AC/Aqua Hot Communication Issue

[06Windsor]

Ok so I'm looking for help with what I feel is a communication issue between the dometic penguin (5 button) ac/heat pump/furnace  and my Aqua Hot AEH-100-04s. I recently purchased this 2006 Monaco Windsor. Now that its starting to get cold I am trying to use the heat. When turning on the furnace in both zones and bumping up the temp to 90 it never turns on the front (kitchen/living room/ front dash) heat exchanger's. What I have checked. went out to the Aqua hot control panel to check the lights and found That zone 5 which is the front exchangers is never turning on the circulation pump or the fans on the exchangers. I have manually introduced 12v and ground to the zone 5 fan terminals behind the panel to see if the fans all worked in that zone and they did. I also did the same on that circulation pump and it to worked. I have perfectly good hot water and the preheat works as well.  This is where it gets tricky. If I'm understanding the system correctly the front ac should be telling the AH to turn on thru the 2 blue thermo wires coming out of the ac unit thru the Monaco installed brown and green that is going to the AH. Here's my problem. The way some one has the ac hooked up I feel is wrong. The brown and green wire is a 12v and ground that is coming off the Ah therm terminals. someone has these 2 wires connected to the red and black wires on the ac unit and the 2 blue wires appear to be dead. I tried to hook it up according to monaco diagram brown and green to the 2 blue therm wires and go to turn on the thermostat to test it and the thermostat no longer has power. so I hook it back up the way it was and gained power back to the thermostat. I don't feel like the ac control module should be getting its 12v from the AH controller it should be getting it to the 12v distribution panel. Right? I have had a Aqua Hot expert come and look at it and he only deals with the aqua hot itself. He tried a new control board and that wasn't the issue. he said the AH is working fine and that it was a communication issue/ wiring issue on the coach end. I have also replaced the 5 button thermostat with a microaire easy touch which made absolutely no difference. does anyone have a or can get me a picture of the 6 pin connector wiring under the ac return air vent of the front and back ac units ? I feel as tho someone has the ac's wiring hooked up all wrong. 

[timaz996]

I don't know if this will help but here are three pictures I took before replacing my front A/C unit two years ago. And a Dometic wiring diagram.

Edited November 1, 2023 by timaz996

[vito.a]

Have you checked the front A/C control board dip switch settings? One of the dip switches is for Furnace.  

Is this a newer Penguin II front A/C?  If so, does it have a retrofit control board for the 5 button thermostat, or did someone adapt the wiring to get it to work?

[06Windsor]

Yes i have checked the dip switches and the only one on the front ac that is flipped is the furnace switch. And the front ac appears to be the original 13.5 unit. not the high capacity.

[vito.a]

Picture of the wiring under my A/C.  The top picture is a newer Penguin II and the lower picture is an original Penguin.  

Edited November 1, 2023 by vito.a

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, 06Windsor said:

Ok so I'm looking for help with what I feel is a communication issue between the dometic penguin (5 button) ac/heat pump/furnace  and my Aqua Hot AEH-100-04s. I recently purchased this 2006 Monaco Windsor. Now that its starting to get cold I am trying to use the heat. When turning on the furnace in both zones and bumping up the temp to 90 it never turns on the front (kitchen/living room/ front dash) heat exchanger's. What I have checked. went out to the Aqua hot control panel to check the lights and found That zone 5 which is the front exchangers is never turning on the circulation pump or the fans on the exchangers. I have manually introduced 12v and ground to the zone 5 fan terminals behind the panel to see if the fans all worked in that zone and they did. I also did the same on that circulation pump and it to worked. I have perfectly good hot water and the preheat works as well.  This is where it gets tricky. If I'm understanding the system correctly the front ac should be telling the AH to turn on thru the 2 blue thermo wires coming out of the ac unit thru the Monaco installed brown and green that is going to the AH. Here's my problem. The way some one has the ac hooked up I feel is wrong. The brown and green wire is a 12v and ground that is coming off the Ah therm terminals. someone has these 2 wires connected to the red and black wires on the ac unit and the 2 blue wires appear to be dead. I tried to hook it up according to monaco diagram brown and green to the 2 blue therm wires and go to turn on the thermostat to test it and the thermostat no longer has power. so I hook it back up the way it was and gained power back to the thermostat. I don't feel like the ac control module should be getting its 12v from the AH controller it should be getting it to the 12v distribution panel. Right? I have had a Aqua Hot expert come and look at it and he only deals with the aqua hot itself. He tried a new control board and that wasn't the issue. he said the AH is working fine and that it was a communication issue/ wiring issue on the coach end. I have also replaced the 5 button thermostat with a microaire easy touch which made absolutely no difference. does anyone have a or can get me a picture of the 6 pin connector wiring under the ac return air vent of the front and back ac units ? I feel as tho someone has the ac's wiring hooked up all wrong. 

From the TOP.  There are, as you have been told or know, TWO controllers for the HVAC.  On the 15KW, the controller is assessible from the outside.  On the 13.5KW, they are in the Plenum.

There are the TWO INFAMOUS blue wires.  When the Dometic 5 button Thermostat calls for HEAT....two things have to have been done.

The Control Modules (this assumes ONE thermostat) must be configured correctly.  Dometic Zone 1 does NOT have any ZONE selection and the FURNACE DIP is on.  The rear one, Zone 2, must have the Zone 2 and the FURNACE ON... 

NOW, there are two wires from each controller going to the Aquahot.  When the controller and the thermostat see the need for HEAT....or TURN ON THE AH, there is only one thing that happens,.  The TWO BLue Wires, inside the harness are CONNECTED.  Think of a LIGHT SWITCH.  If you look at the AH wiring panel.  You can "SHORE" the thermostat terminals on Zone 5.  That will then start a pump and the fan terminals will have 12 VDC running to the heat exchanger.  THAT assumes that the pumps and check valves are OK and the system will produce hot water.  SOMETIMES the check valves will stick...so you hit, lightly tap with a normal screwdriver handle, the pump housing and there is a check valve inside.

Here are some prints for you... go to the end of the install ones...can't remember which....it goes OVER how to program and reset and do the wiring.  It is about the same as another member posted

Read the installation and go to almost the end.  Tells all about it.

The other two are typical....and your system, since it has AH Z5 for the FRONT is the same.

Look at them....get the wiring to the Control Modules fixed.  Use a LONG piece of 18 gauge Hook up wire and an alligator clip and find the TWO wires to each of the thermostats on the AH.  Then, get them put on the right wires on the Control Module.

Check the DIPS.  Do a factory reset.

Make sure the AH does not have a flashing red LOW BATTERY light.

This will fix it.

 

2006 Windsor Camelot Scepter Roof HVAC Print.pdf Windsor Aquahot Wiring.pdf Dometic-Heat-Pump-Parts-List-3309305.005.pdf 630516 Penquin Install manual.pdf Duotherm Penguin Installation.pdf

[06Windsor]

Interesting. So your red and black wires that are connected to the pair of white wires and pair of black wires. Is that in the front ac or the back of the coach. after seeing these I feel like I'm on to something. I just need to find out what the previous owns have done. Do you have aqua hot ? I'm guessing your 2 blue wires that are connected to the blue wire and the white wire go straight to your furnace controller.

[06Windsor]

14 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

From the TOP.  There are, as you have been told or know, TWO controllers for the HVAC.  On the 15KW, the controller is assessible from the outside.  On the 13.5KW, they are in the Plenum.

There are the TWO INFAMOUS blue wires.  When the Dometic 5 button Thermostat calls for HEAT....two things have to have been done.

The Control Modules (this assumes ONE thermostat) must be configured correctly.  Dometic Zone 1 does NOT have any ZONE selection and the FURNACE DIP is on.  The rear one, Zone 2, must have the Zone 2 and the FURNACE ON... 

NOW, there are two wires from each controller going to the Aquahot.  When the controller and the thermostat see the need for HEAT....or TURN ON THE AH, there is only one thing that happens,.  The TWO BLue Wires, inside the harness are CONNECTED.  Think of a LIGHT SWITCH.  If you look at the AH wiring panel.  You can "SHORE" the thermostat terminals on Zone 5.  That will then start a pump and the fan terminals will have 12 VDC running to the heat exchanger.  THAT assumes that the pumps and check valves are OK and the system will produce hot water.  SOMETIMES the check valves will stick...so you hit, lightly tap with a normal screwdriver handle, the pump housing and there is a check valve inside.

Here are some prints for you... go to the end of the install ones...can't remember which....it goes OVER how to program and reset and do the wiring.  It is about the same as another member posted

Read the installation and go to almost the end.  Tells all about it.

The other two are typical....and your system, since it has AH Z5 for the FRONT is the same.

Look at them....get the wiring to the Control Modules fixed.  Use a LONG piece of 18 gauge Hook up wire and an alligator clip and find the TWO wires to each of the thermostats on the AH.  Then, get them put on the right wires on the Control Module.

Check the DIPS.  Do a factory reset.

Make sure the AH does not have a flashing red LOW BATTERY light.

This will fix it.

 

2006 Windsor Camelot Scepter Roof HVAC Print.pdf 190.33 kB · 1 download Windsor Aquahot Wiring.pdf 3.13 MB · 1 download Dometic-Heat-Pump-Parts-List-3309305.005.pdf 114.44 kB · 1 download 630516 Penquin Install manual.pdf 421.91 kB · 1 download Duotherm Penguin Installation.pdf 727.78 kB · 1 download

Ok that’s what I was thinking. Someone has hooked them up wrong. And both of my control modules are in the outside under the top cover. Now I need to find out what happened to the original 12v power wires. Maybe they got shoved into the roof somewhere.  Thank you. I’m gonna be checking this out after work today. 

[06Windsor]

Thank y'all for your quick replies. gives me an avenue to go this afternoon when I get off work.

[06Windsor]

18 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

From the TOP.  There are, as you have been told or know, TWO controllers for the HVAC.  On the 15KW, the controller is assessible from the outside.  On the 13.5KW, they are in the Plenum.

There are the TWO INFAMOUS blue wires.  When the Dometic 5 button Thermostat calls for HEAT....two things have to have been done.

The Control Modules (this assumes ONE thermostat) must be configured correctly.  Dometic Zone 1 does NOT have any ZONE selection and the FURNACE DIP is on.  The rear one, Zone 2, must have the Zone 2 and the FURNACE ON... 

NOW, there are two wires from each controller going to the Aquahot.  When the controller and the thermostat see the need for HEAT....or TURN ON THE AH, there is only one thing that happens,.  The TWO BLue Wires, inside the harness are CONNECTED.  Think of a LIGHT SWITCH.  If you look at the AH wiring panel.  You can "SHORE" the thermostat terminals on Zone 5.  That will then start a pump and the fan terminals will have 12 VDC running to the heat exchanger.  THAT assumes that the pumps and check valves are OK and the system will produce hot water.  SOMETIMES the check valves will stick...so you hit, lightly tap with a normal screwdriver handle, the pump housing and there is a check valve inside.

Here are some prints for you... go to the end of the install ones...can't remember which....it goes OVER how to program and reset and do the wiring.  It is about the same as another member posted

Read the installation and go to almost the end.  Tells all about it.

The other two are typical....and your system, since it has AH Z5 for the FRONT is the same.

Look at them....get the wiring to the Control Modules fixed.  Use a LONG piece of 18 gauge Hook up wire and an alligator clip and find the TWO wires to each of the thermostats on the AH.  Then, get them put on the right wires on the Control Module.

Check the DIPS.  Do a factory reset.

Make sure the AH does not have a flashing red LOW BATTERY light.

This will fix it.

 

2006 Windsor Camelot Scepter Roof HVAC Print.pdf 190.33 kB · 1 download Windsor Aquahot Wiring.pdf 3.13 MB · 1 download Dometic-Heat-Pump-Parts-List-3309305.005.pdf 114.44 kB · 1 download 630516 Penquin Install manual.pdf 421.91 kB · 1 download Duotherm Penguin Installation.pdf 727.78 kB · 1 download

ok so on a good note. I was correct on my thoughts. it is hooked up wrong. I unhooked the wires that someone hooked up in the front ac. I put the brown and green together to test the aqua hot and the circulation pumps came along with the exchanger fans. so I attached the "infamous blue wires " to the green and brown wires. and introduced a separate 12v and ground to the red and black wires to power the ac control board. I turned it all on and it works as it should. I just need to know how to be able to pull the wires thru the roof for my separate power and ground. you would think the factory would have already had them there but I cant find them and it don't appear that you can access the roof harness at all unless I'm messing something. I have other issues with the HVAC but I might make a separate post on them. 

[Tom Cherry]

20 minutes ago, 06Windsor said:

ok so on a good note. I was correct on my thoughts. it is hooked up wrong. I unhooked the wires that someone hooked up in the front ac. I put the brown and green together to test the aqua hot and the circulation pumps came along with the exchanger fans. so I attached the "infamous blue wires " to the green and brown wires. and introduced a separate 12v and ground to the red and black wires to power the ac control board. I turned it all on and it works as it should. I just need to know how to be able to pull the wires thru the roof for my separate power and ground. you would think the factory would have already had them there but I cant find them and it don't appear that you can access the roof harness at all unless I'm messing something. I have other issues with the HVAC but I might make a separate post on them. 

GREAT.... and glad it is working.  Here's HOW it should work...if you look at the print.  There is a continuous 12 VDC line run from the House Distribution panel to every AC.  That is how it SHOULD have been and probably is in 99.9% of the cases.  And, according to the "Installation manual" as well as discussing with our resident electronics guru, Dometic "says" you only need DC power to ONE control module for the MPX (Multiplexed) thermostats to work. 

NOW....did you check every fuse in the House distribution panel.  My HVAC circuit is NOT labeled.  It is the "Satellite" fuse.  Monaco often combined circuits, especially LOW DRAW...as in Milliamps and put them on one circuit.  I would personally either test..pulling out with a meter or just replace the 10 amp fuses in the house panel.  MAYBE...so I can't say "ODDS ARE", that if the Thermostat is on a circuit like a HEC then, the fuse is bad.  THAT should solve the issues.

You obviously have the skills to determine that the Control Module ain't getting power.   

NOW....one other "QUIRKS which drive folks crazy"  Follow the logic. The communications cable has two 2 pair leads.  One pair is the VOLTAGE to supply the entire system.  There is NO DC line going to the Thermostat.  There is, redundancy, a 12 VDC line to EVERY Control module....thus if one dies....the 12 VDC from the Data cable will make it work.  The other pair is the MPX data signal.

The MOST COMMON problem is that vibration, temperature changes, dirt, whatever OFTEN cause the Inline Data Cable connectors to "LOOSE" the signal.  If I have $25 for every time that a member has "Cleaned" and plugged and unplugged all the data connections and wrote back...IT WORKS...  I'd have over $2500 cash....yes over a hundred....over the year's....and NOT an exaggeration.

SO, I would use alcohol and a Q-tip and clean the internal connections and the external male ends.  I actually carry new spares.  Then plug and UNPLUG.  Then you MUST do a System RESET.  Thermostat OFF.  Hold in Mode and Zone....turn on.  FF and it is RESET.  BTW, the weak link...the switch.  Most of us trying to hang on use the MODE to turn it on and off and NEVER use the switch...except to reset.

All of the above to say.  ODDS ARE....there IS a 12 VDC line up there.  Now if the system acted funny and some unknowing individual got creative.....all bets are off.

BUT....one Control Module and a GOOD data Cable connection....properly reset or booted up....WILL MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK....I don't have any idea how you can get in the ceiling.  BUT, if you can't make it work.  The way is to find the duct that runs front to rear.  ODDS ARE...not on the shower side.  Then use a wire snake and pull a 12 VDC line.  When the cables go bad (Monaco drove a staple into one), folks run a new data cable from one unit to the other.  It is commonly done....how bad...depends on your skills and patience and ingenuity....but they are usually fixed.

That's my take and advice and also some info for you.

IF YOU RESET the Thermostat AFTER you did the rewiring without the ADDITIONAL 12 VDC....it may have worked....  BUT, again....as long as the thermostat lights up....at least ONE of the Control Modules have a 12 VDC source...and Dometic says only ONE is needed...but what do they know?

[06Windsor]

31 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

GREAT.... and glad it is working.  Here's HOW it should work...if you look at the print.  There is a continuous 12 VDC line run from the House Distribution panel to every AC.  That is how it SHOULD have been and probably is in 99.9% of the cases.  And, according to the "Installation manual" as well as discussing with our resident electronics guru, Dometic "says" you only need DC power to ONE control module for the MPX (Multiplexed) thermostats to work. 

NOW....did you check every fuse in the House distribution panel.  My HVAC circuit is NOT labeled.  It is the "Satellite" fuse.  Monaco often combined circuits, especially LOW DRAW...as in Milliamps and put them on one circuit.  I would personally either test..pulling out with a meter or just replace the 10 amp fuses in the house panel.  MAYBE...so I can't say "ODDS ARE", that if the Thermostat is on a circuit like a HEC then, the fuse is bad.  THAT should solve the issues.

You obviously have the skills to determine that the Control Module ain't getting power.   

NOW....one other "QUIRKS which drive folks crazy"  Follow the logic. The communications cable has two 2 pair leads.  One pair is the VOLTAGE to supply the entire system.  There is NO DC line going to the Thermostat.  There is, redundancy, a 12 VDC line to EVERY Control module....thus if one dies....the 12 VDC from the Data cable will make it work.  The other pair is the MPX data signal.

The MOST COMMON problem is that vibration, temperature changes, dirt, whatever OFTEN cause the Inline Data Cable connectors to "LOOSE" the signal.  If I have $25 for every time that a member has "Cleaned" and plugged and unplugged all the data connections and wrote back...IT WORKS...  I'd have over $2500 cash....yes over a hundred....over the year's....and NOT an exaggeration.

SO, I would use alcohol and a Q-tip and clean the internal connections and the external male ends.  I actually carry new spares.  Then plug and UNPLUG.  Then you MUST do a System RESET.  Thermostat OFF.  Hold in Mode and Zone....turn on.  FF and it is RESET.  BTW, the weak link...the switch.  Most of us trying to hang on use the MODE to turn it on and off and NEVER use the switch...except to reset.

All of the above to say.  ODDS ARE....there IS a 12 VDC line up there.  Now if the system acted funny and some unknowing individual got creative.....all bets are off.

BUT....one Control Module and a GOOD data Cable connection....properly reset or booted up....WILL MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK....I don't have any idea how you can get in the ceiling.  BUT, if you can't make it work.  The way is to find the duct that runs front to rear.  ODDS ARE...not on the shower side.  Then use a wire snake and pull a 12 VDC line.  When the cables go bad (Monaco drove a staple into one), folks run a new data cable from one unit to the other.  It is commonly done....how bad...depends on your skills and patience and ingenuity....but they are usually fixed.

That's my take and advice and also some info for you.

IF YOU RESET the Thermostat AFTER you did the rewiring without the ADDITIONAL 12 VDC....it may have worked....  BUT, again....as long as the thermostat lights up....at least ONE of the Control Modules have a 12 VDC source...and Dometic says only ONE is needed...but what do they know?

Ok so since I just read this. It brings me to a couple more questions. So your saying if one ac unit has the 12v going to it. it will feed the other ac unit thru the telephone cable. correct ? Reason for asking is that my power distribution panel has a fuse for the ac and the same color wire that is on it is feeding the rear ac. This should be my system 12v feed for both units . Correct ? And second question is about the telephone cable ports P1 AND P2. How do I determine which is which and does it matter which cord is attached to which connector ? They are not labeled underneath which connector is which. My thoughts now could be are the out of sync causing my power lose on the front ac unit ? The rear unit has 1 telephone cable and the front has 2 cables 1 thermostat cable and one linking the rear ac unit. Could my rear cable being plugged into the wrong connecter cause my lose of voltage to the front ac unit.

[Tom Cherry]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:34 AM, 06Windsor said:

Ok so since I just read this. It brings me to a couple more questions. So your saying if one ac unit has the 12v going to it. it will feed the other ac unit thru the telephone cable. correct ? Reason for asking is that my power distribution panel has a fuse for the ac and the same color wire that is on it is feeding the rear ac. This should be my system 12v feed for both units . Correct ? And second question is about the telephone cable ports P1 AND P2. How do I determine which is which and does it matter which cord is attached to which connector ? They are not labeled underneath which connector is which. My thoughts now could be are the out of sync causing my power lose on the front ac unit ? The rear unit has 1 telephone cable and the front has 2 cables 1 thermostat cable and one linking the rear ac unit. Could my rear cable being plugged into the wrong connecter cause my lose of voltage to the front ac unit.

According to Dometic, as long as ONE of the control units has 12 VDC, that is enough to power all the units…..  NOW, just to fry your brain…some of the later Dynasties had a FOURTH Zone, dedicated to a small Aquahot register.  I THINK that unit or the control module did NOT have a DC lone, so, yes, the power from either Zone’s 1, 2, or 3….assuming only ONE Thermostat will provide 12 VDC.  SO, Monaco actually did a good job here.  There is ONLY one fuse (mine, of all things, says SATELLITE) for the HVAC 12 VDC power. Monaco ran that line to each rooftop zone. FWIW…the 15K control modules are only accessible from the extrrior, cover off, roof side. The 13.5 K has the control module in the Plenum….on the INSIDE.

Next up, there is NO POLARITY….. the communication or data cable can come in EITHER WAY….bi- directional….  SO, plug away….dealer’s choice.

NOW…whatever the last zone is in the system, there will only be ONE data Cable coming in….so, on a TYPICAL system….Single Thermostat….the Thermostat is on the wall.  There is a data cable to the front AC.  Technically, what you see is two cables…..and two “hanging down”. The incoming thermostat line is usually NOT marked.  You plug it into one of the data cables (via the dual inline connectors) to the data cable hanging down.  Now….i may be WRONG….but the Installation instructions say to “route the data cable UP.  i think that Monaco chose to have two short cables plugged into the control module.  So, there is ALSO two data cable ports on the module.   Bottom lone….the thermostat comes in…dual inline to a data cable going up which is then terminated into the control module…

THEN it comes back down…..and the OTHER data cable runs to the middle (if there is one) unit same here….if it is a smaller middle 13.5K , supposedly the cables plug into the control board.  I don’t have any 13.5K ….then the data cable goes back to the bedroom.  If a 15K unit, then there will be an unused (Monaco usually put an inline connector on it) .  The data cable from the middle goes into the connector and UP to the controller….since this is the end of the line….the other end is not needed.

It there are two thermostats…..then typically, the front is zone 1 on the front thermostat

NOW, the rear bedroom will have a thermostat.  Then the rear bedroom is zone 1 and the middle is zone 2.  The ZONE designation is controlled by a DIP switch on each unit.

Depending on the units and the style of the ceiling panel (plain or trayed), the dual inline connectors from the data cable to the cables hanging down will be above whatever you pull off to change the filter…..

RARELY, but it might happen, is the data cable connection on the control module (presumably from the roof side) an issue.  The vibrating and dangling dual inline connectors are the culprit in 90+ % of the OMG….no connection….lost a zone….it don’t work on all functions or modes.

It IS possible for a control module to fail, but still pass through the signal. That control module will not be visible or not work on all functions.  Folks troubleshoot by swapping the front to the rear and the  seeing if the zone disappears..

That’s it…