Charging issue I think

[Rowdyrick]

I have a 09 knight and I noticed when the engine running I looked at the Magna screen it shows voltage 13.7. It says DC charger off I don’t remember seeing this before. When plugged in or with the generator on it shows float charging not sure if this is normal or not and of course we are planning on leaving on a trip Sunday any suggestions would be great 

[waterskier_1]

It's reading the voltage of your engine alternator.   Yes,  it's normal. 

  - Rick N 

Casa Grande, AZ

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Rowdyrick said:

I have a 09 knight and I noticed when the engine running I looked at the Magna screen it shows voltage 13.7. It says DC charger off I don’t remember seeing this before. When plugged in or with the generator on it shows float charging not sure if this is normal or not and of course we are planning on leaving on a trip Sunday any suggestions would be great 

Have you read your owners manual…. Probably addressed in sections 8 and/or 9.

Download the manual for the Magna….

 

[Rowdyrick]

I have not but I will the rig isn’t home yet 

[Tom Cherry]

6 hours ago, Rowdyrick said:

I have not but I will the rig isn’t home yet 

There is a section on it a out Chassis Charging.  You have a BIRD system….not as fancy as most.  If the Chassis was fully charged….and House….then all was well and NO charging was needed.  Find the Manual for the Magna and read it….

[96 EVO]

8 hours ago, Rowdyrick said:

I have a 09 knight and I noticed when the engine running I looked at the Magna screen it shows voltage 13.7. It says DC charger off I don’t remember seeing this before. When plugged in or with the generator on it shows float charging not sure if this is normal or not and of course we are planning on leaving on a trip Sunday any suggestions would be great 

If your not plugged into shore power, or your generator isn't running, your Magnum charger is off!

The voltage you are see'ing is from your alternator charging your batteries.

[Rickety Bang]

Similar question, new to me  07 Beaver Contessa, when plugged into 20 amp shore power, magna reads “Charger on standby” but the voltage shows 12.3 volts.  

Is this normal?

[Jetjockey]

On my unit, charger in standby mode is selectable on inverter/converter control panel. Also selectable are the charging modes whether bulk,absorption,float,or equalize. The charging side may just be turned off.your magna manual may explain where to select charging. 12.3. Volts will not fully charge you batteries. 12.3 volts is getting near 50% level of charge. Hopefully someone here will answer you more specifically. Many here have similar coaches as yours
do you have same indications on 50 amp service.?it could be that on 20 amp service the magna shuts off the charging mode as to preserve power for coach . 20amp s isn’t much

Have noticed these systems can behave a little unusually on 20 and 30 amp service

Edited February 24 by Jetjockey

[Tom Cherry]

Suggest that anyone with Magnum questions download and read this file.  It shows the proper setup for the Magnum.

Difficult to trouble shoot without a picture of the remote.  The normal operation is for the inverter snd charger to be ON. That is controlled by the two buttons (INV & CHGR). The GREEN LED’s in the upper left corner should be ON.

If there are issues or where the Magnum seems to be in a FUNK….then doing a SOFT RESET will usually clear it up.  NO AC power ON or NO Genny running.  Hold in the power button on the INVERTER….NOT the remote…for maybe 20 seconds.   Wait a few minutes…..then push the power button ONCE…

Then go inside and go through the SETUP to verify.  

Based on the age, it is NOT uncommon for a remote to die….when that happens….the failure can manifest itself in a myriad of ways. Likewise the Battery Temp Sensor

The first thing to do is, after the Soft reset….and verifying the setup parameters….let it run for a while,  turn off shore and wait….let it invert. Restore  power and see if things are normal.  Then verify the setup.  If all is well with the remote…but the inverter if flaky….then pull the battery temperature phone cable.  Soft reset…..then repeat and kill power and restore it a few times

Using the suggested setup parameters, the SEARCH watts is OFF.  That should keep the Microwave clock going.  If younhave an intermittent blip and lose the microwave, then it can be s remote or battery temp sensor.  

THEN….you unplug the remote as well.  Do the soft restart and powernit on.  Test the operation by switching back and forth from Shore (Genny) to Inverting. The Magnum has a “default” set of parameters….so it should work…but the search watts is ON.  You need to measure the voltage when AC is on at the battery.  Assuming the batteries are down a bit, they should be charging.

There is not a “simple” troubleshooting test that will identify a faulty remote or battery temp switch….you have to eliminate a variable and then test…

 

2 minutes ago, Jetjockey said:

On my unit, charger in standby mode is selectable on inverter/converter control panel. Also selectable are the charging modes whether bulk,absorption,float,or equalize. The charging side may just be turned off.your magna manual may explain where to select charging. 12.3. Volts will not fully charge you batteries. 12.3 volts is getting near 50% level of charge. Hopefully someone here will answer you more specifically. Many here have similar coaches as yours
do you have same indications on 50 amp service.?it could be that on 20 amp service the magna shuts off the charging mode as to preserve power for coach . 20amp s isn’t much

 

Ordinarily the Magnum is always set to 30 A on fhe SHORE setting.  That is based on the circuit breaker in the main panel.  But…IF ON a lesser source, like 20 A, you must set it to that value (20A?),

NOW…if you need interior power for devices, it is advisable to set the charge rate to say 50%. The Magnum needs 1200 watts, in Bulk, to charge….that is half the 20 amps (1200 divided by 12 VDC).. so in low amp hookups, set the shore correctly and back off on the charge rate

[Jetjockey]

Tom hoping you could reply to his issue,

mine is a xantrex sw 3012 .many similarities to the magna. And differences.With a voltage of 12.3 my inverter is going to want a lot of incoming to power the converter side. Will do some prioritizing automatically. But still may need some manual setting adjustment.

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, Rickety Bang said:

Similar question, new to me  07 Beaver Contessa, when plugged into 20 amp shore power, magna reads “Charger on standby” but the voltage shows 12.3 volts.  

Is this normal?

No. Your charger should be charging with your batteries at 12.3V, unless someone pressed the charge off button.

[Tom Cherry]

Read the Xantrex manual.  Disconnect AC & DC (turn off disconnect switch and then pull positive at Charger or house bank).  Let sit for an hour. Reconnect. This should reset Xantrex.  That’s the extent of my XANTREX knowledge 

[Ivan K]

Is there a specific question about the Xantrex? I have the old 3012 MSW and it still works well, outside of SOC reading that makes little sense to me compared to an other meter.

[waterskier_1]

5 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Ordinarily the Magnum is always set to 30 A on fhe SHORE setting.  That is based on the circuit breaker in the main panel.  But…IF ON a lesser source, like 20 A, you must set it to that value (20A?),

NOW…if you need interior power for devices, it is advisable to set the charge rate to say 50%. The Magnum needs 1200 watts, in Bulk, to charge….that is half the 20 amps (1200 divided by 12 VDC).. so in low amp hookups, set the shore correctly and back off on the charge rate

There appears to be some confusion on the SHORE setting.  All this setting does is change how the battery charger operates.  The inverter continuously monitors the AC power going to the Loads (what you have plugged into the outlets and turned on) and the AC power going to the battery charger.  So, for example, if your batteries are needing to be charged, and you set SHORE to 20 Amps, if nothing else is consuming power (nothing plugged into outlets is turned on) then the inverter circuitry will allow max charging (around 10 - 12 Amps input to the charger to get 90-110 Amp battery current).  But as soon as you turn on something pulled into an outlet, the inverter circuitry will automatically subtract that current from the SHORE setting, and the result will be allowed to go to the battery charger.  So, in this example, if we start the microwave, which might take 15 Amps, that amount will be subtracted from the 20 Amp SHORE setting, and only 5 Amps will be allocated to the battery charger (around 45 Amps battery charge current).  All this is independent of what the actual coach shore power is capable of ( as long as it is over 20 Amps).  If the shore power is only 15 Amps, for example, and we try to use the microwave (15 Amp load) and the inverter is set to SHORE 20, then it will attempt to allow 5 Amps to the battery charger.  But that will exceed the shore power capability and something will trip (likely the shore power circuit breaker).  

Now the Charge Rate setting does limit the amount of charge to the batteries, it is not designed to be used when you have a low  (i.e., 20 Amp or 15 Amp) shore power connection.  Yes, it can be used for that, just like a brake can be used to keep a car from going too fast, but it is better to let off the accelerator pedal.  The main purpose of this setting to limit the battery charger, regardless of the shore power availability.  One reason you may want to do this is because your batteries can not accept the full battery charger current (for example, you have only a single LiFePO4 battery rated at 100 A-Hrs and a rating of max charge/discharge of 50 Amps).  The charger may be able to supply 100 Amps, but that would overload the batteries, and the internal BMS would shut down all charging.  Another reason you might use this parameter is if the ambient temps are really high, and the air flow is poor.  You don't want the battery charger to overheat and shut down.  I personally recommend setting it at no more than 90% - 95% for this reason.  You'll not likely notice the difference in charge time, but the charger will run cooler.  Note that the Charge Rate setting is completely independent of the shore power.

Hope this helps understand the difference between these two parameter and the correct usage of each.

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ

5 hours ago, Rickety Bang said:

Similar question, new to me  07 Beaver Contessa, when plugged into 20 amp shore power, magna reads “Charger on standby” but the voltage shows 12.3 volts.  

Is this normal?

Yes, if you have turned OFF the battery charger.  He is the description from your manual (assuming you have a Magnum Inverter/Charger).

Quote

Charger Standby – While the charger is actively charging, press the ON/
OFF CHARGER button to switch the charger to Charger Standby. While in
Charger Standby, the incoming AC is still available on the inverter’s output,
but the charger is not allowed to charge. The LCD displays “Charger Standby”
and the CHG LED fl ashes.
Info: To resume charging, press the ON/OFF CHARGER button or
disconnect/reconnect AC power to the inverter’s input.

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ

Edited February 24 by waterskier_1

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, waterskier_1 said:

 

Yes, if you have turned on the battery charger.  He is the description from your manual (assuming you have a Magnum Inverter/Charger).

   

Well, I disagree!

With his battery bank at 12.3V, his Magnum charger should have automatically began charging when he plugged into shore power!

[waterskier_1]

26 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Well, I disagree!

With his battery bank at 12.3V, his Magnum charger should have automatically began charging when he plugged into shore power!

Corrected my typo.  I think we are in agreement. 

[Tom Cherry]

OK…here’s the way it works..l

FIRST, the Remote must be set to 20 Amp.

Next, if is “recommended” that the charge rate be reduced.

NOW if the AC load starts to APPROACH the Max (20 or 30 A), then the charger SHUTS DOWN so that the House Load gets priority.  That is how it works.  I suspect that is the issue.

NOW…wanta TEST?  Don’t change the Magnum Setup…. Unplug the AC Shore adapter.  Start the Genny.  Then the Magnum should start to charge….probably BULK.

If that happens….ain’t got ENOUGH Juice (Amps) AND….YOU GOT TOO MUCH PLUGGED IN. Set up the Magnum properly.  Reduce the internal load….turn down the charge rate…that should rectify it…

Although, not exactly within the issue here, MANY do not know that they are flirting with disaster, especially with the 7.5/8.0 Genny’s.  When your batteries are dadgum near dead….you want to run BOTH AC’s and DW may turn on the Microwave….odds are…the Breaker on the Genny will pop. So, you need to drive a little, assuming you have a BIRD….let alternator do it’s trick….then turn on the Charger or SET the  charge rate DOWN.

 

[waterskier_1]

21 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

OK…here’s the way it works..l

FIRST, the Remote must be set to 20 Amp.

Next, if is “recommended” that the charge rate be reduced.

NOW if the AC load starts to APPROACH the Max (20 or 30 A), then the charger SHUTS DOWN so that the House Load gets priority.  That is how it works.  I suspect that is the issue.

NOW…wanta TEST?  Don’t change the Magnum Setup…. Unplug the AC Shore adapter.  Start the Genny.  Then the Magnum should start to charge….probably BULK.

If that happens….ain’t got ENOUGH Juice (Amps) AND….YOU GOT TOO MUCH PLUGGED IN. Set up the Magnum properly.  Reduce the internal load….turn down the charge rate…that should rectify it…

Although, not exactly within the issue here, MANY do not know that they are flirting with disaster, especially with the 7.5/8.0 Genny’s.  When your batteries are dadgum near dead….you want to run BOTH AC’s and DW may turn on the Microwave….odds are…the Breaker on the Genny will pop. So, you need to drive a little, assuming you have a BIRD….let alternator do it’s trick….then turn on the Charger or SET the  charge rate DOWN.

 

There is a lot more going on than what I posted.  

First, the we need to understand that the Inverter/Charger only knows the power that is connected to it.  Since we have many other things that are not connected to the Inverter (i.e., Air Conditioners, Water Heaters, AquaHot, Absorption Refrigerators, Block Heaters, etc.) the inverter can't manage those loads.  When I wrote the above post, I was speaking only to what the inverter knows.  That why I specifically stated "OUTLETS" when describing power loads, and never mentioned A/C loads.  The manual states this: 

Quote

3.3.1 SHORE Button
This menu button enables you to quickly change your Shore Max setting to
coordinate with the circuit breaker rating from the incoming AC source.
• SHORE: Shore Max – This setting determines the level in AC amps at
which the inverter/charger begins to back off the battery charger to reduce
the load on the incoming AC power. Whenever the incoming AC is connected
and passing thru the inverter, the incoming AC current that is used to power
the AC loads and charge the batteries is monitored. If this current begins to
approach the Shore Max setting, the battery charger current is automatically
reduced. This ensures the AC loads have all the current that the incoming
AC power can provide.

 Note it says it will "back off the battery charger to reduce ... "  It does not shut is down, unless those loads exceed SHORE Max setting.  It's not a OFF/ON bi-state device. 

If we consider an "active" coach (vs one is storage, for example), then we also need to recognize that the SHORE Max setting doesn't see things like A/C's.  It doesn't matter that you set the SHORE Max to 20 Amps, and then try to run the A/Cs along with other outlet loads (i.e., the microwave) on the inverter, you'll likely trip the Shore Power breaker if you are connected to 20 Amps.  The inverter can only see what runs through it.  It can't (and won't) adjust the battery charger when the A/Cs come on.  

This also doesn't take into account the Intellitec EMS Load Shedding circuitry that some of the coaches have.  That works based upon (as far as I know) only sensing 50 Amp input, or not.  The "not" could be 30 Amp, 20 Amp or even 15 Amp shore power.  The Intellitec EMS only know 50 Amp Shore (or Gen) input or "Not". 

As you can see, the SHORE Max setting does little if you are operating several other AC loads that the inverter can't "see", such as A/C's.  Our coaches require a certain amount of Power Load awareness on our part.   

I'm not sure why the battery charger would perform any differently when on shore power vs generator, with the same SHORE Max setting, and the same loads on the inverter.  The Inverter can not know what the actual shore power capability is, and change based upon changes in the shore power capability.  If it could, there would be no need to have a SHORE Max setting - it would know it already.

  -Rick N.

 

[Tom Cherry]

28 minutes ago, waterskier_1 said:

There is a lot more going on than what I posted.  

First, the we need to understand that the Inverter/Charger only knows the power that is connected to it.  Since we have many other things that are not connected to the Inverter (i.e., Air Conditioners, Water Heaters, AquaHot, Absorption Refrigerators, Block Heaters, etc.) the inverter can't manage those loads.  When I wrote the above post, I was speaking only to what the inverter knows.  That why I specifically stated "OUTLETS" when describing power loads, and never mentioned A/C loads.  The manual states this: 

 Note it says it will "back off the battery charger to reduce ... "  It does not shut is down, unless those loads exceed SHORE Max setting.  It's not a OFF/ON bi-state device. 

If we consider an "active" coach (vs one is storage, for example), then we also need to recognize that the SHORE Max setting doesn't see things like A/C's.  It doesn't matter that you set the SHORE Max to 20 Amps, and then try to run the A/Cs along with other outlet loads (i.e., the microwave) on the inverter, you'll likely trip the Shore Power breaker if you are connected to 20 Amps.  The inverter can only see what runs through it.  It can't (and won't) adjust the battery charger when the A/Cs come on.  

This also doesn't take into account the Intellitec EMS Load Shedding circuitry that some of the coaches have.  That works based upon (as far as I know) only sensing 50 Amp input, or not.  The "not" could be 30 Amp, 20 Amp or even 15 Amp shore power.  The Intellitec EMS only know 50 Amp Shore (or Gen) input or "Not". 

As you can see, the SHORE Max setting does little if you are operating several other AC loads that the inverter can't "see", such as A/C's.  Our coaches require a certain amount of Power Load awareness on our part.   

I'm not sure why the battery charger would perform any differently when on shore power vs generator, with the same SHORE Max setting, and the same loads on the inverter.  The Inverter can not know what the actual shore power capability is, and change based upon changes in the shore power capability.  If it could, there would be no need to have a SHORE Max setting - it would know it already.

  -Rick N.

 

The inverter is SUPPOSED to be TOLD what the shore power amp is.  THEN it calculates and decides just how much it can allocate to charging versus the “MEASURED” demand or load from the plugged in items.

The Imperial in question, I think does NOT have the EMS (Intellitec…would have to look it up)

The earlier ones, the Knight DOES have the EMS. However, that would turn ON or OFF an HVAC system

Now most would assume that one is NOT trying to run an AC…on 20 A…but some DO! If one was running an AC, then, even at a maladjusted 30 Amp shore, the Magnum would shut down.

The manual, and my experience states…”will reduce the charging amps to ensure that the AC loads are satisfied”.  My take on that “will reduce as necessary” statement is… If the AC load is approaching the MAX capacity, there will be no charging…

Again, to test and make this simple.  Start the Genny. If all is well and max charging, assuming no AC’s are on, then the Inverter is working properly.

Reduce the shore to 20 Amps. Then reduce the charging rate to 10%….watch the charging amps…there is a paragraph that talks about doing that in the Remote manual…. 

Until the simple test above is run….then all this is theoretical….  Then post the results…. Thanks

[Jetjockey]

Ems system in my imperial will sense  50amps and then 30 amps as default if not on 50 amp service. If on a 20service it will still indicate 30 amps so you must manually goin and set it at 20. But then my imperial is not the unit ordinal poster was questioning.

I believe the ordinal post question was on a contessa and a knight.

[Tom Cherry]

25 minutes ago, Jetjockey said:

Ems system in my imperial will sense  50amps and then 30 amps as default if not on 50 amp service. If on a 20service it will still indicate 30 amps so you must manually goin and set it at 20. But then my imperial is not the unit ordinal poster was questioning.

I believe the ordinal post question was on a contessa and a knight.

OK...learned something.  The later versions of the Dynasty chassis did NOT have, I THINK, the EMS...  

MYSTERY SOLVED.  You Imperial MUST NOT be an Intellitec MPX system. The Energy Management System was included on the 2005 units WITHOUT the MPX....so I assume you have normal switches for the interior lights and NOT the Intellitec lighted Key Pad switches.

Frank McElroy and I have been trying to nail this down. Monaco was TOTALLY inconsistent. The Dynasty Prints are all MPX...but we have many members with conventional switches...therefore they must use the 2004 or the 2005 Executive Prints....The 2005 Exec prints are NON MPX.  Our 2005 Dynasty prints are TOTALLY MPX.

This is a MAJOR ISSUE as folks will tell members WHAT TO DO and WHAT TO LOOK FOR...but if the member with the issue does NOT have the MPX and the member does...it is totally frustrating...  and Vice Versa.

Thanks for pointing that out.  I was a little unsure...but, assuming you do NOT have the MPX system...you WOULD have the EMS... SOME 2006 Dynasty owners actually put in a NEW main panel with the EMS and added the remote to the "console"... Jack Nicholson's classis line from the movie, The Bucket List was "Never trust a qwer (Natural body function expelling gas)"....one should say.."Never Trust a qwer or Monaco..."  LOL...

[waterskier_1]

Tom, I think I've figured out the confusion regarding the 2005 Dynasty Wiring Diagrams (With an Intellitec House Lighting System) 1.0.0 located in the group files.  I'm not sure why the Cover Page shows 2005, but if you look at all the drawings that had changed from what you are calling the "early" or "previous" 2005 Dynasty, under the DESCRIPTION box, you will see the comment "RELEASE FOR 2006 MODEL YEAR".  These are, in fact, Model Year 2006 Dynasty (and in come cases other models) drawings.  They are NOT for model year 2005 Dynasty.  I don't know when a "model year" changed for Monaco, but that is really immaterial.  Whether the 2006 Dynasty came out in 2005 or 2006 calendar years doesn't make any difference to which set of drawings should be used.  I would suggest these drawings be annotated as having an incorrect Title Page and are indeed 2006 Dynasty drawings.  

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ