Stumped - wiring New P2 to new 5 button board

[Perpendicular]

I am at a stopping point and need to stand back and figure out what I am missing.

 

I am installing a Penguin II unit and a new control board to utilize my 5 button thermostat. 

New circuit board seems straightforward but it isn't to me right now.  I am hoping I can get someone's experience from their install. 

 

It says I should connect one of the reversing wires (Purple or black) to the new circuit board. Does that mean I take it off of what looks like a starting capacitor and bypass it now?

The wires from what looks like the reversing valve is violet, white and blue.

It also states next to cut terminal from end of remaining reversing valve wire (I have 2 left white and blue) and strip 1/2" of insulation

Next cut terminal from end of thick white wire and strip 1/2 insulation (where is this wire, from the reversing valve or from the start capacitor, or?).

Next - connect thick black white  wire and renaming violet or black wire. Where is this wire?

 

So I don't have some of these wires, and I am still missing a white connector that was  in the old unit. There are 2 small white wires with a white connector on the original unit that I cannot figure where they go on the new one. 

I am guessing i dont have the right paperwork but maybe I am over thinking it.

Has anyone run across  an of this and can share some advice?

Thanks in advance.

[Guest Cruzbill]

If you decide to go this way, the CCC2 t-stat is easier to use, I think, than the 5 button. I think your next call is to Dometic.  Make sure to give them serial #s for control boards and the Penguin unit itself. 

[Perpendicular]

I would like the CCC2 - but I would still have an older unit in the bedroom that utilizes the 5 button.

[throgmartin]

Paul:

Your best bet is to have my tech Dustin talk you through the install. Calling Dometic is going to be a frustrating experience. All of their tech support and customer service employees are working from home. Our calls to them have resulted in hours of being on hold. Leaving messages may get you a call back or may not. Their response time can be days. Our last call took a week to get a response.

Dustin has done numerous installs in the last couple weeks and can talk you through the process. If you will send me your number in a private message I can have him call you on Monday. He has a full day and is actually installing a new Penguin II on a Dynasty on Monday. He is very good about calling our customers and will phone you when he gets a break.

I should mention we are finding a lot of misinformation on these new Penguin II units which is coming from Dometic. Since the Pandemic , getting any support from them, even as a dealer is next to impossible. The other problem is once you spend days reaching them, that employee probably wont have a clue. Drop me your number and Dustin will call you and talk you through the install process. Until then it would probably be a good idea not to cut wires or experiment. I would leave it alone.

[Perpendicular]

Hi Chris  -

 

First - thank you very much for taking the time on this and for offering assistance! 

 

I will send the number in a PM shortly.

 

Have a great weekend!

 

-Paul

[throgmartin]

Paul, you are very welcome.

I posted about the Penguin II install a week or so ago. I am going to update that post once I meet with Dustin on Monday. He is doing some testing and using a different configuration on a Penguin unit and then will give me the straight scoop. We got some bad information from Dometic on the boards and a tech bulletin we got from our supplier was wrong.  This is an ongoing problem in the RV Industry - bad info being sent by the parts manufacturers. Last year I had a conference call with a product manufacturer's engineering team. After arguing for 30 minutes they finally agreed their wiring instructions were wrong. They had to go back and re-write their instruction booklet.

We deal with a lot of manufacturers daily, weekly and monthly. Some of these companies we are either dealers for or manufacturer rep's for. I can tell you with certainty that Dometic is one of the worst. They were not fun to deal with before Covid and are now horrible.  I met with one of their company directors last year and asked him about getting into a different tier in their dealer network. He looked me right in the eye and he said " I wouldn't. If you think dealer support is bad now, wait till you see the changes they are making in the future ". Pretty sad when a company official tells you to stay clear of their dealer program.

They make some good products and I believe in their Penguin II units but they have gotten so big and their operations so spread out, support is in the toilet.  Thank God we have a tech who knows his stuff so we do not have to rely on their tech support.

 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, throgmartin said:

Paul, you are very welcome.

I posted about the Penguin II install a week or so ago. I am going to update that post once I meet with Dustin on Monday. He is doing some testing and using a different configuration on a Penguin unit and then will give me the straight scoop. We got some bad information from Dometic on the boards and a tech bulletin we got from our supplier was wrong.  This is an ongoing problem in the RV Industry - bad info being sent by the parts manufacturers. Last year I had a conference call with a product manufacturer's engineering team. After arguing for 30 minutes they finally agreed their wiring instructions were wrong. They had to go back and re-write their instruction booklet.

We deal with a lot of manufacturers daily, weekly and monthly. Some of these companies we are either dealers for or manufacturer rep's for. I can tell you with certainty that Dometic is one of the worst. They were not fun to deal with before Covid and are now horrible.  I met with one of their company directors last year and asked him about getting into a different tier in their dealer network. He looked me right in the eye and he said " I wouldn't. If you think dealer support is bad now, wait till you see the changes they are making in the future ". Pretty sad when a company official tells you to stay clear of their dealer program.

They make some good products and I believe in their Penguin II units but they have gotten so big and their operations so spread out, support is in the toilet.  Thank God we have a tech who knows his stuff so we do not have to rely on their tech support.

 

Chris,

Thanks for sharing with us.  Many of the posters have done the conversion.  I talked to Dometic at length and posted the parts and such for information as a Moderator on the OLD SITE....  If you can give us some feedback on the following, it would sure be great.  I posted that on the OLD board so it it gone.  What I and others understood and you or Justin can correct that.... is this

• You can NOT use a new 12 Button Dometic T'Stat and make it work with one NEW Penguin and one OLD Penquin.... (OK....some folks say they have done this....but I am not gonna state that it works).  Dometic says you can NOT "SMARTEN UP" or make the OLD AC's work with the "SMARTER" 12 Button T'Stats.  SO you either replace ALL and go with the NEW 12 Button....or you stick with the OLD 5 Button and you have to MODIFY the NEW unit....
• Dometic says to USE the OLD 5 Button T'State.....and you will need a "NEW CONTROL" board.   These are available on Amazon....  They USED to be in the $100 range....but they have gone up.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JF2CXH2/ref=dp_cerb_1  NOW.....the caution here is to PHOTOGRAPH and Document to NEW UNIT.  When the OTHER AC fails, you will probably spend the $150 for ANOTHER module (conversion) and put in the NEW 12 Button T'stat.  That is cheaper....and THEN you have to put back in the NEW board and revise the wiring....
• You have to "REPLACE" the NEW Penquin Control Board with the NEW control board.  Dometic calls this...."DUMBING DOWN" the new HVAC unit so that it works with the old DUMB 5 button T'stat.  The YouTube below details that.  That is the MOST confusing part of the conversion.  AGAIN....Take PICTURES.  KEEP THE NEW BOARD (the one you removed).  You will need it WHEN (not IF) you replace the OTHER(s) AC Units.
• Here is a YouTube Video that they recommended or maybe said....Go TO YOUTUBE.....it is explained there.  

 

Dometic says....ONCE AGAIN....that you must replace ALL of the HVAC units if you want the NEW 12 Button Thermostat.

Thanks for all you help and assistance on this.  This is timely as more and more of the old units (mine will fail also) are going out.  Frank McElroy, "Mr. Parts List Guy" might be able to add this to the Parts List.  

 

[Perpendicular]

In my quest I have learned something. Does anyone see a reversing valve in this schematic? 

 

 

So maybe, just maybe, I am even further confused.  If no Reversing Valve, can I skip that part of the install wiring configs?

 

 

[jacwjames]

Do you have the model and SN of your AC unit. 

It may not have a reversing valve if it is not a heat pump.

[Perpendicular]

BINGO - it is not a heat pump, just a 15K AC. I thought about a HP but with the AquaHot I decided against it.

 

 But now I am even more lost. I am guessing then I do not do anything but move the wires over and ignore the directions on what they refer to the reversing valve, except the yellow I remove and cap off.

 

Soooooo I am making too much of this if that is the case and over thinking it.

 

Is it that simple?

[jacwjames]

In a case like this I would probably try to contact the manufacturer and get confirmation. 

Maybe someone else will chime in.

[throgmartin]

Paul:

Jim is right. If it is a straight AC unit with no heat pump it will NOT have a reversing valve.  The reversing valve is strictly a heat pump/AC function.

Since you have a straight AC system then you will move your wires and go from there. You have Dustin's number so give him a call and confirm it with him. All of the Penguin II AC units we have changed out in the last couple months had heat pump functions.

[Tom Cherry]

7 hours ago, Perpendicular said:

BINGO - it is not a heat pump, just a 15K AC. I thought about a HP but with the AquaHot I decided against it.

 

 But now I am even more lost. I am guessing then I do not do anything but move the wires over and ignore the directions on what they refer to the reversing valve, except the yellow I remove and cap off.

 

Soooooo I am making too much of this if that is the case and over thinking it.

 

Is it that simple?

That sounds logical to me.  but,, there is NOTHING out there of doing a NON HP (AC ONLY) to the conversion.  

However, if you call 800 Dometic, you WILL then get a person....  You just keep hitting ZERO and # when they ask for an account number......then you will have to be transferred to Consumer Tech Support.  All the data sheets on what I THINK you have, say HP.  OPPS....  If you go back to your ORIGINAL AC PN, and have the instructions.....does it have a PN for the Conversion Kit.... 

Dometic 3313107.107 CCC2 to CCC 12 Button to 5 Button Heat Pump Conversion Kit RV Parts

If you have this, then you will, most likely, have to wait in line and talk to Dometic.  That unit specifically says it is for a HP Conversion.  I don't know what else to suggest.....but the Dometic Techs have been helpful in the past....

[Perpendicular]

Update and final post about my issues unless questions 🙂

 

Lets start form the beginning. I ordered and received the following part #'s

Control Board - 3313107.107

Penguin II 641816C751C0 AC unit - non-heat pump, Hi Cap (15K)

This to replace failing Duo-Therm 991760360 connected to a 5 button thermostat. It is setup to connect to a 10 button with it's original control board.

 

The control board I bought is for my 5 button and controls heat pumps as well according to the dealer so they send along handwritten instructions saying to just not hook up the red wires. Sounds simple.

The control board had detailed instructions on how to hook everything up - to include wiring the reversing valve - which I do not have. I learn those are only on units with a heat pump. Makes total sense to me _now_.

 

So, the install took me quite a bit longer because I was not sure why my wires were different colors that what the detailed instructions offer. I had the unit up and ready to go but stopped and posted this thread in hopes of not harming any of the pure gold new AC unit. Gold to me anyway as my better half would not go anywhere without some cold in this heat 🙂 And finding one I could get was a challenge right now.

 

Anyway, the install could not have been simpler. You swap out the ambient sensor that is on the outside then move wires from one board to the other installing them in the same location (I.E. Red to Red marked locations, Black to Black location, etc. There is an additional white (ground) wire on the original board that is extra so you simply unplug it from the large capacitor and put it away with the board for later use if you go to a 10 button. Cut and cap off the yellow wire as this is for medium speed - the 5 button doesn't do that. 

 

Then on to inside. When I removed the original unit there were two blue wires out of the 2 blue, 2 red and 2 yellow that were connected along with the phone cables. Leave the Red and Yellow disconnected like before, hook up the two blues and hook up the 120v in the electrical box.

 

Put everything back together and power up the coach.

 

Reset your thermostat (press and hold top button and bottom button at the same time while you turn on the switch until you see FF on the screen) and kick the new unit on. 

 

Notes:

I replaced my drip pans and the new instructions say to double up on the foam so I did. Original unit was not that way so the new one is about an inch further away from the ceiling. I am telling you this because the air diverter you took off inside needs to be extended so it can close off that area and divert the air to the ducts. 

If you do not have any, buy the metal foil tape before you start so you can clean up any air leaks at the diverter, etc. Just cleaning up the area and resealing up gaps will help the efficiency. 

The new unit fan kicks on almost immediately after hitting the switch in comparison to my older units that waited minutes before kicking on. That was a nice change.

The new unit appears to be quieter overall. I think this is partly due to the unit is no longer resting on the roof and now has extra foam between it and the surface. That and it was new 🙂

Go to Home Depot and rent their lift to get the old unit down and the new unit up. It was $85 for 24 hours and it makes the install so one person can do it alone without risks associated with sliding it on a ladder, etc. 

Take Pictures - of everything! Use your phone and take pictures of every step. Every movement of wire. This will make questions much easier to answer when putting things back together. 

 

I want to thank Chris and Dustin again - they were incredible and generous with their time and I will be eternally grateful to them both!

 

Welcome to August heat, going to utilize the AC to the fullest next weekend!

 

-Paul

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, Perpendicular said:

Update and final post about my issues unless questions 🙂

 

Lets start form the beginning. I ordered and received the following part #'s

Control Board - 3313107.107

Penguin II 641816C751C0 AC unit - non-heat pump, Hi Cap (15K)

This to replace failing Duo-Therm 991760360 connected to a 5 button thermostat. It is setup to connect to a 10 button with it's original control board.

 

The control board I bought is for my 5 button and controls heat pumps as well according to the dealer so they send along handwritten instructions saying to just not hook up the red wires. Sounds simple.

The control board had detailed instructions on how to hook everything up - to include wiring the reversing valve - which I do not have. I learn those are only on units with a heat pump. Makes total sense to me _now_.

 

So, the install took me quite a bit longer because I was not sure why my wires were different colors that what the detailed instructions offer. I had the unit up and ready to go but stopped and posted this thread in hopes of not harming any of the pure gold new AC unit. Gold to me anyway as my better half would not go anywhere without some cold in this heat 🙂 And finding one I could get was a challenge right now.

 

Anyway, the install could not have been simpler. You swap out the ambient sensor that is on the outside then move wires from one board to the other installing them in the same location (I.E. Red to Red marked locations, Black to Black location, etc. There is an additional white (ground) wire on the original board that is extra so you simply unplug it from the large capacitor and put it away with the board for later use if you go to a 10 button. Cut and cap off the yellow wire as this is for medium speed - the 5 button doesn't do that. 

 

Then on to inside. When I removed the original unit there were two blue wires out of the 2 blue, 2 red and 2 yellow that were connected along with the phone cables. Leave the Red and Yellow disconnected like before, hook up the two blues and hook up the 120v in the electrical box.

 

Put everything back together and power up the coach.

 

Reset your thermostat (press and hold top button and bottom button at the same time while you turn on the switch until you see FF on the screen) and kick the new unit on. 

 

Notes:

I replaced my drip pans and the new instructions say to double up on the foam so I did. Original unit was not that way so the new one is about an inch further away from the ceiling. I am telling you this because the air diverter you took off inside needs to be extended so it can close off that area and divert the air to the ducts. 

If you do not have any, buy the metal foil tape before you start so you can clean up any air leaks at the diverter, etc. Just cleaning up the area and resealing up gaps will help the efficiency. 

The new unit fan kicks on almost immediately after hitting the switch in comparison to my older units that waited minutes before kicking on. That was a nice change.

The new unit appears to be quieter overall. I think this is partly due to the unit is no longer resting on the roof and now has extra foam between it and the surface. That and it was new 🙂

Go to Home Depot and rent their lift to get the old unit down and the new unit up. It was $85 for 24 hours and it makes the install so one person can do it alone without risks associated with sliding it on a ladder, etc. 

Take Pictures - of everything! Use your phone and take pictures of every step. Every movement of wire. This will make questions much easier to answer when putting things back together. 

 

I want to thank Chris and Dustin again - they were incredible and generous with their time and I will be eternally grateful to them both!

 

Welcome to August heat, going to utilize the AC to the fullest next weekend!

 

-Paul

Paul,

THANKS FOR SHARING AND GIVING US AN UPDATE.  Your issues, while not trivial to you, also resulted in another thread being updated.  Had it not been for your issues and your concerns, then we would NOT have learned as much as we did.

Glad it worked out well for you.  Glad it is running.  Hats off to you for tacking such.  As they say...."In my YOUNGER DAYS" or as Billie Joel says..."When I wore a YOUNGER MAN'S Clothes....", I might have attempted what you did.

It is folks like you that do some difficult and seemingly daunting things and then help the rest out that makes this a great site.

My comments are not just personal, but also on behalf of the entire "Moderating Crew"

[veraken]

Thanks for the info.  Can anyone tell me the difference between the Penguin II 641816C751C0  and the 640316CXX1C0

[Tom Cherry]

55 minutes ago, veraken said:

Thanks for the info.  Can anyone tell me the difference between the Penguin II 641816C751C0  and the 640316CXX1C0

drop off the alpha characters starting with C and then google them.  You can also try 

Install manual 640316 or the same using 641816....

OR call Dometic.....