Full Wall Lippert Hydraulic Slide issues - 2011 Camelot

[96 EVO]

50 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

  I would guess and Ben and Harry might chime in, that the two ends of the slides never gets more a couple...maybe 4" at max, out of "alignment".  and YES, typically, one end will seat...but it is just a fraction of a second and the gap on the other is less than an inch and it just "keeps" moving.

 

Yeah, mine does the same.

Denny, any chance some 'object' got under your slide causing the hang-up?

[Paul J A]

On 9/15/2023 at 11:41 AM, Happycarz said:

I had two Dynasty’s with the hydraulic generator slide before this Camelot. It is so much easier accessing the generator on the manual slide with a quick roll out, instead of holding the button and waiting for the generator slide to extend, or retract.

The key is to make sure you lube the rollers, clean the tracks, and also lube and adjust the latching mechanisms. When I clean and lube my entry door latch and strikers, I do same with the generator slide. Mine moves so easily that I use a prop stick to hold it open if the front of the coach is slightly uphill. Otherwise it will close on its own.

I have cleaned, lubed and adjusted many manual generator slides for friends that struggle to open theirs. It’s sort of a pet peeve with me. Those slides should glide freely.  

 

 

 

What product[s] have you had success with for cleaning, lubricating the manual generator slide components?

[96 EVO]

On 9/17/2023 at 12:37 PM, Denny Wagaman said:

 

Secondly I cleaned the three steel slides that are under the floor exterior of the full wall slide that runs in and out and into and out of a steel sleeve. I have second thoughts today of what I did yesterday  because I removed the grease seemed to be baked on.  It took me several hours to scrape the sometimes crusted grease off. Now what do I do? what grease do I put on those three steel bars? Spraying silicone on the bars isn't the answer.

 

Could you post a picture of these steel bars?

Mine have steel rollers that roll in the square tubes, so, no need for any lubricant in there. ie, they are meant to roll in the tube. Not slide!

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Tom Cherry]

UPDATE....got some PM's... Gist of it.

Still in fact finding mode as to what Lippert says is the FLA of the motor....so that it is protected properly as Monaco goofed in 2009 and we do not have prints for the 2011.

STILL looks like it is a "SLIDE MOVEMENT" issue.  Denny has a "Garage mate"....I guess someone parked beside him in storage or perhaps in his neighborhood.  Retire Aircraft Mechanic & Commercial Pilot...who owns a Prevost.... and will be reading the troubleshooting recommendations and trying to isolate the issues.

Denny has also made an appointment with REV to get them to look at it.

If I get any more information....I will pass along.  So, I guess this one is on hold.

HOWEVER, if any 2010 & up Scepter or Camelot owner with a FWS reads this....please chime in if you have any thoughts or experiences.  My gut says that this is a matter of "hydraulic capacity" or maybe lack thereof....when there is a problem with the slide mechanism... The Motors will run OK, for a while, but when you constantly overload them by not having the proper CB kick in and trip....they eventually just give up the ghost and die....

 

[Goodtimes]

While on the topic of Lippert hydraulic slideout,  does any know the procedure to release the pump pressure so the hydraulic hoses can be replaced? 

Thanks

[96 EVO]

4 hours ago, Goodtimes said:

While on the topic of Lippert hydraulic slideout,  does any know the procedure to release the pump pressure so the hydraulic hoses can be replaced? 

Thanks

I will defer to a member who has had to replace a hose, but, I would think without the pump running, all you would need is a bucket, and the pressure / flow would stop quickly after you unscrew the line from the cylinder.

Can't say I've ever read of any procedure 🤔.

[Goodtimes]

Thank you for reply. No one else added comments, so the bucket method is it.

Thanks

[Tom Cherry]

7 hours ago, Goodtimes said:

Thank you for reply. No one else added comments, so the bucket method is it.

Thanks

You MAY want to read the manual.  You will NOT, if I am CORRECT, be able to drain a line....just by cracking one line or disconnecting it with a BIG bucket.  The oil, unless the pump is working and the valving is correct, be in a "Closed" system.  Think putting your finger over a soda straw and then lifting it out of the cup.  
BUT, if you crack or remove the upstream HOSE, you break the siphon vacuum.  Otherwise....some folks will give it a shot of compressed air.

Just my thoughts and my experience...

[96 EVO]

6 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

You MAY want to read the manual.   

Ok.

What does the manual say?

[Happycarz]

Just put the slide out an inch or so. Or, all the way out and the back in an inch or so. There is pressure in the rams only in the fully opened or full closed positions, so avoid those positions. Anywhere else none, or only a tiny amount of pressure. And, it will drip regardless, with all the fluid in the hose.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Ok.

What does the manual say?

https://www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/manuals/2011_Camelot.pdf

Here it is….don’t know if they cover it…but you can research and find the answer….mine didn’t have that much “technical” info…

[Happycarz]

Paul, do you need a part number or more importantly, the length for your hoses.  Since your coach is a sister to mine, the hose should be the same.  
Mine is a 40’ PDQ with the slide pump in the left front below the headlight. 

[96 EVO]

25 minutes ago, Happycarz said:

Just put the slide out an inch or so. Or, all the way out and the back in an inch or so. There is pressure in the rams only in the fully opened or full closed positions, so avoid those positions. Anywhere else none, or only a tiny amount of pressure. And, it will drip regardless, with all the fluid in the hose.

I was thinking the same!

Depending which hose you are removing, move the slide a bit the opposite way.

Your going to need a bucket, no matter what you do, and as long as nobody try's extending / retracting a slide, the fluid WILL stop!

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Happycarz said:

Paul, do you need a part number or more importantly, the length for your hoses.  Since your coach is a sister to mine, the hose should be the same.  
Mine is a 40’ PDQ with the slide pump in the left front below the headlight. 

FWIW.  The hoses and every component, including the cylinders were supplied by Lippert.  If you pull some tags and such, all Lippert PN.  Monaco provided the “envelope” for the systems.  Then Lippert designed the system….and did the entire bill of materials.  So, the assembly was “kitted” by Lippert.  Then each kit was delivered in a “container” and went to the assembly line as that.  The Assemblers never had to figure out which hose went where snd such….all laid out.  This technique of “kitting” and delivering all the parts to an assembly line is commonplace.

Thus, you need a hose…. Monaco may have stocked a few..but if you could get the Monaco assembly print, it would have the Lippert PN’s.  NOW THEREIN…lies another demon.  Lippert Technical support does NOT have the OEM PN’s for anything,  Parts DOES.  So Parts then looks up the OEM number…crosses it to the Aftermarket PN.  THEN, if you do have that….then Tech Support can look it up and talk intelligently….been down that road….as have many.

[Happycarz]

So, what do you think? Are these Lippert numbers?

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, Happycarz said:

So, what do you think? Are these Lippert numbers?

My gut says yes.  But if you call Lippert tech support, they will not be able to look up and identify….but parts will.  At least that was what I was told…. Whether REV has the items as “replacement” in their data base…..I’d trust my Lottery picks more.  LOL.  

If you chass them down, please post where and how…would help others.  As I said….Lippert told me how the packages or kits were out together and sold.  I was trying to identify my pump assembly and the PN were Greek to tech support.  Then Parts cross referenced and once I had the aftermarket PN & Print and BOM, then tech support could tell me just about anything like the “discussion” of how the harness (36901??) had changed and been revised…

[Goodtimes]

I read the coach manual but found no reference to hydraulic pump bleed down procedure. I don't have the pump manual, Lippert was no help to provide a manual.

So will use methods described above. 

I have the tags on the hoses for the lengths. Thanks for showing those. Will  obtain hoses from a local shop vs Lippert as they don't carry the 3/16 they said.

The most difficult task is to remove the hose from the cylinder mounted over top of fuel tank, can't even see or reach. Have not figured out it was installed with the fuel tank in place. 

[96 EVO]

Yikes!

Guess you will have to decide whether it's easier to remove the cylinder, or the fuel tank .

[Tom Cherry]

7 minutes ago, Goodtimes said:

I read the coach manual but found no reference to hydraulic pump bleed down procedure. I don't have the pump manual, Lippert was no help to provide a manual.

So will use methods described above. 

I have the tags on the hoses for the lengths. Thanks for showing those. Will  obtain hoses from a local shop vs Lippert as they don't carry the 3/16 they said.

The most difficult task is to remove the hose from the cylinder mounted over top of fuel tank, can't even see or reach. Have not figured out it was installed with the fuel tank in place. 

Here you go.  The first one has some info....and the second one was for my NEW pump...  BUT, they are the same for your existing pump.  They come with NO fluid (they LIE...they say FILLED) so the tech just kept pouring in the fluid and then all the air bubbles or entrained air came back to the reservoir...

FWIW, my problem was a low voltage or high resistant connection.  BUT, I never, ever had an issue with air or such....right up until the original motor burned up....

om-hydraulic-slide-out-web.pdf NEW LIPPERT HYDRAULIC MANUALccd_0001617 (1).pdf

[Happycarz]

Sorry, please ignore the hose end fitting label in the picture above. That fitting is in reference to the hydraulic leveling system, not the slides.
 

They might be the same, but do not know.  One would have to check with Lippert, or take the hose to a hydraulic hose store that makes up hoses.

[Goodtimes]

Thanks all. The manuals should be big help (thanks Tom). The fuel tank is larger then the opening, I'm guessing   the cylinder and fuel tank was installed before floor was installed. But not given up, someone out there must have had the same issue and solved. 

[Happycarz]

The fuel tank is larger than the opening. But, the surrounding metal work is easily removed. There are some screws and black RTV holding that metalwork in place. Monaco filled in the gaps with the RTV and made it look like a welded seam. Poke at it, you see what I mean. Once the surround is off, the tank will come out.

I drove my coach to EMPTY. What a scary last trip that was. Then I removed the last 20 gallons. A small inline electric fuel pump with two long hose made the job easy. 

Once the surround is off you will need to mark and take off fuel Iines.  There is one fuel line the goes across the tank from side to side that can remain, but the others will have to be disconnected. Also take an old paint brush to the fuel gauge sender to clean the dust from the top and remove the wires. Take picture and mark the wires.

Take off the bay door gas strut, disconnect the wire connector, remove the hinge ⁵⁄₁₆” screws at the surround flange and set the door to the side  

There are two hold down bolts, one on each side, that you can see on either side at base of tank. Once everything is free put a 12” section of 2 x 6 on top of a floor jack and place the jack dead center under the tank and roll toward you. There are cross ribs under the tank and will allow you to roll the jack only a short distance. Place the 2 x 6 sideways on the jack to get more distance when rolling.  Once you hit a rib, lower the jack and reposition inward and start rolling again. Use one hand pulling the jack and other hand balancing the tank.

Be sure to lube the jack’s moving parts, especially the wheels before using.  And also sweep the concrete, as any small pieces of debris will stop the jack from rolling. 

As you move it out a few feet in steps, you can then reposition the jack toward you and more at the center of the tank again. You will now be at the next clear section between the ribs.  Look underneath the tank to see what I am talking about.  

I did mine by myself, but with a helper it should be a bit easier. I took my tank out and to a welder to have another threaded bung installed for my Fass fuel pump return.  

So, you can remove it completely or just move it out a few feet to gain access to the hydraulic lines you want to replace.  I would think if you were doing both sides it would be easier to remove it completely, instead of removing both surrounds and shifting side to side.  Your call.

 

[Goodtimes]

Happycarz. Wow indeed the issue was experience by another. Thank you so much for the details and photos. I probably wouldn't have noticed the framing was screwed on like that.  This will be a winter time project (Dec-Jan). After the Fass fuel pump install did you experience a improved fuel economy or other benefits?

I will do the same documentation process just incase the Beaver is a slightly different setup.  Off the top of head I don't see the cross members under the coach, appears to be sealed bottem.   

Again, Thank you Happycarz for the details and photos.

[Denny Wagaman]

Update on the full wall slide that stops when going out or coming in sometimes only once then other instances six times.

After discussions with several Lippert Techs and each urging me to have REV in Coburg Oregon diagnose the issue and at the same time work with Lippert Techs (I have a case #) .  The Techs do not believe that it is the pump because one small galley slide works. There was discussion that it could be an air bubble but the pump is supposed to have a self governing air release (my words not the techs) but after the number of times the slide has be worked in and out that shouldn't be the issue.  The pump that is or was in question was installed in May 2020. At the same time there was one hydraulic line that runs to the rear of the full wall slide replaced at the same time. 

Thanks to Tom Cherry for  detailed instructions schematics on what to check.  I admit it is way over my head to do and when friends that are educated and knowledgeable from airline mechanic as well as a large commercial construction company and the time that they have spent so far I have decided that enough is enough.  So To REV I will go another 700 mile round trip and hope that they can find and fix the problem.  

Over the last many years of 4 motorhomes, 2 trailers and 1  pop up VW van I have learned that if you throw enough parts to a problem the issue will get fixed as long as one is willing to keep writing checks.  There are many RV repairman that claim they can fix anything that may be true.  But i have learned that there are many RV repairmen that talk a good story.  Initially I went to REV and they always did well with warranty issues as well as other things that I wanted done.  So I have high hopes.

Thank you Tom and all others who gave their time in order to diagnose what this problem is.  It is greatly appreciated! Denny

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Denny Wagaman said:

Update on the full wall slide that stops when going out or coming in sometimes only once then other instances six times.

After discussions with several Lippert Techs and each urging me to have REV in Coburg Oregon diagnose the issue and at the same time work with Lippert Techs (I have a case #) .  The Techs do not believe that it is the pump because one small galley slide works. There was discussion that it could be an air bubble but the pump is supposed to have a self governing air release (my words not the techs) but after the number of times the slide has be worked in and out that shouldn't be the issue.  The pump that is or was in question was installed in May 2020. At the same time there was one hydraulic line that runs to the rear of the full wall slide replaced at the same time. 

Thanks to Tom Cherry for  detailed instructions schematics on what to check.  I admit it is way over my head to do and when friends that are educated and knowledgeable from airline mechanic as well as a large commercial construction company and the time that they have spent so far I have decided that enough is enough.  So To REV I will go another 700 mile round trip and hope that they can find and fix the problem.  

Over the last many years of 4 motorhomes, 2 trailers and 1  pop up VW van I have learned that if you throw enough parts to a problem the issue will get fixed as long as one is willing to keep writing checks.  There are many RV repairman that claim they can fix anything that may be true.  But i have learned that there are many RV repairmen that talk a good story.  Initially I went to REV and they always did well with warranty issues as well as other things that I wanted done.  So I have high hopes.

Thank you Tom and all others who gave their time in order to diagnose what this problem is.  It is greatly appreciated! Denny

UR WLCM…as my GK’s text.  OK, on the right track.  FWIW….this is what I understand.

Yes, when I asked if the small or galley slide was working, then you said yes….that eliminates a pump motor. That eliminates the solenoid that starts the pump.  NOW….make sure the service writer or REV fully understands that you do NOT have a conventional Slide Controller.  It is a DIODE Matrix.  Print out my post.

The FIRST THING, even if they think they are descendants of Thomas Edison if the 12 VDC signal coming out of the harness (on the Monaco side) that goes to the Lippert harness.  If there is voltage there for the full wall slide - Extend and Retract…..MOVE ON.  Then follow the TWO plugs that go to two Full Wall slide.  They are on the prints.  
 

NOW…since you have a case number….pose this to Lippert, before you leave.   If I recall, the pump runs….and then shuts off.  One thing to look at.  Find the circuit breaker in the FRB that goes to the cable that is attached to the Pump Motor solenoid.  That is easy to trace.  That circuit breaker should have a lever on it.  It is a MANUAL reset.  If Monaco or maybe even an assembler, put is a “self resetting” circuit breaker….so lever, then it could be getting hot….opening up….then cooling off snd then letting you run the pump a little further.  What I DO NOT KNOW/UNDERSTAND….why does the full wall move for most…then shutdown.  I was told by Lippert that there was no thermal overload in the motor….did the tech support at lippert understand that you had partial movement…and then it shut down….but, I thought it would eventually work.  Mine ran slow….but finally got there…