rpasetto

14 hours ago, amphi_sc said:

These stops should "hit" just before the linkage goes past over center on the gear movement, thus the motor will get high current and the controller will turn off.  Evidently yours doesn't get a high current situation until the gear runs all the way out of gear teeth.  You might also check how worn out your bushings are in the linkage.  I recently replaced the bushings as mine got so sloppy the linkage would rattle at the extreme and just "bounce" enough so the motor never got a firm stop (but also didn't go past center full extension) ... i.e. the pivot bolts were too sloppy in the joints.  Easy enough to take the bolts out, knock out the bushings, drive in new ones and cut to length with a hack saw, smooth out the cuts on a grinding wheel, and reassemble.  While I was at it I noticed the motor was engaging the top half of the teeth so I added a washer on top of the gear lowering the gear just a tad so motor engaged the gear with full tooth to tooth alignment.  Years ago I also added a screen door spring to assist the starting of retraction.  Probably not necessary after I cleaned up all the gunk sand/mud in the glides with a lot of WD-40 and water pressure. (Winter driving thru sanded wintry slush sure makes a mess!)

The attached pictures show the angle of the linkage retracted and extended.

Thank you agin, Al.

44 minutes ago, amphi_sc said:

Do you have the metal brackets that engages between the two steps when extended?  See my picture below:

Thank you.   I checked...  Are these brackets welded to the bottom step with a bolt adjusted so it catches the top one before the link hits its furthest position?   (I think these are the stops that Rik was mentioning.)

My picture looks like I have the same/similar model.  The stop bolts on mine are just wobbling.  Also the brackets on mine look like they need to be bent outward a bit.  Tomorrow's project#1   if it doesn't rain.

By the way, My step is a Coach Step. model 725-0072.  

This seems as if it shouldn't be happening, but my entry step has quite an overrun.  Extends fully then retracts about 2"; in the retraction cycle it re-extends then retracts all the way.  I would expect a quarter inch or so...  Looked underneath as it runs and I can see how the actuator arms just go too far. 

Contacted CoachStep/Lippert and they said "they hyperextend"... & that it is "considered normal". 

Could it be that  one of the linkage arms is the wrong size?  or ???  Still puzzled; cannot figure out how to adjust it.  

On 3/2/2024 at 4:19 PM, Bill R said:

Yes I did when I put it back on.  It didn’t change the slight pull. You should try still.  You never know.  

I followed the adjustment procedure, which is pretty much turning two nuts to adjust the springs.  The wrench work took less time than raising/blocking the front and crawling under.  

While under there the difference between the way the DS clamps slant forward while the PS clamps slant aft.  The pict I posted (above) actually shows this.  After crawling out I sent picts to the SteerSafe company, they told me "The brackets will sit different because of the way they pinch the axle.   There is no problem with them being forward or to the rear."  So... if the "Adjustment Procedure" doesn;t make any change, I may try loosening those brackets and see if I can re-tighten to make them aligned.  

But if/when I do all the wrench work to remove it, I don't think I'll be inclined to put it back.

2 hours ago, zmotorsports said:

 

Oh come on Rick, you mean you can't remember all 100+ pages.  What the hell????? 🤣

 

I just thought I'd throw that out here as I hope others can benefit as well if they are also being told they are "within spec".

 

 

I do remember lots of your thread, though.  I learned a lot from you, including things I can do and cannot.  🙂

13 minutes ago, zmotorsports said:

Rick, I'm not sure if you've followed along on my thread on irv2, but I am surprised no one has mentioned thrust angle.

 

When I purchased our 2003 Dynasty it had a pretty significant pull to the right, even on flat concrete interstate, and worse on crowned 2-lane highways.  If holding the wheel straight it was fine but upon removing my hands it would shoot pretty hard to the right, like within a couple of coach lengths it would be in the next lane.  I took it to several alignment shops and they all said the same thing, "it's within spec."

 

After a couple years of tolerating this I finally took matters into my own hands and used a laser alignment tool from the drive axle to the steer axle and immediately saw the issue.  The drive and tag axles were off by approx.  1/8".  This resulted in no matter what was going on in the front end, with the drive axle pointing slightly to the left, it was driving it to the right causing the steering wheel to have to be used to correct.  Hope that makes sense.

 

Basically the drive and tag axles needed to be adjusted to keep the coach pointed straight ahead by lengthening the control arms on the left side.  However, the wife and I prefer to travel 2-lane backroad highways whenever possible, so I wanted to add just a little more thrust angle to compensate for these crowned roads.  With no adjustment on these coaches like we have on our OTR trucks, I ended up cutting my trailing arms on the left side (street side) and lengthening them by .156" (5/32").  The 1/8" the trust angle was off plus another 1/32" to compensate for road crown.   I have a video on my YouTube channel explaining the symptoms as well as how I corrected it.

 

Our coach has handled like a dream ever since.  There really shouldn't be much needed to these S-Series chassis if all of the geometry is correct.  Unfortunately, I discovered that the "specs" are quite forgiving so when the alignment shops told me they were within spec, this was still a rather broad range.  As I see it, anything else thrown at these chassis to aid in the matter is nothing more than a bandaid unless the geometry is correct.  That being said, I did fabricate and install a Watts link to the front of mine a couple of years after adjusting my thrust angle and while the results were much less noticeable, the area the Watts link helped the most with is on those long large radius sweeping curves.  I would set my steering wheel going into them and about 2/3 or so through I would have to adjust the steering wheel just a bit to compensate for the forces being applied to both the panhard bar and control arm bushings.  Even with the Atro bushings the forces are enough to allow enough movement to allow the H-frame to shift slightly.  I also have a three part video series on the fabrication and installation of the Watts link on my YouTube channel as well.  Actually I think I may have posted those videos to the video library here on monacoers.org after joining.

 

Once the Watts link was installed in the front that issue was resolved.  Personally, I would put my Dynasty up against d*** near anything on the road as far as handling now.  It's been a joy to drive for the past almost ten years now since the suspension work and 650+ mile days are nothing.  No arriving at the campground or home and being exhausted from chasing the coach down the road.

 

Mike,  I recall having read thru a lot of your thread on IRV2; with 100+ pages it's hard to recall everything... at my age 🙂

Now that you mention "thrust angle", I recall bringing a previous Monaco to Josams in FL many years back; they mentioned "thrust angle" as one of the things they check when they do their alignment procedure.

13 hours ago, Paul J A said:

What floor plan??

40 Platinum 4

28 minutes ago, Bill R said:

Rick - My coach came from the PO with a steer safe as well.  I also had the opposite of you, a slight pull to the left.  So I decided to remove the steer safe.  No change.  Those devices are designed to keep your wheels straight in case of a steer tire blow out.  I have read several testimonies that they are effective in doing that, so I put them back on.  My next thing to do is swap the front steer tires.  I have read that this has solved a lot of slight pulls to the left or right.  Best of luck.

Hve you tried their adjustment procedure?

https://steersafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/ADJUSTMENT-INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Congratulations, you have a suspension device that I’ve never seen.  Don’t pretend to be a chassis expert….  @vanwill52 or @David Pratt      might chime in.  Most of the steering stabilizer were shock absorber style and fitted so the were parallel to the axle. Never seen a spring style.  From the comments and my understanding of the “fixed” style various the adjustable types, the fixed would perform or react differently based on the road crown and such.  The adjustable had a magnetic device so you could center it.  

No idea how you would install such and keep if correct.  How would you determine how much tension and get it installed and balanced?

I actually found the website for "SteerSafe"  https://steersafe.com/  Will read thru the adjustment instructions to see how easy it is to adjust.   https://steersafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/ADJUSTMENT-INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

If that doesn't work I'll just remove it.  My guess it that the springs weakened with age. 

1 hour ago, DavidL said:

In theory, you could smoothly and straight drive the RV onto a known flat / level pad (good luck finding that) and use a bubble level vertically kissing the sides of the sidewall and look for differences in angle of the tires / wheels.  The tops should be slightly inboard (camber) compared to the bottom.  If the Left is More camber (more of an angle from vertical) than the Right, then that would cause pull to the right.  If different, then you would need to decide to straighten the left or put more camber into the right.  And since the change requires some significant effort to loosen the very tight big bolts...you might as well go to a truck alignment shop to begin with.

Note that some suspensions don't have camber / caster adjustment capability.  Caster can also cause pull but is even harder to check without an alignment rack.

I took a carpenter's bubble level checked and bubble is in the center on both sides.  Great is it's a 2x4 for a wall but I doubt it's much of a precision measurement.

Then I decided to look underneath...  looks like a "Steer-Safe" (or similar device) was added by some previous owner and it's probably tighter on the RH side than the left see below) or maybe loose and slid over.  I guess the thing to do is tighten the driver side a bit ... or loosen the passenger side... or both.  If the 'drift/pull" changes then I know this is the cause.

Why anyone would put it on in the first place, I do not know... maybe some other issue?

5 minutes ago, Johnny Mo said:

A Sig does not need a steering stabilizer….

How old are your steer tires ?

When I first drove my Sig for the first time I thought it was out of alignment, pulled hard to the right. New tires it drives straight, had it aligned anyway….

All tires are 2019's... not old but could be old enough to have developed a "set".

1 hour ago, klcdenver said:

Before you do anything check on the front axle to see if you have a steering stabilizer such as a safe-t-plus or roadmaster. If so it probably needs adjusted. It also does not take much of a crosswind to make that happen.

I'll check... maybe someone installed a safe-t-plus on it... not sure why.

43 minutes ago, DavidL said:

toe doesn't cause pull.

Camber does.

Is there a way to check if camber is out of whack?  (besides going to an alignment shop, that is).

43 minutes ago, DavidL said:

ensure your tire pressures are equal on same axles

Ride height doesn't affect pull

Steering box doesn't affect pull (just off center or looseness or tightness in turning wheel)

What symptom would "off center" have?

43 minutes ago, DavidL said:

Tires can cause pull, but they usually get that way due to an alignment problem or inflation problem.

Driving home with our 'new' 07 Sig, I noticed a 'pull/drift' to the right.  Although there were lots of roads, on the trip, which were 'crowned' in that direction even on a few which I thought were pretty level/flat there was that tendency to the right.  Held the wheel in a straight-on position, the coach goes nicely straight; let loose on the wheel and it tends to the right even on those flat roads.

Thinking of possibilities...

• A "Set" to the Tires?
• Incorrect toe-in/out?'
• Misadjusted Steering box (off the sweet spot)?
• or could Ride height be the cause ...?
• or something else?

What's the best way to eliminate or verify the above as possible causes?

Parked it in my driveway tonight and I did a quick measurement of the airbags, plate to plate.  It's not a perfectly level drive ( level on an 8' board shows drop isabout 1").   However, I thought it was level enough to do a "rough" airbag measurement.  Got 9" on the passenger side and around 8 1/2" on driver side.  Could that be enough to account for the problem? ... or  is that not significant to cause the issue and I should look elsewhere? 

Note: I assume that the " airbag height" is still correct for the S-10 chassis.  I know they changed to the Powergera/Valid air leveling that year and the owner manual doesn't have the airbag height measurement diagram like for previous years.  Either way I need to correct the ride height.

Thanks for all the good wishes!  Thank y'll for all the advice over the years.

I have already started the downloads....

Will be posting questions... my "to-do" list is growing!

We're back!  Just took delivery on a "new-to-us" 07 Signature.  Newer than I  expected;  My wife loved the floorplan and condition; mechanical inspector gave it an OK.  Looking good so far.

It has the Intellitec Multiplex system (so that adds to a whole bunch of projects in the list).  Just stayed our first night in an RV park, trying things out ... finding glitches... searching for documentation online... etc.

.

If I understand correctly the ISX 525 CM870 with build dates 2007 and earlier are the ones to look for.  

Thank y'all.

As the search continues, I have been locating a few of that vintage with the Cummins ISX 525. 

I know about the (dreaded?) Cyl. #6 valve problem with the ISX 600 and 650s.  But how risky are the 525's for this and are there any things to look for or do about it, especially on coaches which already have 100k+ miles on them?

Got the VIN# and got a Carfax which shows it has < 1000 miles in the last 6 years...

Owner said they were told it didnt need any oil change or maintenence all that time.  Another one bites the dust.

Back in TX now.  

When in AZ last month I hired a diesel truck mechanic to do an inspection of an early 2000s Monaco, Cummins ISM.  Short version of story... it failed, throwing engine codes and other problems.  Far away, I located another one, arranged for a different diesel mechanic to do an inspection, oil samples... etc. ... 2 days before the mechanic was to get there... seller told me coach was sold.

Now I came across another early 2000s Monaco.... far from me.  Like the ones above, it has the ISM 500 engine.  Big concern I have is there is an engine rebuild in its history,  about 8 years and 16000 miles ago.  Carfax shows little.  Like before, I plan to have a diesel mechanic inspect chassis/powertrain, etc and will get an oil sample analysis.  Is there anything else I should look for considering the engine history?

32 minutes ago, Rob M cKeown said:

I am located in Central Florida (Lakeland Area) and use a Mobile Mechanic that is Cummins Certified and has experience on Motor Coaches. I would use him to inspect the chassis and power train if I was in the market for another coach after my experience with him working on my coach. you can give me a call at 863-602-4685 if you choose to use his services. 

Thanks for the offer.  The Monacos I was considering in FL did not work out for various reasons.   Looking elsewhere now and as I locate a coach of interest I look for a mobile diesel mechanic in its area.

On 1/8/2024 at 5:11 PM, vito.a said:

It's going to be extremely difficult to find an RV inspector familiar with large Monaco diesel coaches.  There is a national training center for RV inspectors but 99% of the training is for trailers.  

I think as a previous Monaco owner you're going to be more knowledgeable than most inspectors.  

Sent you a PM.

You work so hard for the Monacoers group... no need to apologize.

Prayers for your family.

Rest in Peace, Ray.  Prayers and condolences to Ray's family.

Well we're on-the-way-back.  Coachless at present but will be looking at a few early 2000s Monacos in central FL this month.  Main concern is getting chassis & powertrain inspected.  Recommendations of mobile inspectors in this area will be appreciated.

 ... Rick P

Merry Christmas!

Nice looking coach.  Are you planning to post more pictures?