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2008 HR Scepter hydraulic slide


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I closed up slides today to take coach to have new steer tires installed.  When I returned home and parked in same spot, went to put slides out to continue working on IPX issues, street side front slide started to go out and then rear of slide stopped moving after about 8" of travel but front wanted to keep going and create a bind.  Retracted and slide came back in normally. Tried again same issue.  Any suggestion on where to start?  I have had slide in and out 10 time since purchasing coach and no issues previously.

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12 hours ago, WilPaul35 said:

I closed up slides today to take coach to have new steer tires installed.  When I returned home and parked in same spot, went to put slides out to continue working on IPX issues, street side front slide started to go out and then rear of slide stopped moving after about 8" of travel but front wanted to keep going and create a bind.  Retracted and slide came back in normally. Tried again same issue.  Any suggestion on where to start?  I have had slide in and out 10 time since purchasing coach and no issues previously.

There is a BALANCING CYLINDER on each side...so you can see the TWO cylinders...but hidden is the THIRD one.  The FIX.

With the Slides RETRACTED.  Fill the Reservoir to almost the top.  THAT is WHEN or how you measure it.

Extend the SMALL SLIDE...  BUT, from NOW ON...do this.  

Push and hold the button (either direction) and keep it IN for maybe 3  - 5 seconds after the slide stops.  You want to hear a definitive Pitch or sound difference in the motor.  Don't hold it for more than 5 second.  Now....retract it...do the same.  NOW repeat that cycle ... say 5 TIMES.  You have now purged all the air in the system and the cylinders and the balancing cylinder has PURE FLUID....not some trapped air.  

Next up....do the big slide.  MAKE SURE the motor home is at RIDE HEIGHT and LEVEL.  You MAY need to use some Slide Lube on the parts, underneath...especially the nylon ramps or pad...  The BIG slide is the only one that has them.  

Cycle it several time.  THAT should do it.

NOW...for future use.  Always HOLD IN the button and hear the PITCH change.  ODDS are.. Trapped AIR.  It will SELF PURGE...no need to panic and drain and such.  That is the DESIGN.  Now how MANY cycles...  Who KNOWS?  Depends on the air.

BUT, if you hold it in and hear the pitch change EVERY TIME you extend or retract....they will be fine.  I have an unbelievable number of cycles on mine and all is well.

Let us KNOW.

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Thanks Tom.  I will address this after work today.  Might be able to travel in this thing yet.

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Well, that started to work.  Checked fluid in reservoir with slides in...good.  Ran curb side in and out several times, held button until squealing each direction.  Ran street side out until starting to bind then back in holding button until squeal.  Did this a couple of time and then nothing.  No action with either slide button.  Went down to pump and checked breaker, not tripped.  Checked for 12V to pump, had it there.  Removed cable to pump, clean up connections and reconnected, still nothing.  Ran out of time and help to proceed last evening.  Tonight with assistance going to see if pump is getting voltage across solenoid when buttons are pushed.  One step forward, one step back with this thing it seems.  I just love owing A RV. (Always repairing vehicle). 

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Does your street side front slide have the two plastic / teflon runners screwed to the underside?

If so, you may want to check the condition of those. Mine were crumbling about 5yrs ago. 

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AS DID MINE.  I reolaced mine with the Talin RV guardian plates.  Mine never caused the total out of sync situation as described.  Check the fluid level.  Operate and purge any trapped air.

THEN start to dig deeper.  This is the cause of 80% or more of the imbalance or out of syn conditions.

YES….inspect the underside and lube. BUT if the nylon strips are cracking snd such, order Talin Plates and fix properly….once and for all….you do NOT want to damage the underside or underlayment of the slide.  It is part of a vacuum formed sandwich and repairs are difficult and very exoensive.

Preventing damage is the key…

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2 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

AS DID MINE.  I reolaced mine with the Talin RV guardian plates.  Mine never caused the total out of sync situation as described.  

I could see a chunk of that runner breaking off and getting wedged in there.

I also removed mine and installed Guardian plates.

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Slide bottoms appear in good shape, topic for another day.  Right now I have a pump issue it appears.  Was moving curb side slide in and out just fine, and was working on purging any trapped air as Tom had suggested.  Road side slide started to go out evenly after running in and out a short distance a few time. When slide was out about 8" everything stopped. Neither side would now do anyrhing.  Checked voltage to pump, 12V present. Disconnected and cleaned 12V supply to pump solenoid.  Solenoid clicks when slide control is depressed.  Noticed odd light when pushing extendcside of either switch, pulled control panel out and found a tailight bulb wired in. (see attached pictures).  Not sure what to think of that, does not look factory.  When pump was working did not see any illumination behind control panel from that light, just after pump stopped.

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No, I don't believe that's factory either!

I've been behind that panel on mine. No bulb back there!

So, when the slide stops moving, the hyd pump stops spinning?

Edited by 96 EVO
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2 hours ago, WilPaul35 said:

Slide bottoms appear in good shape, topic for another day.  Right now I have a pump issue it appears.  Was moving curb side slide in and out just fine, and was working on purging any trapped air as Tom had suggested.  Road side slide started to go out evenly after running in and out a short distance a few time. When slide was out about 8" everything stopped. Neither side would now do anyrhing.  Checked voltage to pump, 12V present. Disconnected and cleaned 12V supply to pump solenoid.  Solenoid clicks when slide control is depressed.  Noticed odd light when pushing extendcside of either switch, pulled control panel out and found a tailight bulb wired in. (see attached pictures).  Not sure what to think of that, does not look factory.  When pump was working did not see any illumination behind control panel from that light, just after pump stopped.

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NOPE….nothing like that.  OK….back to basics.

First…verify that the resettable circuit breaker in the FRB is an 80A.  Print calls for that.  In 2009, Monaco goofed…150A.  Told Lippert that and the paniced…

Next up.  Look at Pump motor.  Pull the nuts ans cables off.  Tighten up, snugly, the lock nut on each stud.  The stud is like a carriage bolt.  If it is loose…mega high resistance connection.  Yes…I spent at least 5 years chasing a ghost.  
 

NOW….behind the panel.  There is a harness that comes from the switches.  This whole DIODE scheme or scenario has been debated, then finally debunked here.  Pull my 2009 Camelot prints….all the same as yours.  There is a front slide print.  On the print, you will see a diode matrix.  The diodes prevent backfeeding of the switches.  Lippert had 3 different part numbers.  That harness is the one that mates up with the multi-pin connector on the pump package harness.  That “Lippert” interface harness contains the diodes.  We have had members cut theirs apart…and they were differnt…so they said….you have wrong.  Lippert flipped and flopped.

Bottom line, very FEW techs even KNOW about this harness.  Some have had a whole NEW pump package ( reservoir, base, solenoids, big solenoid, etc) put in.  OPPS….the old one was FINE. The harness that was the issue

OK….here’s the skinny….

https://www.monacoers.org/search/?q=Lippert diode&quick=1&type=forums_topic

I really WONDER what the light is.  BUT…if you use my 2009 print and follow the circuit and test.  The switches are simple.  Both are momentary contact.  As long as you have the 12 VDC, which is controlled by a Lockout relay, then each switch sends out 12 VDC.  Those 4 signals are NOT used nor should be used behind the control panel.  The Lippert adapter harness is at the pump…and the gory details are in one or both of the two topics….

Print out the circuit….the test and mark the print.  This is wild….Maybe a downstream bad diode….and they compensated with a bulb…which is acting as a resistor to block the feedback.  Any OTHER bulbs in there….if a “real genius” did this and one of the bulbs burned out….replace it.  WILD!!!

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Still trouble shooting.  Found that add-on light was installed with a scotchlock between the brown going to pump after diodes and the white on the system heat switch. Definately added somewhere after the factory.  Red heatshrink around both sets of diodes has been cut open, so apparently not first time with this problem.  

Will continue to update on progress...slow going with other time commitments.

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  • Solution

Pump is not running now.  It had been running and slide was going out crooked. Retracted fine, cycled both sides as mentioned before and then pump stopped and that odd light started to illuminate. 

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Posted (edited)

Ok more info.  12.2V DC to pump solenoid.  Activate switch either direction for either slide have 12.2V across  pump solenoid and to pump motor,  can hear control valves click and motor does not run.  Next step is going to pm all contacts, getting road grime cleaned up from pump and harness, clean up power cables and test again.  Starting to think pump motor has died.

Edited by WilPaul35
typo
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40 minutes ago, WilPaul35 said:

Ok more info.  12.2V DC to pump solenoid.  Activate switch either direction for either slide have 12.2V across  pump solenoid and to pump motor,  can hear control valves click and motor does not run.  Next step is going to pm all contacts, getting road grime cleaned up from pump and harness, clean up power cables and test again.  Starting to think pump motor has died.

Phone conversation with Paul.  Went over the places that mine had issues.  He has great grasp of the system.  Neither of us know why the idiot light.

He will get all connections checked and cleaned and then will do some direct 12 VDC connecting to see if the issue is burned contacts in solenoid or bad motor.

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May not be applicable here but on ours, all the controls, valves and motor relay run on house batteries except the pump motor that needs chassis power. It comes from the same post in FRB where generator gets its power also. Just a thought in case the chassis batteries were disconnected. 

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2 hours ago, WilPaul35 said:

Ok more info.  12.2V DC to pump solenoid.  Activate switch either direction for either slide have 12.2V across  pump solenoid and to pump motor,  can hear control valves click and motor does not run.  Next step is going to pm all contacts, getting road grime cleaned up from pump and harness, clean up power cables and test again.  Starting to think pump motor has died.

That's quite possible!

It was common on those years hyd pumps for the seal to fail between the pump and motor, and the motor windings to get soaked with ATF.

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2 hours ago, WilPaul35 said:

Ok more info.  12.2V DC to pump solenoid.  Activate switch either direction for either slide have 12.2V across  pump solenoid and to pump motor,  can hear control valves click and motor does not run.  Next step is going to pm all contacts, getting road grime cleaned up from pump and harness, clean up power cables and test again.  Starting to think pump motor has died.

I had to remove my pump motor a year or two ago and give it a good cleaning.   The brushes were getting stuck in the brush holder and not engaging.   You just need some q-tips and alcohol, make sure the brushes can move freely in the holders and put it back together.   

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update:  After some additional troubleshooting determined that issue is the motor.  Removed motor from hydraulic unit to inspect.  First thing I noticed was a burned electrical smell.  Disassembled motor and found brushes out of holders and damage to the armature.  May see if rebuildable, but damage is pretty severe.  Ordered a replacement motor from Western Motor Service in Rockford IL.  $395 plus shipping. Should be here tomorrow, will update again when installed.

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Just now, WilPaul35 said:

Update:  After some additional troubleshooting determined that issue is the motor.  Removed motor from hydraulic unit to inspect.  First thing I noticed was a burned electrical smell.  Disassembled motor and found brushes out of holders and damage to the armature.  May see if rebuildable, but damage is pretty severe.  Ordered a replacement motor from Western Motor Service in Rockford IL.  $395 plus shipping. Should be here tomorrow, will update again when installed.

Great.

My only advice...  You need to do the FLA Voltage Drop Tests to determine is the motor just "BURNED UP" as in bad brushes...  Or the Locking Nuts on the Studs were LOOSE... OR there is a voltage drop in the line from the 200 Amp Breaker to the 80 Amp resettable circuit breaker or in the Solenoid. 

Finding the CAUSE or simply DOING the FLA Voltage testing after you put the new motor in will ensure that you don't have another failure.

PM or call me if you need details on how that is done.  TRUST ME...it WORKS...

Thanks for the feedback.

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Final update.  Turned out to be a combination of issues all mentioned in this string of comments.  1st the root cause of the issue with the slide imbalance was one of the plastic guides broke and was binding up the rear of the slide.  Had looked at them when we purchased coach, didn't look too bad so hadn't done anything with updating them yet...looks like that has moved up on thr list.  At the same time the motor on the hydraulic pump failed.  Determined that motor had some hydraulic fluid in it causing failure.  Tested votlage while pump was running after cleaning and tightening connections and had 13.V with batteries fully charged.  Now that slide rooms work again I can continue the other repairs. Back to the multiplex issue and now gaurdian plates and rebuilding hydraulic pump.  The joys of owning a rv. (Always Repairing Vehicle). 

Thanks for all of the input!  Paul

Edited by WilPaul35
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5 minutes ago, WilPaul35 said:

Final update.  Turned out to be a combination of issues all mentioned in this string of comments.  1st the root cause of the issue with the slide imbalance was one of the plastic guides broke and was binding up the rear of the slide.  

Yep, mentioned that in my first post.

Glad you got it sorted!

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