Rear watts

[JDCrow]

This is a rear Watts. I have the rear cross bars already. In my application, shorter coach, the rear bars didn’t give me a lot of noticeable improvement.

I believe the whole H bar set up of the Roadmaster has too much room to wiggle, thus the wandering. 
 

The rear Watts “locked” the H frame from moving laterally, which to me is important. I strongly feel that by the time the road is felt in the Coach, the suspension is already onto the next section of road. You get this constant squirrelly feeling of never quite being in contact with the road. 
 

Now on the front Watts link, it’s in the rear of the H frame. The front leveling Jack is the only mounting that is available. The front of the H frame still has room to wander/wiggle as the H frame is so long, the watts linkage tries hard to adjust, and does a good job but could be better. 
 

Talking with Van about this, he said if I could fab up something to get the front Watts on the front of the H frame, it would stop the wandering sooner. I agree and am planning to devise a way to mount the fronts watts on the front of the H frame.

Now, my Safety steer “stabilizer” needs adjustment in that it’s designed to “center” the steering, that is same resistance to the left or right. Currently it is not centered, the Coach steers more easily to the left and stiffer to the right. Because the safety steer isn’t centered, the Coach wanders slightly to the left and I have to make constant corrections.

This is probably way more info than anyone is after. I’m not an engineer (or electrician) so trying to understand the forces at work and how each system designed to correct them work. And if any of this needs clarification, or pictures, just ask and I’ll do what I can. 

[Tom Cherry]

17 minutes ago, JDCrow said:

This is a rear Watts. I have the rear cross bars already. In my application, shorter coach, the rear bars didn’t give me a lot of noticeable improvement.

I believe the whole H bar set up of the Roadmaster has too much room to wiggle, thus the wandering. 
 

The rear Watts “locked” the H frame from moving laterally, which to me is important. I strongly feel that by the time the road is felt in the Coach, the suspension is already onto the next section of road. You get this constant squirrelly feeling of never quite being in contact with the road. 
 

Now on the front Watts link, it’s in the rear of the H frame. The front leveling Jack is the only mounting that is available. The front of the H frame still has room to wander/wiggle as the H frame is so long, the watts linkage tries hard to adjust, and does a good job but could be better. 
 

Talking with Van about this, he said if I could fab up something to get the front Watts on the front of the H frame, it would stop the wandering sooner. I agree and am planning to devise a way to mount the fronts watts on the front of the H frame.

Now, my Safety steer “stabilizer” needs adjustment in that it’s designed to “center” the steering, that is same resistance to the left or right. Currently it is not centered, the Coach steers more easily to the left and stiffer to the right. Because the safety steer isn’t centered, the Coach wanders slightly to the left and I have to make constant corrections.

This is probably way more info than anyone is after. I’m not an engineer (or electrician) so trying to understand the forces at work and how each system designed to correct them work. And if any of this needs clarification, or pictures, just ask and I’ll do what I can. 

Thanks….obviously did not know that.

My research, which was, I believe, extensive, 09/10….and also supported by David Pratt’s results and knowledge. Resulted in putting on the Blue Ox TruCenter.  Blue Ox hired away the lead engineer or maybe the “guru” from one of the largest “stsbilizer” manufacturers…I cant recall if it was Safe T or the other one.  He had been trying to get the company to “move into the 20th century”, to no avail.  FWIW, Tommy Fannelli was the lead field rep or master Guru Surge Guard/TRC and relalized thr need for a more comprehensive snd also field servicable Surge Protector.  They said NO.  He left…founded Progressive Industry and designed, along with his EE brother, their units….and then becsme the leader….and then the rest tried to cztch up.

Anyway, after taking to the TruCenter Chassis guy…who called and talked for at least half snd hour as well as the GM of the Monaco Service center in Wildwood…who had driven many different MH with different brands…and was an expert on the original Hydraulic system….coveted by so many, all agreed…a fixed device was not the best alternative for the Roadmaster.  FWIW, I think Van is not a fan of any…but most of us left on our stabilizers after adding the Watts.

Bottom line, what then convinced me was that Henderson’s, one of the leaders in MH chassis work custom designed a “trim kit” for the Super Steer….and it got rave reviews…so, I figured….  Blue Ox sells an adjustable one…. Henderson’s makes a trim kit for Super Steer….2 X 3.

NOW….I did do some research and there are a lot of threads out there…many owners have the Safety unit and tweaked and finally, with a solid front end alignment, got theirs correct…but point out extreme lane drainage angles still cause it to pull .  But, generally it works well.

MY POINT…those of us with the Blue OX raved at it’s original installation.  But those that installed the WATTS then commented that the stabilization factor or feel was amplified after adding the Watts.  AND, surprisingly, we rarely ever need to trim or adjust it.  

So, my unsolicited opinion.   I would not bother to tweak and twiddle….until I had the Watts on and drove for a thousand miles or so to let it “settle in”.  Then find a good road….fairly level as in the drainage  pitch from the center to the edges is minimal…or as the Civil Engineers say…the Crown is minimal.  Then adjust.  But adjust it for what lane, inside or outside, that you intend to drive in. Even with the Watts, there are extremes and I steer in the opposite direction of the minor pull and tweak…just some 65K driving miles and 20K with the Watts added.

Good luck.  Learned something today…

[RoadTripper2084]

1 hour ago, JDCrow said:

Now, my Safety steer “stabilizer” needs adjustment in that it’s designed to “center” the steering, that is same resistance to the left or right. Currently it is not centered, the Coach steers more easily to the left and stiffer to the right. Because the safety steer isn’t centered, the Coach wanders slightly to the left and I have to make constant corrections.

I can be difficult to determine what's helping or hindering with so many different modifications in play at the same time.

You might try removing this and seeing if it's adding anything at this point. Then if you think improvement is necessary after putting some miles on the new config, add it back and see.

 

 

[JDCrow]

13 minutes ago, RoadTripper2084 said:

I can be difficult to determine what's helping or hindering with so many different modifications in play at the same time.

You might try removing this and seeing if it's adding anything at this point. Then if you think improvement is necessary after putting some miles on the new config, add it back and see.

 

 

Thanks to you and Tom both. I did take the safety steer off when I did the front watts and rear bars, I definitely noticed a difference in the wrong direction. 
 

I saw the trim from Henderson’s. I’m assuming that it allows you to trim for wind, road crown etc depending on what the conditions are at that given time. 
 

It’s another $700 I’m not sure I want to spend at this point. The Az trip next month will be the deciding factor. 
 

It all might be moot at this point as life is changing and we might off the 5th wheel and my beloved Dip for a bigger coach next year. The wife is trying to figure what will make her happiest and I’m just along for the ride. 

In case anyone was wondering about the safety steer adjustment I’m going to make, here is the link 

 

https://youtu.be/_-pYpPHqIzw?si=FF72x1yb9_yePslH

[MyronTruex]

My safe-t-plus joined the landfill after installing the TRW and Watts. I had a home built trim system that worked well but the added pressure of steering was a bit of a pain. I have not missed it. 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, JDCrow said:

Thanks to you and Tom both. I did take the safety steer off when I did the front watts and rear bars, I definitely noticed a difference in the wrong direction. 
 

I saw the trim from Henderson’s. I’m assuming that it allows you to trim for wind, road crown etc depending on what the conditions are at that given time. 
 

It’s another $700 I’m not sure I want to spend at this point. The Az trip next month will be the deciding factor. 
 

It all might be moot at this point as life is changing and we might off the 5th wheel and my beloved Dip for a bigger coach next year. The wife is trying to figure what will make her happiest and I’m just along for the ride. 

In case anyone was wondering about the safety steer adjustment I’m going to make, here is the link 

 

https://youtu.be/_-pYpPHqIzw?si=FF72x1yb9_yePslH

All i know..  improvement in TruCenter…definitely.  Hendersons kit for “SUPER” brand.  Yes, all factors, especially cross winds.  You steer straight…and then sort of “double compensate”….you steer into the opposite lane pretty far.. that fixes it…ordinary road…just center….

[windsorbill06]

I'm a little late, but I did the blue ox true center long before the watts was marketed.  I liked it, especially with the adjustable centering feature.  But coach still wandered somewhat.  So I tried the rear X bars from Mike Hughes (monacowatts).  That was a great improvement from the wandering, but I could still feel it with semi's or strong xwinds.  

Then my Blue Ox solenoid failed and I couldn't adjust it on the go.  Took it off and found all kinds or corrosion inside the 'weather sealed' box.  Called blue ox, 'discontinued', they told me and no parts available.    So I took entire thing off and left it on garage shelf.

Took coach on a trip and I was surprised that the rear X bars kept it steady without the true center.  Still a little wandering but no different than with the true center.

Next I installed the rear watts link.   WOW!  That was a noticeable improvement.   So I inquired about the front Watts, but was told they don't make a front watts with an 'air only' leveling coach.

So decided to live with what I had and drove quite a bit.  Then about a year later, at Quartzsite pre-covid, Mike Hughes was there and we talked about the front watts.   He climbed under my coach and said he had something that would work.  Great!  We installed it right there.  It brought the handling and lack of wondering to a new level.   

Ride home was wonderful.  25 knot gusty x/winds and trucks were not noticeable.

That was several years ago.   If someone was considering this, I do it in steps like I did,  and see where your 'acceptable' level is.

  

[96 EVO]

11 minutes ago, windsorbill06 said:

 

So decided to live with what I had and drove quite a bit.  Then about a year later, at Quartzsite pre-covid, Mike Hughes was there and we talked about the front watts.   He climbed under my coach and said he had something that would work.  Great!  We installed it right there.  It brought the handling and lack of wondering to a new level.   

Ride home was wonderful.  25 knot gusty x/winds and trucks were not noticeable.

 

  

Well, fill us in Bill!

'WATT'S' it called. (pun intended)?

The front watts was the only one I was interested in, but, I have air levelling.

[windsorbill06]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Well, fill us in Bill!

'WATT'S' it called. (pun intended)?

The front watts was the only one I was interested in, but, I have air levelling.

According to mike's web site, it is available for your coach.   I'm not sure if mine was one of the first or not.   It's been several years and pre-covid.  

https://www.monacowatts.com/products.htm

But I did get to see how each component improved the ride, vs putting them all on at once.

FWIW,  Mike was able to put cross bracing on the front of his coach.  He would have to elaborate, but I don't think he modified anything.  I don't know of any other coach that can do that.

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by windsorbill06