. It is basically sitting idle when you have 50 amps as you do now. It is easy enough to measure the voltage coming from the main breaker into that board and then onto the water heater. One needs to know how to use a voltmeter safely of course. The board has a fuse or two as I recall that run the electronics on it. So finding the cause of the dead panel may bring the water heater voltage back online. Your tech should be familiar with the EMS or find one that is. I will gladly share my documents etc. Edited September 1, 2023 by myrontruex spell checking, stupid checking too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 29 minutes ago, myrontruex said: We have a 2008 40 SKQ Endeavor so should be a sister ship. Your charger appears to be working just fine based on the voltage showing. The current is likely just what is in demand by twelve volt systems. The EMS system, which I have tons of diagrams on can be a bit complex and confusing. I will need to look into the schematics and manuals to find out why it is not lit. It should be of course. The water heater is powered via a 12 volt controlled switch that sends a signal to the water heater where it goes into a box that has a relay that passes the 120 volts needed to power the heating element. The 120 volts that feeds the water heater comes from the AC breaker panel in the closet. It comes via the main breaker, then to an individual breaker, then on to a relay board mounted inside the AC breaker panel. This relay is the load shedding relay for that circuit. There are multiple relays on that board. This board should only be in use during 30 amp service. It is basically sitting idle when you have 50 amps as you do now. It is easy enough to measure the voltage coming from the main breaker into that board and then onto the water heater. One needs to know how to use a voltmeter safely of course. The board has a fuse or two as I recall that run the electronics on it. So finding the cause of the dad panel may bring the water heater voltage back online. Your tech should be familiar with the EMS or find one that is. I will gladly share my documents etc. OPPS, I misread that the water heater outlet was dead. When the EMS is dead and not working, it is presumed that all the relays are in the Normally Closed position. That is what allows you to run or have power if the EMS is dead. If the MH has 50 Amps power, then the EMS reads 240 VAC between L1 & L2….and then it does NOT energize any relays. If resetting it doesn’t fix the issue and the fuse is good, then odds are…it has gone out to lunch. As Myron points out, this is a simple system and used on all levels of Monaco. The tech, if he was smart and familiar with the system could have bypassed the bad relay….assuming that the contacts are bad. The steps I listed are the correct ones to eliminate a “out to lunch” EMS, reboot it and check the remote. We need to know when the steps have been completed….then we can help…this also does all the simple things withiut starting to do voltage checks. Let us know what happens after you run the tests. The main thing….all breakers on. Also, if the water heater breaker has slipped out of place snd needs reseating, that could explain the lack of voltage abs vibration has caused that many times… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Ferrara Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 Thanks Tom! We will attempt your instructions to reboot the EMS after the holiday weekend, as we are work campers & the resort will be crazy until next week. I will update you with the results. Oh, and we DID find a slight drain on the house batteries: somehow, the storage light switch by the front door got flipped on (usually, it’s the salesman switch that gets bumped, but it’s pretty obvious when that happens). Thanks Jim! I have located the wiring diagrams and plan to study them after the holiday weekend here at the resort is over. Hopefully, I won’t have to go through the rear wall to get to a junction box or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 Your AC breaker panel is probably located in the closet on the left side and is above the water heater. Access to the wh is via the closet and a cover to access the wh. There is virtually no air circulation inside the closet and the AC breaker panel can get very hot especially with the radiated heat from the water heater living below it. There has been times when I had to open the closet and turn a cooling vent onto the panel to keep one of the air conditoners from tripping. The panel gets so hot the breaker will begin to trip and a lower current. I have a solution for this but will not share it right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Ferrara Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 And thanks Myron! So very nice of you to share the wiring diagram… hopefully, our sister ships are wired similarly (but I have read that every Monaco is “unique”, sort of like fingerprints; also, there’s no telling what upgrades/aftermarket items were installed by the previous owners lol). 6 minutes ago, myrontruex said: Your AC breaker panel is probably located in the closet on the left side and is above the water heater. Access to the wh is via the closet and a cover to access the wh. There is virtually no air circulation inside the closet and the AC breaker panel can get very hot especially with the radiated heat from the water heater living below it. There has been times when I had to open the closet and turn a cooling vent onto the panel to keep one of the air conditoners from tripping. The panel gets so hot the breaker will begin to trip and a lower current. I have a solution for this but will not share it right now. Yes, Myron, the bedroom AC circuit breaker does trip on occasion, which is why we do not turn on the water heater unless we are doing showers. We also leave the closet door ajar to facilitate airflow, resulting in less frequent tripping issues. IMHO, placing the breaker box in this location is a “design flaw”, but what do I know lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allphase8 Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 So when you remove the main circuit panel cover below the panel is a board with relays on it. There is a 5 amp, i believe, fuse there that if blown will disable the display and the function. I would check this fuse a mini auto as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 intellitec ems service manual.pdf Page 13 says to check the fuse on the board that lies on its side inside the AC breaker panel. Its a simple blade fuse. The files shows a 3 amp but the color of the fuse and marking should tell you for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 1 hour ago, myrontruex said: intellitec ems service manual.pdf 308.57 kB · 0 downloads Page 13 says to check the fuse on the board that lies on its side inside the AC breaker panel. Its a simple blade fuse. The files shows a 3 amp but the color of the fuse and marking should tell you for sure. Per my earlier post. The fuse, from Intellitec is a 3 amp. HOPEFULLY no one has put in the wrong size. You can ALSO remove that fuse to POWER DOWN and reset it. BUT, if you do that and put it back in and it does NOT SEAT Properly and you get an "intermittent or On/OFF/ON or whatever circuit, that is very BAD. The EMS will not boot up....think of cutting off the power several times when you start up a PC. The BEST and SAFEST way is to use the Battery Cut Off Switch...and let the unit power down and let all the electronic (static if you like) electricity stored on the board....dissipate. That typically drives the circuits crazy. THEN power back on and you will get a clean bootup or restart. I said to remove the fuse to let everything dissipate...but with the DC power OFF... Good Luck....let us know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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