New Cummins Engine

[throgmartin]

Just an FYI / article for those wondering about the future of Cummin's diesel engines.

Cummins to Launch New ‘Fuel-Agnostic’ Engine in 2026 - RV PRO (rv-pro.com)

 

[Gary Cole]

Someone remarked that America might one day become the "new" Cuba with some deciding to do what ever it takes to keep their vehicles running rather than submit to the oftentimes wishful fanciful desires, and mandates, of the same people who it is said designed the camel in order to replace the cowboy's quarter horse.

[Jeff H]

What are the other fuel types?

[wamcneil]

From another article: “At Cummins, the fuel-agnostic concept refers specifically to low-carbon and zero-carbon fuels: hydrogen, natural gas, propane, clean diesel, and so on. In a fuel-agnostic engine family, the siblings are all essentially identical in their lower ends—from the head gasket down.”

[jacwjames]

So I wonder what a good time frame to be to wait and see how the new engines perform and if they have any problems before even think about buying something that has the engine.

I knew the manager of the Cummins shop in Knoxville, great guy and knowledgeable.  If I happened to be in town I'd stop and BS with him if he wasn't busy and most of the time he made time to talk to me.  On more then one occasion he commented on how all the new emission technology had been a moving target and Cummins really struggled with it.  By the time they finally figured it out on a newly designed engine they would change it again.  

In fact when he was getting ready to retire he mentioned that he was going to buy a motorhome to travel in, I told him I'd keep my eye open for a DP for him, he said NOPE, he was buying a gasser. 

[wamcneil]

I'm astonished that some of the emissions technologies are practical enough to put into production. DPF for example. Oh my gosh; the engineering and development resources that must have been required to build enough know-how to put the first practical DPF into production.

I'm amazed that anybody had enough audacity to try and engineer such a counter-intuitive solution in the first place.

I've got an old grand cherokee with a mercedes diesel in it. Somehow the DPF is still viable after 160k mi.

[Guest Ray Davis]

13 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

On more then one occasion he commented on how all the new emission technology had been a moving target and Cummins really struggled with it.  By the time they finally figured it out on a newly designed engine they would change it again. 

That's the guvment for ya,  caterpillar threw up their hands & bailed out of the over-the-road engines.     VW tried cheating with their ECM but got caught. 🥸

[jacwjames]

There's enough money it when there are government regulations that compel operators to buy/install.  We were forced to install DPF systems on our older underground equipment to comply with Diesel Particulate Matter regulations.  Didn't have an option and were willing to pay whatever it took to get them.  We got quotes from multiple vendors but a lot of the selection was on availability and the support to install/maintain with some guarantee's as to getting them to work.  We spent millions on the installations and the equipment to support. 

We had new equipment on order but could not wait, every day of delay in getting the operations up and running was costing money.  In 2006 high zinc prices were driving the whole thing an the parent company (one of the largest mining/commodity companies) didn't care what it cost.  In 2006, when I did the budget, if we could have been producing zinc at the higher price, would have paid for the acquisition and rehabbing of the whole operation in less then a year.  Unfortunately by the time we got up and running the price of zinc dropped like a rock and they decided to put the operations on care and maintenance in late 2008.  They made the announcement the same day I sent a down payment to purchase my rig, I was Deputy General Manager at the time.   We were committed to closing the operations with future in mind, and even had a record production month in Dec.  Came up with a closure plan and worked without an accident during that time. 

Companies are still fighting this type of battle and willing to pay for equipment that will support operations. 

[Tom Cherry]

We have smarter folks than me on the technology and all the different types or approaches to get cleaner diesel engines.  However, I did spend 10 years building carburetors and worked with the Ford fuel systems engineers and went through the eventual death of the carburetor and I was the project manager for designing and building a new, robotic assembly line for automotive fuel injectors.  

As a Moderator, I also have to be sensitive to political and name calling posts.  Starting in the late 70’s, right after the fuel crisis, CARB a was a dominant player in the US EPA and DOT fuel efficiency and emissions standards.  During those years and up until a few years ago, the DOT and EPA and “industry reps” and CARB was calling the shots.  It was a matter of fuel efficiency vs emissions vs “customer acceptance” vs cost.  Yes…a committee, but they (the committee) did listen and understand that you made compromises.  And their focus was primarily gas engines.  Someone pointed out that VW cheated…..yes…and it was some graduate students from West Virginia (memory) that actually tested the vehicles on the road….versus in a Government lab and found that there were actually TWO a programs in the ECM.  One you drove with on the highway and the other controlled the engine when it was hooked up to a “EPA test rig”.  THEY blew the whistle.  I have friends with Audio Diesel SUVs.  One bought his for literally pennies on the dollar when the value of them plummeted.  He drove it and eventually got a handsome reward from VW and then VW fixed it.  It does NOT run as peppy, but he needed the interior room and the economy of a diesel….so he is happy.

From what I read and my OPINION…having a little insight from my years in automotive and then my long running career in environmental….  The power structure has changed.  CARB is now used by some 20 odd states rather than the Federal Emissions standard…..as well as fuel.  There is a block of western states and the NE, all the way down to VA have adopted CARB.  Now, when the “committee” meets, the manufacturers are overpowered.  It amazes me from my days as a hot rodder and carburetor guy, what new cars will do (acceleration & traction control) compared to the muscle cars of the late 60’.s. My wife’s ATS v6 RWD will be evenly matched with my previous C4 94 Vette.  It is a smidge slower than was my C5 2000 Vette….and her precious Maxima 1997 was as fast as my  67 Chevelle 325 HP SS 396.

Bottom line, advances in machining and lubricants and quality control and electronics have done miraculously advanced things.

BUT, the more climate proactive CARB and EPA and DOT are less prone to take into account what industry says is realistic and practical….  Maybe they think it is holding back like all the stories that Exxon bought all the patents for the miracle carburetor.  There NEVER WAS ONE.  Fuel injection and technology finally did it.

So, the Diesel engine folks are at a huge crossroads.  The 2006 mandate pushed out the DPF.  Cummins figured it out.  Navistar gambled and we know the story of their fiasco.  DEF replaced the DPF….I doubt there was significant fuel and operating cost benefits…..but the “Emissions” standards dictated.

Right now, my opinion…..climate control (EGS in investing) is the dominant force….and whatever the consumers or truckers have to pay or endure…..it is worth it…..or so says the powers that be.

I don’t know what the solution will be…..but somehow, some company is going to have to make a diesel that will meet and later exceed or be upgraded to tighter emissions.   The problem is that the balance or the level playing field is gone and it is easy to DICTATE emissions standards and fuel economy, but the real key is the ability to develop and manufacture a power plant that will meet them without doubling or trebling the costs….and right now….with the aggressive approach that CARB and the EPA and DOT are taking…..without an equal amount of engineering input or such…..it is a mystery….

[VinceB]

I'm waiting for dilithium crystals or a Mr. Fusion. 😊