2004 diplomat electrical receptacles stopped working.

[Guest Ray Davis]

On 12/25/2021 at 10:59 PM, Rick A said:

Usually there’s a 15 amp plug on the shore power unit that you can use to pull an extra 15 amps without overloading the RV. 

Are you talking about running a wire outside to the campground elect pedestal?   If so you must be careful to use a heavy-duty extension cord capable of handling a heater. 

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, Ray Davis said:

Are you talking about running a wire outside to the campground elect pedestal?   If so you must be careful to use a heavy-duty extension cord capable of handling a heater. 

And also be aware that MOST are or are supposed to be, a GFCI....so some items will not work.  Some folks have tried, when they had issues, to use an extension cord, properly rated, for a residential or even a Gas/Electric refrigerator and the milliamp or minute or non lethal leaks that occur frequently in the icemaker molds or the defrost coils will (have?) trip the GFCI, especially older ones.  NOTHING wrong with the refrigerator, other than our replacements or the OEM's were never intended, per the NEC then, to be operated on a GFCI.

Codes have changed....and now, it has been posted, the NEC is requiring a GFCI on all circuits or perhaps NOW..."NOT EXEMPTING the refrigerators.... and supposedly the microwaves".  I guess we see how that plays out. Maybe the newer GFCI's are smarter....??

Agree with Ray and wanted to add that.

[Guest Ray Davis]

18 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

And also be aware that MOST are or are supposed to be, a GFCI....so some items will not work.

Tom is right, you're apt to run into it being a GFCI that will not cooperate with your heater.   I haven't had the occasion to try this but I believe a workaround might be possible with a 30amp to 20amp dogbone adapter, providing a 30amp receptacle is available at the pedestal.

[noneuno]

Yes that made sense but it did not work. Still no outlets.

4 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

Tom is right, you're apt to run into it being a GFCI that will not cooperate with your heater.   I haven't had the occasion to try this but I believe a workaround might be possible with a 30amp to 20amp dogbone adapter, providing a 30amp receptacle is available at the pedestal.

No it's only 50.amp at pedestal. 

It's warm out today. I'll be outside checking other stuff. If anyone has an idea I appreciate all your time trying to help.

[jacwjames]

My GFCI's are all in the breaker panels, both the inverter circuits and in the main breaker panel

I had trouble with one of my inverted circuits, I had to trace the wires physically to figure out how the circuit was routed.  Not easy since part of mine was in the ceiling.  I had had to actually access the back of each outlet and trace wires through the ceiling, down the back cap of the RV, to under bed, then back up to ceiling, behind TV in bedroom, then down to base cabinet, then under sink in bedroom, to sink in commode room, then to basement. 

Trace the wires, to find the GFCI, then disconnect all downstream outlets and see if GFCI resets.  If it does reset start adding outlets until you fine the bad one.

 

[HR119300]

I just had the same issue, to reset the breaker on my magnum inverter you first have to pull the breaker button out and then push it in, just pushing it in did not reset.

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

My GFCI's are all in the breaker panels, both the inverter circuits and in the main breaker panel

I had trouble with one of my inverted circuits, I had to trace the wires physically to figure out how the circuit was routed.  Not easy since part of mine was in the ceiling.  I had had to actually access the back of each outlet and trace wires through the ceiling, down the back cap of the RV, to under bed, then back up to ceiling, behind TV in bedroom, then down to base cabinet, then under sink in bedroom, to sink in commode room, then to basement. 

Trace the wires, to find the GFCI, then disconnect all downstream outlets and see if GFCI resets.  If it does reset start adding outlets until you fine the bad one.

 

Good info, @jacwjames

The earlier, I believe through 2004 (Don't hold me to that) Windsors were "WIRED" like the Dynasty, or maybe, to be "as correct" as I can...like the new and improved Dynasty of 2006 (Total MPX upgrade).

Those models and the Windsor had a sub panel.  Without PULLING the prints or the Owner's Manuals....from having done so WAY too many times.

Your Windsor DOES have a Subpanel.  It is either a Dual In and Dual Out or some modification.  The Diplomats up to the Camelots were done, "cheaper" and there was just a single GFCI in the system....save the "OMG....WHY" one that I looked at the print on and it has the 2 or 3 GFCI circuits.... and it is a REAL nightmare and I have to print and color highlight the circuits just to even figure out HOW it worked....AND IF....there was a workaround for removing the Icemaker from a GFCI....

My suggestion, which you might see more "Parroting" from the staff as this is becoming more and more of an issue...

@noneuno Check your manual and look at the Main Panel.  If you do NOT have a Sub Panel with individual or even one GFCI, then you will have at least ONE GFCI or maybe more... receptacles.  That way you will not be chasing a component or item that does not exist on your MH.

@jacwjames & @noneuno

I just fished out what I THINK is the applicable Print for the 2004 Diplomat.  Anita, IF your print is different, please shoot a photo or post it.  It is HARD to help without knowing the circuit.  This is the NIGHTMARE print that I had to muddle through.  I only counted TWO GFCI and following it without a printed copy and a highlighter is a bit challenging....maybe not others, but my 78 YO brain like "pictures and colors"... LOL

2006 Diplomat 120VAC Wiring Diagrams.pdf

Edited November 3, 2023 by Tom Cherry
ADDED the "GENERIC" 120 VAC print typically used for 2004 Diplomat

[noneuno]

Yes that made sense but it did not work. Still no outlets. However we did find a hole shooting water inside behind the fridge from icemaker. Could that have shorted out something and blew all of them. The GFI is right next to the fridge. 

It looks to be the same one you have.

 

Yes only 50 amp at pedestal as this is mobile home park not standard RV park. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Tom Cherry
Flipped photo for clarity

[noneuno]

my 78 YO brain like "pictures and colors"... LOL

I'm 63 and I dont understand any of this at all. Bouts to toss a match in and go shopping.

When I took off the GFI in the bathroom it was dark and I didn't pay attention to load and line wires. Now I don't know which one is which because it has no hot wire it's no power to outlet.

[Tom Cherry]

10 minutes ago, noneuno said:

my 78 YO brain like "pictures and colors"... LOL

I'm 63 and I dont understand any of this at all. Bouts to toss a match in and go shopping.

OK....I know you are NOT serious...  Sometimes the FD will test for "Accelerants".  Some folks have "SPECULATED" that if they fed 440 VAC on each leg that it would be the SAME as Lightning....  DO NOT DO THIS....  they arrest folks for insurance fraud...  LOL.

I did flip the picture for clarity...and YES, the scanned on or wherever it came from that I posted is the same... I knew that yours was the one with at least TWO GFCI and I can't remember if I ever came up with a way to revise the wiring....it was challenging.

Keep following the logic and do the things suggested...

OK....EDITED....

PLEASE READ...  I looked at the prints again.  NOW, this may NOT solve the problem...but here is what you need to understand.

Start with the J-BOX  7B.  That is where the focus should be.  The OUTPUT of the INVERTER or the 20 Amp line comes directly to the BED ROOM TV OUTLET.  IF that outlet is bad...as in...IT HAS an open connection....then all ain't gonna work.  SO...here;s  the DRILL.

Plug in something or turn on the Bedroom TV.  If that outlet is DEAD...then the Circuit Breaker on the Magnum (and BOTH may be labeled as 20....the newer ones are....the older ones may have been a 15 and a 20) MUST BE WORKING.  I do NOT know your skill set.  There is a PLATE or cover you can pull off on the inverter.  There is a LINE 1 and LINE 2 terminal strips.  ONE goes to the Microwave.  SO....if you disconnected the HOT (Black) and Neutral (White) there....ONE or the OTHER will kill he Microwave.  MEASURE the White and Black on Line 1 and Line 2.  If you have 120 VAC there...then disconnecting one set will either kill or NOT impact the Microwave.  Then ONCE you know that the Microwave is on, say Line 1) you SHOULD have Voltage on Line 2.  Then that will go THROUGH the Pin Circuit Breaker.  Make sure you PULL OUT EACH ONE....then PRESS and PUSH IN. 

OK...you SHOULD have the TV working.  BUT, you do NOT know if the outlet back there is providing voltage to the J-Box 7.  If the Bedroom TV outlet is BAD....then NO POWER ANYWHERE ELSE DOWN STREAM....all outlets are fed THROUGH the Bedroom TV outlet.  HOPE THAT MAKES SENSE. 

NOW...the J-Box 7 feeds THREE circuits.  One is the Front TV and the Computer and the Entertainment receptacles.  Then it ALSO goes on from there. In J-Box 3, there are TWO outlets back there....and THEN...BINGO...off to the ICEMAKER Receptacle in the Slide or wherever the Icemaker plugs IN.  THEN to the GFCI.  SO...you ICEMAKER IS NOT on the GFCI.  THAT IS GREAT.

BUT, if you do NOT have power on the GFCI....you MUST measure the VOLTAGE and VERIFY.  NO VOLTAGE...then an outlet is bad upstream.  VOLTAGE on one line....that is the LINE SIDE of the GFCI and the OTHER one goes to the Bathroom and on downstream.

Hope that makes sense.  Sometimes....you look and then the light goes on.

Keep at it...

Edited November 3, 2023 by Tom Cherry
EDITED for Explanation on the CIRCUIT

[noneuno]

Going to Lowe's for a tester and figure out how to work it. And start there. I do not get electricity at all. It makes me feel very stupid. 

My monitor panel has been out for 3 years. I was planning on getting to that next and this happened. 

[noneuno]

. so I'll do what you said to That makes sense thank you..... Finally. Ok bedroom tv is dead. Going to lowes then back to check everything you said. Thank you Tom and everyone for taking your time to help me. I really appreciate it. I would make you all a cake if I had power.

Well Tom 2 half brains and one whole brain should be enough to figure it out.

[Tom Cherry]

21 minutes ago, noneuno said:

. so I'll do what you said to That makes sense thank you..... Finally. Ok bedroom tv is dead. Going to lowes then back to check everything you said. Thank you Tom and everyone for taking your time to help me. I really appreciate it. I would make you all a cake if I had power.

Well Tom 2 half brains and one whole brain should be enough to figure it out.

Buy a 20 Amp Outlet at Lowes.  PUT IT IN.  I had to replace a "Single Hole" outlet with a Dual Hole.  I wanted an extra outlet hole where the Central Vacuum was plugged in.  I REGRETTED thinking that I MUST USE the same "Manufactured Housing" clamp and fuss and cuss and almost kill my hands one.  I purchased it from a REPUTABLE RV Dealer and the part's guy laughed.  HE said....HAVE FUN with a snidely grin.

I FINALL got it all clamped back in place...it works.  BUT, I learned that it MIGHT have been easier to use a GOOD SCREW KIND.  Depends on the slack. If you DO NOT HAVE incoming power on the BEDROOM TV...then I would do the upstream tests first.  That way...you KNOW that the Inverter (line 1 of line 2) is putting out power.  Then, you have tested and reset the appropriate circuit breaker.  THEN...pull apart the fiasco (the clamp ON Manufactured Housing) outlet....and TEST...before you go crazy.  POWER IN....NO POWER OUT....then that is the problem.

Good Luck.  Hang in there.  Let us know...

I had the good fortune of an "AHA" light bulb go on....you will to..

[noneuno]

 We're working with 2 half brains which doesn't always make a whole one. Just found another outlet way up high behind the box built to hold the new flat tv that was installed. I have been plugging my tv into the outlet right at the counter top level. And that one has no power either. The tv one has no power either so off to the j box now.

[Guest Ray Davis]

16 hours ago, noneuno said:

 We're working with 2 half brains which doesn't always make a whole one. Just found another outlet way up high behind the box built to hold the new flat tv that was installed. I have been plugging my tv into the outlet right at the counter top level. And that one has no power either. The tv one has no power either so off to the j box now.

Since you brought up the TV receptacle I'll relate the problem I had.  It may not apply to your problem but if it does, great.

My passenger side electrical was dead which includes the kitchen slide and front TV.  After much tracing of circuits and hair pulling I determined the circuit first made its way in the ceiling to the TV and then made its way along the pass side to the slide.   I found a twist on wire-nut had come loose inside of the TV receptacle box.  Repairing it made all of the dead circuits live again.  Look inside all of those junction boxes, you might get lucky.

[Tom Cherry]

8 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

Since you brought up the TV receptacle I'll relate the problem I had.  It may not apply to your problem but if it does, great.

My passenger side electrical was dead which includes the kitchen slide and front TV.  After much tracing of circuits and hair pulling I determined the circuit first made its way in the ceiling to the TV and then made its way along the pass side to the slide.   I found a twist on wire-nut had come loose inside of the TV receptacle box.  Repairing it made all of the dead circuits live again.  Look inside all of those junction boxes, you might get lucky.

Comment….just to sort of make sure….and also follow up on Ray’s comment.  Go back to the original print. IF the Bedroom TV outlet is defective or the circuit THROUGH it….the game is called…..NO STADIUM LIGHTS.

There HAS to be POWER in and out of J Box 7.  Bad bedroom TV….no IN.  Dumbest thing I have ever seen Monaco DO… verify power out for NON microwave circuit on Inverter terminal strip and that circuit breaker (pin) is OK.  These have failed.  Relatively easy to fix….but need to get “inside” inverter to replace. THEN go to Bedroom.  IF no incoming power….and you reset the PIN….I would open up the inverter and verify the “function” of the PIN.

NOW…easy test.  I THINK the Microwave is working.  Pull terminal strip cover.  Reverse line 1 and line 2 OUTPUT.  IF the Microwave doesn’t work….then keep messing with the PIN circuit breaker or replace.

BUT..lf you still have no pwer and bedroom TV outlet dead….circuit issue….probably Bedroom TV outlet.  Replace….if no joy….then major issue.  NO WIRE NUTS or such between inverter and J Box 7.

That’s my “troubleshooting” logic….

[noneuno]

I found 5 outlets in bedroom. Two on the dresser wall one is a punch through loop outlet , the other is high and came from the loop outlet then goes to the right. Then the washer dryer outlet. We took out the washer dryer( it didn't work). Then to j box 3 & 4 under the bed. No power to either box. It seems like all the outlets and lights on the 20 amp line work it's the ones on the 15 that don't work. I think I might be in too deep opening the inverter. I'm no sparky. Before I do anymore I have to read more so I understand what your saying.

[Dr4Film]

I stated back directly after you had posted your problem to verify that the circuit breakers have been checked to make sure they have been reset properly and are working correctly.

Sounds like that step may have been overlooked.

Time to dig out your Inverter Owners Manual and read how to reset the circuit breakers or test to make sure they are working correctly.

This is not rocket science, your problem is either a malfunctioning GFI or Inverter CBs or a GFI fault of some sort.

[Tom Cherry]

14 hours ago, noneuno said:

I found 5 outlets in bedroom. Two on the dresser wall one is a punch through loop outlet , the other is high and came from the loop outlet then goes to the right. Then the washer dryer outlet. We took out the washer dryer( it didn't work). Then to j box 3 & 4 under the bed. No power to either box. It seems like all the outlets and lights on the 20 amp line work it's the ones on the 15 that don't work. I think I might be in too deep opening the inverter. I'm no sparky. Before I do anymore I have to read more so I understand what your saying.

Richard has made a repeat suggestion....but your post puzzles me.  SO...

BACK TO THE PRINT.  Perhaps you misspoke or did not follow the print.  There are TWO CIRCUITS from the Inverter. 

The 15 Amp goes to J-Box 1 and feeds the Microwave.  I believe you said that worked...but that was a while ago.

However, the 20 Amp one GOES THROUGH the Bedroom TV outlet.  Then to J-Box 7.  There are TWO outgoing circuits.  One goes to J-Box 3 and it is "Tied" to J-Box 4.  IF you mean....as stated above, NO POWER TO J-Box 3 & 4., then the 20 Amp Circuit is DEAD.  You also stated, I know for a fact, that the TV Outlet was/is DEAD.  That is the FLASHING K-Mart Blue Light Special.  So, I THINK you reversed the circuit.  That does NOT matter.

As to GOING INSIDE... the Inverter.  That is YOUR DECISION.  We do NOT recommend that folks do things that they are not comfortable nor qualified to do. However, doing the "trouble shooting" to determine if the Bedroom Outlet is the culprit requires more skill... 

NOW, I pulled your manual.  The picture on page 8-303 SHOWS LEVER STYLE CIRCUIT BREAKERS for Line 1 and Line 2.  NOW....who KNOWS which model you may have or if you even HAVE the TRACE or some previous owner installed a Magnum.  Pictures of the Inverter and the connections would be NICE....almost a requirement so that we can help you. NOW...the two manuals that I downloaded show TWO DIFFERENT STYLES.  One has the PIN style Circuit Breakers....PULL OUT and PUSH BACK IN...as Richard suggested.  BUT, your Owner's Manual shows a Lever or ON OFF style.  Those, if you have them, have to be turned OFF....and then turned back on.

The ONE with the COLOR picture for the 458 is what I suggest that you LOOK AT... Go to page 24 and follow and then keep reading.  This is to "sort of" an approach to coach you along.  FIRST.... verify that you have reset either the lever or the pin style properly.

BUT.... NO JOY.  THEN read and decide...it is your call.  If you look at the pictures, you will see that there is a TERMINAL strip inside the Inverter.  That has two cables.  Each has a Black and White and Ground. 

What I was encouraging you to do...is THIS....

First...check the circuit breakers....ONE MORE TIME.

NEXT...  Assume that the BEDROOM TV outlet is DEAD (no Power) AND you have power to the Microwave....then you need to resolve WHERE the problem is.

You need, with the POWER OFF, and the Generator's Up Front Circuit Breaker OFF and the 30 Amp MAIN Breaker off....SWAP THE CIRCUITS.  You do NOT need an meter or such.

You remove the cover plate and look at the Terminal strips where the two circuits are located.  One will be Line 1 and the other Line 2.  All you do is... MARK (masking tape works OK) the lines....call them LEFT and RIGHT or Line 1 and Line 2.  Put that on the cable or insulation jacket.

Now, you just reverse the lines.  Put the Line 1 BLACK on to the Line 2 Black position.  Same for White.  GROUND is OK....it doesn't move.

NOW, the logic is this.  You KNEW that the 15 Amp line (Microwave works).  THEN, since you have reversed them....you have GOOD OUTGOING POWER to that line.  NOW....that line (15 A) is connected to the 20 A line....and it goes through the Bedroom TV outlet.  IF that WORKS....then the LOGIC....the MICROWAVE SHOULD BE DEAD....and the problem is in the INVERTER....CALL A PRO. 

BUT, IF the TV Outlet is STILL DEAD....there is NOT a problem in the Inverter.  You do NOT need an RV Tech....any GOOD Residential electrician needs to get involved and then they (no HE...that is sexist...LOL) can determine where the circuit is open.

Please take a moment...or maybe a while...LOL and review this.

This is the ONLY assistance, that as a Moderator, that we the group can offer.

If you DO NOT FEEL comfortable reversing the wires....then it will be futile to give your more complicated advice and that would require the use of a meter and measuring electrical circuits.

That is the BOTTOM LINE.....  We have, and no offense, to you, sketchy and now, conflicting information.  We are NOT back at square one.  YOU DO have the concept...but what is required now is ELECTRICAL TROUBLE SHOOTING and your reluctance or fear or concerns are heard  LOUD AND CLEAR.

What I just proposed, other than keep focusing on the circuit breakers, is the next step....and if that is not an option, then you need assistance...

Thanks for understanding....as well as for other members to understand.  We are at an  impasse....and until there is enough information....then nothing else can be gained.... Hopefully, with reading the manuals and sitting down and "Noodling it out", that the Wire Swapping, DONE WITH NO POWER, makes sense....so you can call the RIGHT person.

Let us know....

FREEDOM_ 458 Series_COMBI_Inverter_ Manual.pdf Freedom_combie_Owner_manual.pdf

[noneuno]

I can do the reverse line 1 and 2. I just had to read it again to make sure what you were saying for sure. On that strip there is a jumper a black jumper . do I do anything with the jumper or not?

[noneuno]

Am I switching the 2 black out wires.?

[noneuno]

Ok switched the black wires. Had power to the bedroom tv and gfi in bath. And no power to micro. So line 1 is not sending power through.. O k now what does that mean?

[noneuno]

Thank all of you for all your hours trying to understand my problem. It did help alot. It's time for an electrician. It's out of my pay grade. You guys were awesome and I would make you all a cake if I had power. Thank you. I'll let you know what they find when I find someone to come look at it.

[Tom Cherry]

10 hours ago, noneuno said:

Thank all of you for all your hours trying to understand my problem. It did help alot. It's time for an electrician. It's out of my pay grade. You guys were awesome and I would make you all a cake if I had power. Thank you. I'll let you know what they find when I find someone to come look at it.

@noneuno

NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

You have an inverter internal issue.  Let me clarify.  I apologize for not seeing your earlier posts.  Assuming you swapped HOT 1 & HOT 2.  AND did nothing else.  YOU ARE CORRECT.  This is really good news.  Chasing an outlet problem is frustrating and expensive.  There is an INTERNAL problem in the inverter.  

ASSUMING you have successfully reset the pin style or lever style circuit breaker on the Inverter…..then it, the inverter, is defective….

From a practical and $$ standpoint, it would be foolish to spend upwards of $800 to have it repaired.  If it is “just” a faulty “circuit” breaker and you found an electronic RV tech, then, it might cost $300….rough guess.  They have to disassemble the inverter.  Run voltage tests and determine if the issue is NO POWER from the internal ATS or is a bad circuit breaker.  MOST LIKELY, the ATS is permanently mounted on the main circuit board….these boards run upwards of $500 - $600 for just the board…..plus the labor.  Then you have other components such as fans so, if they break….then you run the risk of ruining the new board.

The average life, per Magnum….and yes, you do NOT have a Magnum is supposedly 10 years.  We, here, get much longer life.

If you had  the skill set to disassemble and test and replace a faulty breaker….or if you had a friend or relative that could do that….then obviously the best choice.

BUT, if the ATS is bad or the board is bad…most likely the ATS….and it can’t be replaced and is only available as part of a NEW board, I would not repair the inverter.

I would replace the inverter with a Magnum MS 2012 or the current 2000 watt Pure Sine-wave inverter.  This is actually pretty simple.  You have all the wiring in place….the connections are the same.  Remove the electrical cables and the battery cables.  Connect or attach to the new Inverter.  You will need a new Magnum Remote.  The ME-RC not the advanced one.  It is a phone cable connection from the inverter to where the Trace remote is.

It is highly reliable and you have great technical support from Magnum.

YES….a cheaper home  “electrician” can do this.  Piece of cake.   You really ARE fortunate in that the internal MH circuits are OK…and that the issue is in the old inverter….

[noneuno]

 Thanks tom, yes we switched the hot 1 with hot 2 and what didn't work before then worked and what did work no longer did. 2 years ago I had a power problem during the blizzard I liked to have froze to death. I went through 5 RV techs @125 trip charge and 150 an hour. It's another 125 trip charge if they have to get a part and come back. And if that hour is only 15 minutes it's still 150. Then I drove to Colorado Springs and got screwed even worse. He charged me 3600 to put a used board in the inverter. Then I found out a new inverter was only 1200. So I'm a little Leary of RV techs . I really do appreciate you and all the time you have spent helping me. Right now I'm just switching extention cords around to what we need until I can afford to fix it. Thank you tom.