TRC 40100 Transfer Switch Malfunction Question

[cbr046]

BOB,

EDITED the title for clarity as to what brand and model of ATS so that this thread (subject) can be more easily searched later on by other members.  Please note the change and do such for future posts.  Thanks,

TRC 40100 transfer switch not switching when generator is on.  There's 122V on both legs and 0V ->gnd on neutral leg.  The relay snaps closed, immediately reopens and repeat ~ every 5 minutes? 

I can push the relay closed and get a solid 122-0-122 at the output terminals.  There's a constant green led under the relay.

Shore power side transfers fine.

QUESTION IS . . . . . has anyone taken these apart and found anything with the relay / control board?

I don't want to replace if I don't have to. 

- bob

Edited August 24, 2022 by Tom Cherry
Clarity of Title

[Dr4Film]

Possibly the generator relay is at fault and may be replaceable. Or it may have something going on in the control board too.

Unless those components are replaceable then it sounds like a new transfer switch is in your future.

[Tom Cherry]

41 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

TRC 40100 transfer switch not switching when generator is on.  There's 122V on both legs and 0V ->gnd on neutral leg.  The relay snaps closed, immediately reopens and repeat ~ every 5 minutes? 

I can push the relay closed and get a solid 122-0-122 at the output terminals.  There's a constant green led under the relay.

Shore power side transfers fine.

QUESTION IS . . . . . has anyone taken these apart and found anything with the relay / control board?

I don't want to replace if I don't have to. 

- bob

Bob…start from the beginning.  Measure as follows. Do this with the TRC open….while the Genny is still running.  You are measuring the Generator incoming cable on terminal strip…marked GENERATOR….

Line 1 (Red?) and Line 2 (black?) to each other…..ZERO since you have a 120 Volt system.

Line 1 & Line 2 to Neutral….120 or so volts….each side.

Line 1 & Line 2 to Ground….same 120 Volts….each side.

Ground to Neutral….ZERO VOLTS.

You can also, Genny OFF, check the OHMS or Continuity from Ground to Neutral.  I think it will be ZERO.

If you get this, then the Genny is fine….and the ATS is the suspect.  Don’t know if the TRC is field serviceable like the ESCO’S.  You will have to talk to the. And tell them the issue.  

If you do NOT get the right voltage readings above, the. There is a problem with the Genny…

[cbr046]

  

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

Bob…start from the beginning.  Measure as follows. Do this with the TRC open….while the Genny is still running.  You are measuring the Generator incoming cable on terminal strip…marked GENERATOR….

Line 1 (Red?) and Line 2 (black?) to each other…..ZERO since you have a 120 Volt system.

Line 1 & Line 2 to Neutral….120 or so volts….each side.

Line 1 & Line 2 to Ground….same 120 Volts….each side.

Ground to Neutral….ZERO VOLTS.

You can also, Genny OFF, check the OHMS or Continuity from Ground to Neutral.  I think it will be ZERO.

If you get this, then the Genny is fine….and the ATS is the suspect.  Don’t know if the TRC is field serviceable like the ESCO’S.  You will have to talk to the. And tell them the issue.  

If you do NOT get the right voltage readings above, the. There is a problem with the Genny…

In the original post I did all that.  Except ohming the line back to the genny because voltage stays solid with actuator pushed in to supply 120V to coach. 

Looks like a new ATS . . . . I'm leaning the same model TRC / Southwire 40100 as most of our "glamping" is without shore power, then a portable surge protector for those few RV park excursions.  Should be easy wire-out, wire-in.  Thoughts? 

Note:  We did a lightning hit to the house about 6 weeks ago.  Lots of internet connected items in the house took a hit (modem, router, Vonage, ans machine, Dish receiver (connected to Vonage phone line), ethernet switch, a 12V maintainer in a barn and, in the coach, the HDMI stopped working on the Dish receiver in there.  It's possible a surge might have zapped the control board in the ATS.  Everything else in the coach turned out ok (so far).

- bob

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by cbr046

[Dr4Film]

15 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

I started a new topic with more detail. 

- bob

 

Where can we find your new topic with more detail?

[cbr046]

5 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Where can we find your new topic with more detail?

LoL.  I thought I was reading & responding to the old topic ("ES50 Volt . . . . "). 

This *IS* the new topic.  Then I edited out the "new topic" comment.  Too many people in my head right now.  Sorry!

- b

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, cbr046 said:

  

In the original post I did all that.  Except ohming the line back to the genny because voltage stays solid with actuator pushed in to supply 120V to coach. 

Looks like a new ATS . . . . I'm leaning the same model TRC / Southwire 40100 as most of our "glamping" is without shore power, then a portable surge protector for those few RV park excursions.  Should be easy wire-out, wire-in.  Thoughts? 

Note:  We did a lightning hit to the house about 6 weeks ago.  Lots of internet connected items in the house took a hit (modem, router, Vonage, ans machine, Dish receiver (connected to Vonage phone line), ethernet switch, a 12V maintainer in a barn and, in the coach, the HDMI stopped working on the Dish receiver in there.  It's possible a surge might have zapped the control board in the ATS.  Everything else in the coach turned out ok (so far).

- bob

 

OK.  YOU ASKED.  TRC 40100 does NOT….PER a big “note” on the TRC site have any surge protection.  So that solves that issue or riddle.

have you called TRC and asked tech support for help and if you can purchase a new, presumably, control board.  If not, then, yes.  New ATS.

I AM BIASED.  I like the ESCO because they ARE field serviceable.  You order parts and pop in.  The LPT50BRD has a good track record.  It is about the same price as some of the TRC but you need to shop.  You should buy the ESCO from an authorized dealer and some of the Amazon sellers are not.  Folks have had issues with Lippert pumps for the same reasons.

As to surge protection, you need that ALL THE TIME.  The nicer and more reliable portables cost as much as the ones you install.  The Progressive HW50C is the most commonly used.  It goes BEFORE the ATS.  THAT protects the ATS.  I had a TRC SurgeGuard portable and permanently installed.  It is NOT field servicible…

I pulled it, sold it, put in an HW50C.  The HW50C has two boards and a contactor….100% field replacible.

my take…
 

[cbr046]

ATS is replaced with the same (but updated) TRC aka Southwire aka Surge Guard 40100.  It's a control board with switching relays only, with no surge protection.  $136.  That didn't even come close to the field part replaceable ESCO and the lot.  The newer unit has a different control board with bigger relays, parts wrapped in an RTV like substances and mounted in a different location.  I didn't care for the plastic case . . . .

I used a tool for the first time that I acquired in 1975 through a factory disposal sale - An in-lb torque wrench.  It only went up to 35 in-lbs so I had to fudge an additional 5.

I did call Southwire and while there is product support there's no field replaceable parts. 

The control board had a burned 2W resistor, discolored enough that I couldn't read the color code, but it had a resistive value.  Not sure if the wattage was underrated or if something else caused the resistor to fail.  Time was an issue. 

"need that (surge protection) ALL THE TIME" . . . . Totally not true.  It's very difficult to justify surge protection when 90% of camping is spent boondocking.  I run an inverter generator when I don't need air conditioning.  Even in the Southeast AC is rarely turned on. 

While the HW50C might have some nice qualities, including a remote monitor that has to be hardwired in, it doesn't have bluetooth.  I'm leaning toward the Watchdog for that reason alone.  And again, portable to eliminate multiple electronics in a single package that would be expensive to replace.  Plus, because it's portable, the pedestal can be tested without power going into the coach. 

Best,

- bob

Edited August 31, 2022 by cbr046

[Tom Cherry]

4 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

ATS is replaced with the same (but updated) TRC aka Southwire aka Surge Guard 40100.  It's a control board with switching relays only, with no surge protection.  $136.  That didn't even come close to the field part replaceable ESCO and the lot.  The newer unit has a different control board with bigger relays, parts wrapped in an RTV like substances and mounted in a different location.  I didn't care for the plastic case . . . .

I did call Southwire and while there is product support there's no field replaceable parts. 

The control board had a burned 2W resistor, discolored enough that I couldn't read the color code, but it had a resistive value.  Not sure if the wattage was underrated or if something else caused the resistor to fail.  Time was an issue. 

"need that (surge protection) ALL THE TIME" . . . . Totally not true.  It's very difficult to justify surge protection when 90% of camping is spent boondocking.  I run an inverter generator when I don't need air conditioning.  Even in the Southeast AC is rarely turned on. 

While the HW50C might have some nice qualities, including a remote monitor that has to be hardwired in, it doesn't have bluetooth.  I'm leaning toward the Watchdog for that reason alone.  And again, portable to eliminate multiple electronics in a single package that would be expensive to replace.  Plus, because it's portable, the pedestal can be tested without power going into the coach. 

Best,

- bob

Your call and your decision. Comment about boondocking is correct. But, like anything else....bad power from a pedestal can kill over $10K in electronics. If that is the case, then never plug in and run your generator as needed for such.

The Portable ones were a PITA for me and were also "easily removed".  I had the locking device for the Surge Guard. But, if you read the literature on most of the portables....a little caveat about not mounting or using (or used to be) horizontally and must be vertical for best weatherproof protection. The location of the locking mechanism and such made it impossible to work all the time. I ended up with a short 50 Amp extension and used zip ties to keep it vertical. I guess we engineers read too much.  I read the specs on the HW50C and also the feed servicable....and we have a LOT of folks that said....I blew up something and my Surge Guard didn't protect.  That was back in the late 2009 through 2013 or so timeframe....so maybe they improved.  But the simplicity of two distinct and field servicable components convinced me.  I also had to help trouble shoot open neutrals and the costs of them was ugly....

That is what the Upstream of the ATS Surge Protector (regardless of brand) is needed....but the HW50C turns OFF the power....and if the MOS (surge chips) are bad...you KNOW IT.  The Surge Guard did little....they improved it and put on, I think, more codes....but it was totally "Glued together" and you either had them fix it or buy another.  Too big an investment for a simple $50 board.

Again.....Good luck with your system, whichever way you decide, then give us some feedback...

[TommyL]

Not having any problems with the transfer switch,but its the Iota. South wire is 170.00 ,Furrion 200.00 ,Esco 300.00 . We have a Progressive surge hard wired with a little monitor in the MH. A lot of post about transfer switches, haven’t seen any on Furrion. If I hadn’t read post about the Iota and someone asked about it,I’d would say 15 years old,zero noise ( except for transfer clunk) no problems. Now I’m gun shy. Any thoughts on the Furrion .Or  ?..??.

[Tom Cherry]

First…you have the start of a good reliable and simple system.  The HW50C (I assume with the interior remote) is the typical first choice.  Many folks have run them for years.  I have a lot of “nights” on mine….almost 2 years and I installed it in 2009.  It is 100% field serviceable.  That is a major benefit….

As to the ATS.  I was asked to do research on the ESCO by our founder, Col Bill many years ago.  The ESCO LPT50BRD was the most stocked replacement by dealers when the IOTA switches went bad….based on folks needing one quickly.  Like most, they have gone up.  RV Upgrades has them for $255.  I found one on Amazon for under $200.  But, like most items, be careful where you buy.  Most .Amazon and EBay sellers are NOT authorized distributors or dealers.  We are finding that many if not most of the major RV aftermarket manufacturers are less than happy to do warranty work or such from the third party sellers.  That goes for pumps and other motors and such….so just a word of caution.  I 

I admit to being biased based on recommending the ESCO for at least 10 years as a moderator here…including the original Yahoo site that transformed into this one.

The TRC/Southwire (Originally Surge Guard) was not field serviceable and always had to be returned to the vendor.  Tech support was sketchy….don’t know now.  But the ability to install a contactor or a board and have a real US tech support advisor like ESCO has was a major plus.  There is another ESCO, 65N in the model number but it is 120 VAC coil unit and “buzzes or hums”.  Some hear it…most wives do.  My hearing is shot.  ESCO recommends the LYGHT or LPT50BRD.

Your call, except in no way UNDER ESTIMATE the danger, fire and personal safety, of the IOTA.  

Word of advice, from ESCO and also personal experience with vibrating heavy duty machines,  use Loctite Green on the terminals.  Use a hard handle screwdriver and wrap two thicknesses of the mechanics “blue or red” cloth shop rags.  If you have average male grip strength, you will get enough torque.  Push down on the screwdriver handle with your Non Dominant hand and tighten with the Dominant.  Always go back over all connections after the first assembly….I usually do two passes.  Make sure you label (masking tape) the Generator, Shore and Load or MH Panel leads.  Yes, some don’t and we have had to help sort them out.  

Sometimes folks get confused and think that the Green Loctite (AutoZone usually has it) is permanent. Blue is next strength and Red is max.  You will easily be able to break a green connection….or a little heat  from a soldering gun…which is not usually necessary.  Saves you a lot of future trouble.  I would also do the Progressive HW50C while in there…

Good Luck…

[TommyL]

Thanks Tom ,sometimes we forget these components are attached to a rolling vibrator . After all there sitting still when working on them. The surge guard has been in service about 10 years, out of sight,out of mind. I need to check it. I use a crescent on my screwdriver for the last twist if the wrist gives up.

Plugged  02 Windsor into friends house at Red River  several years before Camelot and new surge guard, Progressive wouldn’t let electricity in (reversed polarity)interior remote thru the code, its a nice extra. Thanks TommyL 

08 Camelot Tag .