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very weird problem on the shower


John C
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Posted (edited)

I got a very strange problem on my shower.

The water is almost dripping on the shower even when I direct connect the city water.

1. I changed the shower stem, still the same.

2. I removed the shower stem, then turn on the water, lot of water coming out - that tell me that water pressure is enough from the water pipe inside the wall

3. I connect a garden hose with adapter, connect to the shower hose, lots of water coming out, that tells me that the are no obstacles between the shower hose and the stem connection.

 

Where is the problem?

 

Please advise.

Thank you

 

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Edited by John C
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I can't be 100% sure without seeing the shower valve uncovered, but it looks like what is in my bus and there is a balance valve in the shower valve that sticks and will need to be replaced.   I had the same problem.  I had to get the part from a large plumbing supply, because wasn't available from Home Depot or Lowes.

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23 minutes ago, Marine Boy said:

I can't be 100% sure without seeing the shower valve uncovered, but it looks like what is in my bus and there is a balance valve in the shower valve that sticks and will need to be replaced.   I had the same problem.  I had to get the part from a large plumbing supply, because wasn't available from Home Depot or Lowes.

Could you please tell me if this is the the balance valve you are talking about? if so, where did you buy it and do you have the part #?

Thank you.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, John C said:

Could you please tell me if this is the the balance valve you are talking about? if so, where did you buy it and do you have the part #?

Thank you.

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Hi John,  No, that is not it.  I did some digging and found a few pictures from when I did my repair.  So the pictures attached are after I removed all of the hardware to give access to the shower valve.  You will see that to get to the Balance Valve(Sorry but it has a different name at the plumbing supply house, that I don't remember), I had to cut clearance to be able to remove the valve.  I do not have a picture of the valve removed.  You will see that there is a slot in the head of the valve which has to be turned to remove the valve.  What I would recommend is get the brand and model off shower valve and do some google searching for parts and how to repair it.  Sorry I couldn't be more help, but my memory on brand and model is lost..CRS.   Feel free to contact me with any other questions.   FYI - I just found the brand of Shower Valve on mine is a Moen.  

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Edited by Marine Boy
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Posted (edited)

It's the mixing valve. Take ALL the parts to Lowes, or H D and they will fix you up. Common.

While you are in there, replace those 90 degree plastic elbows with brass, and the water lines with stainless steel braided type. Once and done. Those elbows fail in time, or are tightened too tight at the build time and crack.

$6K  floor repair taught me that. 

Edited by Paul J A
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FYI - Moen calls it a "Balancing Spool"  and I believe the Moen part number is 1423.   I still recommend to take yours apart before you start buying parts.

Found this youtube video on replacement: 

 

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Posted (edited)

So did you change the whole shower valve?

I was thinking about doing that but I need cut a much bigger hole on the wall than what it is right now

1 hour ago, Paul J A said:

It's the mixing valve. Take ALL the parts to Lowes, or H D and they will fix you up. Common.

While you are in there, replace those 90 degree plastic elbows with brass, and the water lines with stainless steel braided type. Once and done. Those elbows fail in time, or are tightened too tight at the build time and crack.

$6K  floor repair taught me that. 

Are you talking about the elbow between the shower hose connector to the shower valve? I do see a Pex elbow there ( please see attached picture).

If it is, could you please tell me how you did that? Looks very hard to remove the connector from the top part you can't right the connector - very limited space inside and you can only open that much wall otherwise the shower cover won't be able to cover the hole completely.

If not, which one are you referring to?

 

Please advise.

Thank you

 

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Edited by John C
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John; There should be a blind wall on either side of the shower. A wood panel that will have screws in the corners. Have to look for them. Once that panel is removed, you have complete access to the back of the shower stall. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Paul J A said:

John; There should be a blind wall on either side of the shower. A wood panel that will have screws in the corners. Have to look for them. Once that panel is removed, you have complete access to the back of the shower stall. 

Too bad for me, one side of my shower is the tile splashback, another side is the exterior wall...

I will have to remove the cabinet to see what is there

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Edited by John C
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6 minutes ago, John C said:

Too bad for me, one side of my shower is the tile splashback, another side is the exterior wall...

I will have to remove the cabinet to see what is there

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You "could" have a blind wall in those cabinets below and above the splash back. Mine was in the pantry. Had to empty the shelves, take them out and the blind wall was the right side of that interior area.

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3 hours ago, Marine Boy said:

Your layout looks the same as mine and it would be a HUGE project to try and change out the shower valve which is why I did the repair.  Good luck.

How did you do it?

So you believe I need to change the whole valve?

I am thinking about enlarge the opening at Max but smaller than the shower valve cover, hopefully I can put my hand inside, remove the cold/hot water connection and take the valve out.

Any suggestion? Thanks

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4 hours ago, Paul J A said:

You "could" have a blind wall in those cabinets below and above the splash back. Mine was in the pantry. Had to empty the shelves, take them out and the blind wall was the right side of that interior area.

2016-12-23 17.01.25-6.jpg

Mine is different, I will have to remove the granite and the cabinet to see it.

 

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8 hours ago, John C said:

How did you do it?

So you believe I need to change the whole valve?

I am thinking about enlarge the opening at Max but smaller than the shower valve cover, hopefully I can put my hand inside, remove the cold/hot water connection and take the valve out.

Any suggestion? Thanks

So we are talking about the same thing.  The shower valve is an assembly that has many parts.  If yours is the same Moen model that mine is, it's 2 main parts that are in the housing are the cartridge that controls water temperature & volume and the balancing spool that balances the flow.  Both of these parts can be changed from the front without removing the shower valve housing.   If you look at my previous pictures, you can see that you can change the cartridge by just disassembling the handle and front covers.  In the one picture you can see where I had to cut out some of the shower stall to give access to the balancing spool, which I also sent a picture of.  The shower stall is fiberglass and I used a dremel tool with a cutting bit to cut the opening larger.  You should be able to keep the opening small enough so it is still covered by decorative cover.   To remove the balancing spool you need to make sure you have a good thin bladed tool that fits the long narrow slot in the balancing spool to get enough leverage on it to break it loose.  A regular screw driver usually won't do it.  This is a simple job after you have done it once.  Watching the youtube video I previously sent should also help.  Feel free to call if you have any questions (440) 537-2555 John.

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1 hour ago, Marine Boy said:

So we are talking about the same thing.  The shower valve is an assembly that has many parts.  If yours is the same Moen model that mine is, it's 2 main parts that are in the housing are the cartridge that controls water temperature & volume and the balancing spool that balances the flow.  Both of these parts can be changed from the front without removing the shower valve housing.   If you look at my previous pictures, you can see that you can change the cartridge by just disassembling the handle and front covers.  In the one picture you can see where I had to cut out some of the shower stall to give access to the balancing spool, which I also sent a picture of.  The shower stall is fiberglass and I used a dremel tool with a cutting bit to cut the opening larger.  You should be able to keep the opening small enough so it is still covered by decorative cover.   To remove the balancing spool you need to make sure you have a good thin bladed tool that fits the long narrow slot in the balancing spool to get enough leverage on it to break it loose.  A regular screw driver usually won't do it.  This is a simple job after you have done it once.  Watching the youtube video I previously sent should also help.  Feel free to call if you have any questions (440) 537-2555 John.

FWIW.  Technically, if you “fib” to Moen, and sort of hint that you are the only owner of the MH, they will help you identify the valve and the parts you need…. Then they are FREE. But, regardless, they are a great source…

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17 hours ago, John C said:

Mine is different, I will have to remove the granite and the cabinet to see it.

 

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I would take a hard look inside that upper cabinet rear wall. Good luck with the project.

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10 hours ago, Marine Boy said:

So we are talking about the same thing.  The shower valve is an assembly that has many parts.  If yours is the same Moen model that mine is, it's 2 main parts that are in the housing are the cartridge that controls water temperature & volume and the balancing spool that balances the flow.  Both of these parts can be changed from the front without removing the shower valve housing.   If you look at my previous pictures, you can see that you can change the cartridge by just disassembling the handle and front covers.  In the one picture you can see where I had to cut out some of the shower stall to give access to the balancing spool, which I also sent a picture of.  The shower stall is fiberglass and I used a dremel tool with a cutting bit to cut the opening larger.  You should be able to keep the opening small enough so it is still covered by decorative cover.   To remove the balancing spool you need to make sure you have a good thin bladed tool that fits the long narrow slot in the balancing spool to get enough leverage on it to break it loose.  A regular screw driver usually won't do it.  This is a simple job after you have done it once.  Watching the youtube video I previously sent should also help.  Feel free to call if you have any questions (440) 537-2555 John.

Unfortunately my valve is different.

I was thinking about enlarge the hole and take the whole thing out and replace

What do you think?

 

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It looks like if you remove the cartridge from the housing you should be able to slip out the white plastic spacer, so you can get a good look at what shower valve you have.  Then do some research on what could be wrong with it and/or how the plumbing is hooked to it, so you can get a replacement.

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I have repaired many Moen shower valves and the model of valve you have has the balancing spool built into the cartridge.  The valve body itself is very robust and has only the cartridge that wears out.  If you replace the cartridge and still get little or no water out the shower hose then the most likely problem is a restriction to the shower valve on the incoming supply.  This is a pressure balancing valve and needs both hot and cold water supplied to function properly.

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Moen mixer valves have a lifetime warranty.  you can get parts by calling their customer service line:  1-800-289-6636

Contact Us | Customer Support | MOEN

Warranty Information | MOEN

Delta Faucets have the same warranty 1-800-345-3358

Delta Faucet Contact Us Center & Support Resources

Warranty page | Delta Faucet

Sorry I didn't see this sooner!

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I removed the faucet, directly connected the water pipe to an extension, there were quite a bit water coming out.

But when I put the new faucet in, still the same thing, actually it was worse, just a few drops of water coming out!

Now I am suspecting the maybe the water pressure is not enough to push the water to the shower hose connector , but there is one one elbow from the faucet to the water hose connection(the round one) and the distance from the faucet to the shower hose connection is less than 12", I would expect a lot of water coming out from the connector.

One possibility is something block the water flower in the pipe from shower hose connector to the faucet, but I did using a garden hose and ran water from the shower hose connector to the faucet and there were a lot of water came out of the faucet.

I am directly connected to the city water with 40 psi. All other faucet is running fine

Now I am running out of idea.

Any suggestions?

Thank you!

 

 

New faucet.jpg

Old Faucet.jpg

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