Yikes the last 30 miles home - Battery “meltdown”. Comments?

[Lionel]

On the last 30 mile leg home from Texas to Edmonton. Notice ammeter showed 10 volts. Engine responding ok but felt a little underpowered.  House batteries showed 17 volts.  Kept going when home opened the chassis battery compartment and wow vapor and hot batteries.  Washed and refilled batteries and the n starting looking for a solution.  Isolator showed little bit of melting on the resin...figure thats he culprit will replace today and update.  Dont think I saved the batteries but they are taking a charge when plugged in to shore power. Ah the fun or RV'ing.

[Benjamin]

Unless you're in a rush, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions on the isolator. Test the batteries first, if the chassis was 10V and the house was 17, which ones were hot?  if it was the chassis batteries then some cells shorted internally, if the house batteries were hot, that's to be expected at that voltage and I doubt 30 minutes at 17V hurt them.  Get the chassis charged 24 hours, then sit 24 hours and then see what's functioning and not.   If the chassis batteries are shorted, then they might heat up unevenly while charging.  I don't know what you have in that compartment, but I'd hose the whole thing out, water can't be as bad sulfuric acid. 

[Tom Cherry]

Bummer.  Here’s the realities of your situation.

Your Chassis Batteries are toast.  MOST Chassis are sealed.  If so, unless you want to do exploratory surgery, the electrolyte was boiled off.  I THINK you meant the “voltmeter” was showing 10 VDC. They will eventually flake off all the lead oxide coating on the plates.due to being overheated and there is probably some areas above the electrolyte level on the plates that are dry.

Your House needs to be serviced as in replenish the elecrolyte with Distilled Water and hope for the best.

I’m VERY SUSPICIOUS that Your Alternator’s voltage regulator is probably the culprit….unless you had a horrible case of the alternator belt failing.  The traditional approach.  Find a good TRUCK/BUS electrical shop and have the 200 A Leece Neville REBUILT.  Insist that the shop only purchase the parts from Leece Neville and NOT install sftrmarket items.  Do NOT SCRIMP.  Replace all diodes…..testing and salvaging is false economy.  Much cheaper than a new one.  UNLESS the shop is really sharp, an aftermarket replacement is iffy.  Search here for DUVAC.  Use the box at the upper right.  Click on Everywhere and choose TOPICS.  Sit down….it’s gonna be pages and pages….but this is the best information in North America on the Monaco electrical system and LN Alternators.

Don’t waste money on any isolator replacement.  Order the plain Jane Blue Seas ML-ACR and install it.  Forget the “up front” remote.  If you ever need to use the BOOST…  get out…walk to the ML-ACR. Put it in MANUAL as in ON.  Use the boost.  Then walk back and set to AUTO.  Now you will also have FULL TIME BIRD BiDirectional charging….a luxury you do not have now.

THATS MY TAKE….based on the limited information you posted…..more detail?  Maybe be different….but s high probability that the altenator/voltage regulator failed….

Others will chime in with specific questions and assist….but here is where I’d start.  I WOULD put in the ML-ACR….get rid of the early 2000 technology that never worked and convert to a solid BIRD system.

Good Luck….

 

 

[Lionel]

22 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

Unless you're in a rush, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions on the isolator. Test the batteries first, if the chassis was 10V and the house was 17, which ones were hot?  if it was the chassis batteries then some cells shorted internally, if the house batteries were hot, that's to be expected at that voltage and I doubt 30 minutes at 17V hurt them.  Get the chassis charged 24 hours, then sit 24 hours and then see what's functioning and not.   If the chassis batteries are shorted, then they might heat up unevenly while charging.  I don't know what you have in that compartment, but I'd hose the whole thing out, water can't be as bad sulfuric acid. 

Thx Ben looking into it all today.

19 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Bummer.  Here’s the realities of your situation.

Your Chassis Batteries are toast.  MOST Chassis are sealed.  If so, unless you want to do exploratory surgery, the electrolyte was boiled off.  I THINK you meant the “voltmeter” was showing 10 VDC. They will eventually flake off all the lead oxide coating on the plates.due to being overheated and there is probably some areas above the electrolyte level on the plates that are dry.

Your House needs to be serviced as in replenish the elecrolyte with Distilled Water and hope for the best.

I’m VERY SUSPICIOUS that Your Alternator’s voltage regulator is probably the culprit….unless you had a horrible case of the alternator belt failing.  The traditional approach.  Find a good TRUCK/BUS electrical shop and have the 200 A Leece Neville REBUILT.  Insist that the shop only purchase the parts from Leece Neville and NOT install sftrmarket items.  Do NOT SCRIMP.  Replace all diodes…..testing and salvaging is false economy.  Much cheaper than a new one.  UNLESS the shop is really sharp, an aftermarket replacement is iffy.  Search here for DUVAC.  Use the box at the upper right.  Click on Everywhere and choose TOPICS.  Sit down….it’s gonna be pages and pages….but this is the best information in North America on the Monaco electrical system and LN Alternators.

Don’t waste money on any isolator replacement.  Order the plain Jane Blue Seas ML-ACR and install it.  Forget the “up front” remote.  If you ever need to use the BOOST…  get out…walk to the ML-ACR. Put it in MANUAL as in ON.  Use the boost.  Then walk back and set to AUTO.  Now you will also have FULL TIME BIRD BiDirectional charging….a luxury you do not have now.

THATS MY TAKE….based on the limited information you posted…..more detail?  Maybe be different….but s high probability that the altenator/voltage regulator failed….

Others will chime in with specific questions and assist….but here is where I’d start.  I WOULD put in the ML-ACR….get rid of the early 2000 technology that never worked and convert to a solid BIRD system.

Good Luck….

 

 

Thx Tom looking into that system today will follow up.

Cheers
Lionel

[jacwjames]

X2 on the Bluesea ML-ARC install, I did mine ~3 years ago.  The relay itself was a pretty simple install, the switch required me to run wire from back to front. 

I also use a Silverleaf VMSpc monitoring system and can see my alternator voltage.

If I had an alternator failure I can start the generator and the Bluesea will tie house and chassis systems together.   Can also use it as a battery boost for starting.

[Lionel]

Thx James will look into this

[Benjamin]

I agree, I would not replace the diode isolator with another one.  Upgrade to a modern replacement as noted, if it tests bad.  I don't think we can say that yet, the voltage could have been normal expected operation as the result of whatever the failure was, either a battery or wiring issue.  Obviously could have been the isolator also. 

The Duvac system basically means the alternator is reading ("remote sense") the chassis battery voltage after the isolator, and NOT it's own output directly.  That gives a very rough division of the control between chassis and house batteries that could lead to this from a simple failure. 

[Lionel]

Well it was the isolator check pics

BAD ONE show melting below..... good one after...all voltages back to 13.8 THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP....LIONEL

[jacwjames]

When I installed the Bluesea I was able to abandon my BIRD, Isolation Relay, and my Lambert.   

Basically killed 3 birds with one stone😁

[amphi_sc]

Recognizing that Lionel doesn't have the simple BigBoy setup, I would still like to ask: Can the Bluesea internal contacts be as easily cleaned as the BigBoy when the time comes that it gets a voltage drop across the unit?  I carry my spare BigBoy so a 5 minute swap and then at my leisure clean the green off the old BigBoy and have that spare ready to go.  I've debated trying the Bluesea but the simplicity of the existing BigBoy is compelling.

[birdshill123]

Jack James. How did you run a wire from driver's area to the rear. I needed to run a wire from under the dash to the lower outside of the firewall. Could not find any existing boots. There is a removable upholstered panel at the bottom of the lh area  that houses shifter and switches

 

 Nothing. I ended up poking a hole in the boot for the steering column. It was temporary so no big deal

08 Dynasty

 

Edited April 15 by birdshill123

[jacwjames]

I installed 3/4" conduit across the top of the basement compartment and pulled a group of 5 wires back to front.  On my coach I have a plastic box on the firewall covering the brake pedal area, I just routed through there. 

[birdshill123]

Thanks

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, amphi_sc said:

Recognizing that Lionel doesn't have the simple BigBoy setup, I would still like to ask: Can the Bluesea internal contacts be as easily cleaned as the BigBoy when the time comes that it gets a voltage drop across the unit? 

I searched the manual and the website and I cannot find any mention of a cleaning or repair method so my guess is no.

[Tom Cherry]

55 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I searched the manual and the website and I cannot find any mention of a cleaning or repair method so my guess is no.

I’d call Blue Seas.  They are great on specific instructions.  Past that, I cannot recall if anyone has had an ML-ACR long enough to need to clean the contacts.  I SUSPECT that  a latching coil is used.  The Big Boy always turns on and off when you remove AC power….or when you don’t need BIRD charging….so it cycles …

Maybe you can “make me smart”….does the ML-ACR cycle on and off.

The Salesman switch works great for most….as in it Latches IN or OUT.  BUT, it was a poor design.  Folks that constantly turn it on and off have issues.  In addition, it was a bit undersized. Technically, one should shut off ALL DC devices….such as lights and fans and turn off ALL AC items.  Then TURN IT OFF. It works GREAT for Dynasty and up, who don’t use it as a Master Light Switch.  They power all off.  Then they turn off the Battery Cutoff switch….wait….then back on.  That reboots the Intellitec MPX.  A LOT more convenient than going outside and flipping switches….

[jacwjames]

The MLACR latches when power is applied after a short delay.  When power source is removed it closes after a short delay.  But from I see/hear it doesn't continually cycle on and off.

I installed on in the Transit Van I outfitted for my wife, added an extra battery so she could run lights and the exhaust fan without having to worry about draining the chassis battery.  After I start the van and start driving after a very short period the MLACR latches and then unlatches after I shut the van off.  Works great. 

Edited April 15 by jacwjames