Batteries Totally Dead After Amp-L-Start Failure

[bobdinsmore]

Both two-month-old Interstate lead acid batteries totally dead because Amp-L-Start failed to charge them through the coach batteries while plugged into 50A shore power. They've been on a charger for more than a day and are not coming up at all. I do not know if Interstate will cover them under warranty, but hope so. In the meantime, I have found out LSL Products the make of the Amp-L-Start is out of business. I did a lot of looking around on the internet to find n alternative and cannot find one. Maybe a DC-to-DC charger hooked between the coach and chassis batteries?? I'm not sure. It's unfortunate the Amp-L-Start failed because it had provided many years of flawless performance.

My Question: What do you folks use to charge the chassis batteries when hooked to shore power for long periods, other than periodically driving the coach?

I appreciate all help you offer.

Bob Dinsmore, 2000 Diplomat

 

 

[TomV48]

Well I use a jumper that I put on there every week or so for a couple days.   Because my system is set up to charge LiFePo batteries, I made a jumper wire with a circuit breaker and a big high amperage diode, which see to knock voltage down a half volt or so for the SLA chassis batteries.

Others install a "Bird" which allows bidirectional charging.    

He shows how.

[Tom Cherry]

No offense to the AMP-L system, but it is basically a “voltage thief”.  It siphons off volage(current if you prefer) from fully charged House Batteries.  There are generic ones that are cheaper and they work the same.  

A more logical approach is a three stage charger with a desulfonator pulsing circuit.  PlusTech makes them.  For your Chassis batteries you need at least 2 amps.  It needs to be regulated or staged like your inverter/charger is.  Folks buy a cheap 6 amp charger….plug it in and then fry (boil off) the electrolyte.  You will spend less or about the same on a good unit as another Voltage Thief.  You have power.  

Odds are….Interstate will do one of two things.  If you go to a distributor that has the proper charging equipment, they will discharged and recharge like they should be.  NOW…assuming you have NOT boiled off the electrolyte, you COULD use a simple Jumper Charger between the Chassis and House.  That will bring them back up.

If you take them to a dealer, he MAY keep them and have the Distributor pick them up….or replace.  They are warranted for at least a year.  The starting batteries (this ASSUMES you bought STARTING a batteries and NOT DEEP CYCLE RV/Marine for starting) are 2 plus years by type and model.  I think the deep cycle are one year and the starting are 3 years replacement and then prorated after that.  You should NOT have to spend anything.  Look at the Interstate site.  There is a matrix and warranty and “what we do “chart” on it.  Your model will be listed.  Pretty straight forward….

[jacwjames]

My house & chassis charging system consisted of the BIRD and Isolation Solenoid, and a Lambert 415.  I started to question whether the system was working correctly as the Lambert 415 was clicking all the time at slow speed and other times faster. 

I replaced all of that and installed a Bluesea MLacr in the same place the isolation relay fit.  Replaced the Auxillary start switch with the Bluesea switch on the dash.  Now both batteries will charge whenever there is a charge source from either shore or generator via the inverter charger or while driving from the alternator.

[WayneC]

51 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

My house & chassis charging system consisted of the BIRD and Isolation Solenoid, and a Lambert 415.  I started to question whether the system was working correctly as the Lambert 415 was clicking all the time at slow speed and other times faster. 

I replaced all of that and installed a Bluesea MLacr in the same place the isolation relay fit.  Replaced the Auxillary start switch with the Bluesea switch on the dash.  Now both batteries will charge whenever there is a charge source from either shore or generator via the inverter charger or while driving from the alternator.

I use a solar panel with a long enough cord so it can be in as much sunlight as possible, works great, when traveling I will store it in the walk in closet .small price great results, can excite any battery if needed,house,toad,boat,Atv.

Wayne 

1999 Signature ceaser 

[DrDon4u]

Just look for a battery isolator. Many companies make them.

[Tom Cherry]

26 minutes ago, DrDon4u said:

Just look for a battery isolator. Many companies make them.

I think that might be an oversimplification.  Here is the TYPICAL Battery Isolator Relay.  It is the EXACT reverse of what an Amp-L-Start does;

https://www.powerstream.com/battery-isolator.htm

The Amp-L-Start was designed to actually feed the OTHER WAY.  When you charge you House, you bleed (steal) current or voltage through a PCB and Diode system and put the voltage into the CHASSIS battery.  The Isolator, by definition does it the OTHER WAY.....like when you are driving.

The Blue Seas ACR (recommended and well liked) is a nice piece of electronic hardware.  BUT, to use it in lieu of the "Big Boy Battery Boost", which it replaces, you have to revise the high current circuits and also add additional control wiring to the front Boost Switch.  

It differs from the most common charging or BIRD (Bi-Directional) system that Intellitec made and Monaco started using circa 2--5/6.  There is a voltage control module that senses the charging current and both bank's voltage and when all is well (charging at home from the inverter or on the road from the Alternator), the module closes the Battery Boost (a REAL BIG BIRD....not the earlier Tombettas) and then you have BIRD charging.  That was sort of the final solution.

NOW....there were itterations along the way.  The Genny was hooked up on the earlier ones....and they supposedly would NOT charge if you had the Genny ON and Driving.  BUT, that was eliminated (my 2009 Prints show that) and the Genny was left off.  So, if you buy a NEW module, then you don't have to use the Genny signal.

If I understand the post, the issue is the Chassis Batteries ran down.  NOW, that in itself is a bit puzzling.  TYPICALLY, left alone, they will last for maybe a few weeks.  MAYBE the defective Amp-L-Start drained them.

Unless one plans to do major rewiring or go to an advanced system, it is HARD to beat a good quality 3 stage charger with a defulfonator circuit.  I have several of them and keep all of our cars on them when we go out for extended (2 weeks or more) trips.  The ATS and my Vette's batteries are over 6 years old and they charge up to 100% and I don't plan on replacing them soon.

I DID lose a BIRD system a few years ago.  I replaced the Big Boy and plan to rebuild the OEM one.  I always check the BIRD Control Module.

NOW....to really MAKE THIS CONFUSING.....the SIMPLE THING....if you have 50 Amp power is to put a jumper cable on the House Positive to the Chassis Positive.  This year, I actually installed a #2 Jumper and then disconnected my BIRD module and the Big Boy's contacts are open.  I know some really well versed electronic experts that do that...

Hope this clears it up.....

[bobdinsmore]

Tom, your "Jumper" solution certainly is the easiest and least expensive, What are the cons? This is like having the "Battery Boost" switch active 100% of the time.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, bobdinsmore said:

Tom, your "Jumper" solution certainly is the easiest and least expensive, What are the cons? This is like having the "Battery Boost" switch active 100% of the time.

The cons are if your inverter/charger quits working…..as in you store your MH several miles away…like I do and don’t get to pat it on the head and tell it that you love it.

In your case, the MH is there at home.  You periodically check the inverter remote and it should be at “float” or fully charged.  The OTHER thing to do is pull the plugs on any TV or Home Entertainment devices…standby mode drains your battery and the charger is still charging.  I have a power strip in each area and shut them down,  I also unplug my Microwave so that some transient current or a lightning strike does not harm it.

NOW…a DISCLAIMER, requires by our legal staff….LOL!

There are three brands or types of Battery Boost Solenoids.  They are mistakenly called “Big Biy”.  Sort of a tissue is called a Kleenex.  Some folks will put a golf tee under the boost switch and wedge it ON.  That ONLY works, BUT IS NOT A LONG RANGE RECOMMENDED PRACTICE, if you have the Trombetta or maybe a White Rogers boost.  They were made for CONTINUOUS full 12 VDC on the coil.  However, the real INTELLITEC Big Boy, in the 200 Amp rating (which is commonly used for MH) will burn up the coil.  It las a younger brother that is a 100 A version for just battery connections and NOT rated for the high current of using the Boost to try to aid the Chassis Batteries when low (that ain’t gonna work if the Chassis is dead….as even then, the contacts are NOT rated for full starting).

Bottom line, a Jumper Cable or a 24” #2 battery cable at Napa or Walmart will work…I used the #2 and threaded it inside as the clearance to the door between the trays was not enough and the door would not lock and also let in water.

[bobdinsmore]

Tom, me again. I do not understand your comment "The OTHER thing to do is pull the plugs on any TV or Home Entertainment devices…standby mode drains your battery and the charger is still charging. " The fact that the charger is still charging, doesn't this essentially fill up the standby drain as it occurs? 

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, bobdinsmore said:

Tom, me again. I do not understand your comment "The OTHER thing to do is pull the plugs on any TV or Home Entertainment devices…standby mode drains your battery and the charger is still charging. " The fact that the charger is still charging, doesn't this essentially fill up the standby drain as it occurs? 

Too much info.  Minimizing the parasitic load on the House bank is what one should do anytime in storage. The less charging…as in the less drain, then the less electrolyte boiled off.  So, regardless, I shut down as much as I can.

YOU might get some “advice” as to how to conserve and eliminate parasitic loads.  For the record, if your battery cut off switch kills the inverter display, then that is as good as it can get.  BUT, some will say…turn off (on most brands….definitely Magnum) the charger.  OPPS.  The inverter is or will be in STANDBY like a TV and continually sucking up parasitic current.

Use a Jumper Cable or a 24” #2 cable.  Reduce all the house internal loads….even unplugging phone chargers. Pul the cable to the Microwave.  Check the charge status periodically.

Remember, your Chassis is NOT a deep cycle. Start the engine and drive it for 50 or so miles every few months. Turn on the heat pumps and run them off the generator.  That is the best advice.

Do some searching for battery load or exercising here. Many threads and many of us have covered it. Your House batteries need to be run down to 50% charge or maybe 12 VDC (measured at the BATTERY), then recharged.  Do that every 4 - 6 months….you will get years of service.. 

[bobdinsmore]

I apologize for not thanking each of you for your suggestions. My motorhome currently is about a thousand miles away so friends can use it while repairing their home after Hurricane Ian so I have not been to get to a fix. In the meantime, they hooked a three-stage charger to the chassis battery bank which is working fine.

I'm leaning toward Tom Cherry's jumper approach as the motorhome normally is parked beside my house and I do check it often; it's an easy and inexpensive fix and fewer electricals to go bad.

Thanks for your help. You Monacoers are INVALUABLE!