Surround sound speakers.

[Jeff H]

Hello

Does anyone know the impedance of the surround sound speakers?

I have changed the receiver/amp along with the TV and now I am having some issues with the speaker wiring.  I took them off the old receiver and transferred them 1 pair at a time but it seems like nothing is right and the sub isn't working at all.

 

[waterskier_1]

What year and model coach?  On my 05 Exec the Sub Woofer does not have it's own amplifier - so I could not use the typical Sub-Woofer output of my Marantz A/V Receiver.  Since this is a 7.1 A/V Receiver, and I'm only using 5.1, I used one of the other channels to power my sub.  Granted it has all the frequencies, but the sub will not respond to the higher ones.  There is likely some inefficiencies, but I can't hear them.  I had no problems using the 8 Ohm outputs for the speakers.  Are yours dead, or just low volume?

  -Rick N. 

[Jeff H]

2 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

What year and model coach?  On my 05 Exec the Sub Woofer does not have it's own amplifier - so I could not use the typical Sub-Woofer output of my Marantz A/V Receiver.  Since this is a 7.1 A/V Receiver, and I'm only using 5.1, I used one of the other channels to power my sub.  Granted it has all the frequencies, but the sub will not respond to the higher ones.  There is likely some inefficiencies, but I can't hear them.  I had no problems using the 8 Ohm outputs for the speakers.  Are yours dead, or just low volume?

  -Rick N. 

2006 Diplomat

Well it seems like the speakers are mixed up but despite that some are very quiet.  It almost seemed at first the sound was twisted 90 de to the right in relation to he TV.  IE if you are sitting in the DS couch the L and R are correct.  

The Sony A/V Receiver said 6-16 Ohms but I didn't see anything on the speaker.  Just thought I would eliminate that as an issue. 

I think there is something going on with the connector plug so I am going to find a way to isolate each speaker and make sure they are all working and that the wires are marked correctly.

[Tom Cherry]

59 minutes ago, Jeff H said:

2006 Diplomat

Well it seems like the speakers are mixed up but despite that some are very quiet.  It almost seemed at first the sound was twisted 90 de to the right in relation to he TV.  IE if you are sitting in the DS couch the L and R are correct.  

The Sony A/V Receiver said 6-16 Ohms but I didn't see anything on the speaker.  Just thought I would eliminate that as an issue. 

I think there is something going on with the connector plug so I am going to find a way to isolate each speaker and make sure they are all working and that the wires are marked correctly.

Assume you are dealing with just the two rears and maybe a sub but not the two front (plus, I have a center channel).  The two front’s are fed off the “12 VDC” switch or an electric solenoid speaker switch that is normally closed….passing through the F Left and F Right.  Turn on the dash radio, the “antenna up” signal controls it.

Just passing this on…as some are NOT aware of how the speakers are wired…

[Martinvz]

“Usually” automotive speakers are 4 ohm and home audio/ surround speakers are 8 ohm. But who knows what was installed.

Do you have a manual for the amplifier/receiver? The specs should clarify what is expected for each channel. Or google the manual and it should tell you. 
 

[Jeff H]

47 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Assume you are dealing with just the two rears and maybe a sub but not the two front (plus, I have a center channel).  The two front’s are fed off the “12 VDC” switch or an electric solenoid speaker switch that is normally closed….passing through the F Left and F Right.  Turn on the dash radio, the “antenna up” signal controls it.

Just passing this on…as some are NOT aware of how the speakers are wired…

It is 2 front speakers,1 centre front, 2 rears, and a sub (5.1).  They are separate from the dash stereo speakers.

The manual for the A/V Receiver says 6 - 16 Ohms.  I don't think it is an impedance issue as the ones that work, work well I just wanted to eliminate the possibility.  I will take a speaker further apart to see if I can find a label.

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Jeff H said:

It is 2 front speakers,1 centre front, 2 rears, and a sub (5.1).  They are separate from the dash stereo speakers.

The manual for the A/V Receiver says 6 - 16 Ohms.  I don't think it is an impedance issue as the ones that work, work well I just wanted to eliminate the possibility.  I will take a speaker further apart to see if I can find a label.

 

as we learn...Monacos are different in years and sometimes within models.  The Speaker Switch has been an issue....especially when folks drill holes in them....but accident... NOT ME...HONEST...but a fellow Camelot owner did when he was using a hole saw to run some more cables.  SO BE CAREFUL..

Good Luck.

[Gary Cole]

Problem doesn't sound speaker ohm related. Using a 4 ohm speaker on a system rated for 8 ohms makes great big sound ,,,for a while anyway.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Gary Cole

[Jeff H]

Ok,

So I did mis-wire the speakers. 

Depending on the "mode" the A/V receiver was in (Front Surround /Direct/ HD/ Dolby/ Music) changes how the speakers are used.  This added tot he confusion.  At one point the rear R speaker was playing sound from all but 1 channel and the rear L was not responding at all.  Also there are You Tube videos that will test surround sound so you can visually see where the sound should be.  But as it turns out my phone doesn't play 5.1 surround so it seemed like the rear speakers weren't working.  Once I got you tube on the new TV and used the video there (after getting the wiring straightened out) the only thing that doesn't work is the sub woofer.

I am wondering if I need a powered sub.  Not a big deal for the amount of watching we do we can live without the Sub.  There is 2 pairs of orange and black wires going to the sub only one of which has continuity with the wires at the A/V receiver.  Ther is no power wire so the factory sub must not be an "active sub"

Oh, and just in case anyone was on the edge of their seats wondering about impedance,  the sub had a label that said 6 Ohms which is at the low end of the A/V receiver tolerance but it should work.

I kinda miss the old days when a boom box was all you needed.

Thanks all for the comments  

 

[waterskier_1]

Jeff, as I mentioned in my previous post, my sub was not powered.  It needed full power (versus a Sub pre-amp) out of the A/V Receiver.  If you tell me the specific brand & model of your A/V Receiver I might be able to provide better guidance.  My Marantz A/V Receiver has a 7.1 amplifier, but I only am using the existing 5.1 speaker configuration.  This allowed me to connect the sub to one of the remaining 2 powered amplifier channels.  It is not exactly the same as a sub-output, since it has the full frequency response, but the sub can't respond to the higher frequencies, and I have not noticed any distortion.

 -Rick N.

[Jeff H]

2 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

Jeff, as I mentioned in my previous post, my sub was not powered.  It needed full power (versus a Sub pre-amp) out of the A/V Receiver.  If you tell me the specific brand & model of your A/V Receiver I might be able to provide better guidance.  My Marantz A/V Receiver has a 7.1 amplifier, but I only am using the existing 5.1 speaker configuration.  This allowed me to connect the sub to one of the remaining 2 powered amplifier channels.  It is not exactly the same as a sub-output, since it has the full frequency response, but the sub can't respond to the higher frequencies, and I have not noticed any distortion.

 -Rick N.

Sorry Rick

I thought you were asking for the make and model of the Motorhome.  Here are some pics of the box the A/V receiver came in.

[Bill R]

1 hour ago, Jeff H said:

Sorry Rick

I thought you were asking for the make and model of the Motorhome.  Here are some pics of the box the A/V receiver came in.

 

 

Jeff - I just installed the same exact Sony Amplifier/Receiver in my coach.  I had to learn a lot, but they are working as they should now.  You do need to pay close attention to all the sound selections.   

Not sure if you have the same set up, but my coach has a Riverpark Radio/AV switcher.  Now with the receiver I really don't need that, but am keeping it for now.  There is a button switch in the cabinet above the drivers seat that will switch between Radio and Amp.  I had to figure out first that I needed that off for the Amp to work.  

The original Surround Sound Amp for my coach was the RCA RTD300 with 6 ohm output.  So I figure speakers are at least that.  Also, the subwoofer is a passive subwoofer, so you will need to purchase an active powered subwoofer as @waterskier_1 mentions.

The upgrade though is so much better now as I can use the HDMI/ARC function with my ROKU TV and DVD player.  Also is nice now I can watch TV in surround sound.

[Jeff H]

5 hours ago, Bill R said:

Jeff - I just installed the same exact Sony Amplifier/Receiver in my coach.  I had to learn a lot, but they are working as they should now.  You do need to pay close attention to all the sound selections.   

Not sure if you have the same set up, but my coach has a Riverpark Radio/AV switcher.  Now with the receiver I really don't need that, but am keeping it for now.  There is a button switch in the cabinet above the drivers seat that will switch between Radio and Amp.  I had to figure out first that I needed that off for the Amp to work.  

The original Surround Sound Amp for my coach was the RCA RTD300 with 6 ohm output.  So I figure speakers are at least that.  Also, the subwoofer is a passive subwoofer, so you will need to purchase an active powered subwoofer as @waterskier_1 mentions.

The upgrade though is so much better now as I can use the HDMI/ARC function with my ROKU TV and DVD player.  Also is nice now I can watch TV in surround sound.

Hi Bill

I had a switcher but I never used the satellite and we got rid of the bedroom TV.  It was just taking up space so I got rid of it.  I have Starlink and a WiFi/ Cellular modem so i can get all the TV/Movies I need.  I do like the new setup and the new TV.  Should have done it long ago.

[Doug Hoegh]

Jeff I’m late to this party, but curious where you placed your new AV amp?  I use the compact Marantz that fits in the cabinet, but found that it was overheating from the tight enclosed space. Now considering other location options.  And you are correct, the Magnadyne speakers are 6 ohm and a not very good product. I changed mine to Polk Audio 8 ohm speakers and very happy.  

[Jeff H]

12 minutes ago, Doug Hoegh said:

Jeff I’m late to this party, but curious where you placed your new AV amp?  I use the compact Marantz that fits in the cabinet, but found that it was overheating from the tight enclosed space. Now considering other location options.  And you are correct, the Magnadyne speakers are 6 ohm and a not very good product. I changed mine to Polk Audio 8 ohm speakers and very happy.  

Hi Doug

I put it in the same cabinet the original was in  I made some legs for the DVD player to lift it off the A/V amp.  I realized last night that the Remote won't work with the cabinet door closed so I will probably put some thing under the A/V Amp to give it a bit more air circulation although leaving the door open when it is in use is probably not a bad idea either.

What model of Polk Audio speaker did you use?  Was it a powered Sub?

[Tom Cherry]

FWIW…Monaco put in two “IR Repeaters” in the Camelot.  They have an “eye” and it is right next to the TV and there is a small “transmitter” or repeater double stick taped to the “IR eye” on my HEC receiver …..same for Bedroom.  Amazon previously sold the same brand, but I can’t recall the name.  Lots of them out there and mine work great.  Just an idea.  Monaco also dropped an HVAC vent or outlet in the HEC cabinet on the left side of the TV.  There would be enough room to use a hole saw and put a 5” muffin fan from the cabinet on ours to the big “enclosure” for the TV…I have done that at home on our custom built in cabinets 

Just some food for thought.

[Les Hurdle]

As a composer and sound engineer I for one HATE surround sound......... where is the sweet spot?

Recently saw Oppenheimer.... destroyed by silly surround sound gags.

With respect, also remember if your ears are 'older' and they are not 'matched' you may note issues.... especially the high frees on the woofer !!!!!

frees.   ooops

[Doug Hoegh]

2 hours ago, Jeff H said:

Hi Doug

I put it in the same cabinet the original was in  I made some legs for the DVD player to lift it off the A/V amp.  I realized last night that the Remote won't work with the cabinet door closed so I will probably put some thing under the A/V Amp to give it a bit more air circulation although leaving the door open when it is in use is probably not a bad idea either.

What model of Polk Audio speaker did you use?  Was it a powered Sub?

Jeff

im using the Polk Audio RCi60’s. I had to hog out the ceiling round hole a bit, but install went quite easy. Monaco glued in a second piece of 1/2” plywood above the ceiling plywood and on most I still had a slim piece of the backer.  Regardless they snugged up tight with wood screws. For the time being I’m running without a subwoofer. Sound is still quite good.  I’ve contemplated a couple of ideas for a sub.  A 12 volt driven mini sub mounted behind the double doors in the center console.  Pull out the drawers and you’ll see a lot of room.  Or put a 120 volt powered sub left of the driver chair.  It would be stored during travel.  For ventilation I added a couple of computer fans in the back of the cabinet and I bought a fan unit that sits on top of the amp, but I still had my first one act up from the heat. I’ve now replaced the first with a new amp and I’m still kicking around ideas to dissipate the heat. I’m thinking about adding holes with vents on the leafy, right, and bottom of the cabinet.  I few years ago I knew a guy that added 4 all thread rods with a wood shelf hanging below the cabinet to hold a very large Sony amp with success. Here’s a photo of my setup without the added fan unit sitting on the amp.  It’s tight. By the way I also have a 06 Diplomat but a PBT three slide unit.

[Doug Hoegh]

Obviously my photos are upside down.  Not sure what's going on.  When I save to file they are correct.

62638725-C7A3-482C-A748-0482ECF9C986.heic

Edited August 20, 2023 by Doug Hoegh

[Jeff H]

1 hour ago, Doug Hoegh said:

Jeff

im using the Polk Audio RCi60’s. I had to hog out the ceiling round hole a bit, but install went quite easy. Monaco glued in a second piece of 1/2” plywood above the ceiling plywood and on most I still had a slim piece of the backer.  Regardless they snugged up tight with wood screws. For the time being I’m running without a subwoofer. Sound is still quite good.  I’ve contemplated a couple of ideas for a sub.  A 12 volt driven mini sub mounted behind the double doors in the center console.  Pull out the drawers and you’ll see a lot of room.  Or put a 120 volt powered sub left of the driver chair.  It would be stored during travel.  For ventilation I added a couple of computer fans in the back of the cabinet and I bought a fan unit that sits on top of the amp, but I still had my first one act up from the heat. I’ve now replaced the first with a new amp and I’m still kicking around ideas to dissipate the heat. I’m thinking about adding holes with vents on the leafy, right, and bottom of the cabinet.  I few years ago I knew a guy that added 4 all thread rods with a wood shelf hanging below the cabinet to hold a very large Sony amp with success. Here’s a photo of my setup without the added fan unit sitting on the amp.  It’s tight. By the way I also have a 06 Diplomat but a PBT three slide unit.

I thought mine were right side up but they all ended up sideways. 

[Just Jim]

this is what I used to fix the non powered subwoofer issue.  That woofer is in the back of the kitchen slideout and next to impossible for me to get to unless I remove a lot of plumbing drains etc....  so I just used what I had.  Found on Amazon.

Fosi Audio TP-02 TDA7498E Subwoofer Amplifier Mini Sub Bass Digital Class D Integrated Subwoofer Amp 220Watt

Edited August 21, 2023 by Just Jim