Cummins ISL Overhead

[Joel J]

There are pits in the cylinder walls of the block itself, so they are saying that they can't put new sleeves in. 

[Guest Ray Davis]

A used motorhome engine might make more sense, but Cummins may not play that way.

https://rvchassisparts.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/md/M121356/s1.pl?

[Joel J]

I wonder what a used engine would cost, and how to find one.

A local shop said they could do it for about $6K.

[Frank McElroy]

1 hour ago, Joel J said:

There are pits in the cylinder walls of the block itself, so they are saying that they can't put new sleeves in. 

I'm sorry but I'm just not buying the statement that the cylinder block sleeve sealing surfaces are so pitted that the sleeves can't be replaced. Sure, maybe after 2 or 3 engine rebuilds maybe. 

For this determination, they would have already pulled out all the cylinder sleeves for inspection.  Did they do that and show you pictures of the pitted block surfaces where the sleeve seals?

[Joel J]

No pictures yet.  I have owned the coach for 10 years, no major repairs. I may be able to go down there and see for myself this week. 

[Frank McElroy]

7 minutes ago, Joel J said:

No pictures yet.  I have owned the coach for 10 years, no major repairs. I may be able to go down there and see for myself this week. 

It's a good thing you are going there to inspect yourself.  First they tell you that pitting is so bad the cylinders can't be bored. Assuming you have an ISL, you don't bore the cylinders you replace the cylinder liner sleeves.  For there to be that much pitting in the head the coolant Ph must have been very acidic.  If you kept up on coolant testing that simply shouldn't happen.

Curious, if you had that much sleeve liner pitting, did the engine hydrolock because coolant got into the cylinder after shut down and were you towed in?

[Joel J]

It is a ISL 400. I'm not mechanical and I don't recall ever having the coolant checked for Ph.  The first report from Cummins said there was scoring on 4 cylinders. I suppose when they got the sleeves out  that is when the cylinder pits were found.

I want to get out of  RVing due my age. I am just trying to figure out my best option. Get a new engine to sell it,  or try sell it as is. Either way I expect to take a beating!

[jacwjames]

 

2 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

A used motorhome engine might make more sense, but Cummins may not play that way.

https://rvchassisparts.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/md/M121356/s1.pl?

I was going to suggest the same thing Ray did.  But looking at this listing it says $16K core charge, which in most cases implies a good core.  I would call Visione and talk to them.  They have a huge inventory of salvaged rigs.  I was up there ~3 weeks ago and they just got in a Monaco that looked like it had had roof damage, so engine was probably good and might have had your size engine.  If not tell them what you need as they do not list everything they have in inventory.

 

When I was working and responsible for maintenance I learned real fast to "Trust but Verify".  We got some rebuilds back that weren't great, had to send a couple back for problems that should have been caught.

I started questioning everything to the extent that when we had an engine rebuilt the repair shop had to call me so I could go watch it run on a dyno.   Initially I'd go watch every engine run, so this meant a trip to the shop once or twice a month on average but it paid off will more reliable rebuilds.  Over a period of time I started to reduce the number of times I actually went to watch and engine dyno, they would still have to call but I'd just tell them to run it and if I didn't show up just send me the report.  Amazing how many problems went away.

Hopefully the shop will send you pictures that you can post here. 

Where are you located???

Do you have any friends who are mechanically inclined who can accompany you when you go visit the shop.   That person could confirm what the shop is telling you.  

[96 EVO]

32 minutes ago, Joel J said:

It is a ISL 400. I'm not mechanical and I don't recall ever having the coolant checked for Ph.  The first report from Cummins said there was scoring on 4 cylinders. I suppose when they got the sleeves out  that is when the cylinder pits were found.

I want to get out of  RVing due my age. I am just trying to figure out my best option. Get a new engine to sell it,  or try sell it as is. Either way I expect to take a beating!

Tough position to be in!

Cummins probably don't want to do an in frame rebuild, due to the extra hassle in a coach.

A replacement engine makes them more money, and probably easier to do!  

[Joel J]

I am hoping to get photographs early this next week. Cummins does not seem to be a very fast operation here in Spokane. 

What does the 16K core charge mean?  If my cylinder walls are pitted  beyond specs that will mean I don't have a core to trade back. Right?

 I'm going to ask around the neighborhood see if there's a good mechanic I can take with me.

 I will be calling vizione tomorrow.

 Thanks

 

[96 EVO]

Good luck!

Research All of your options, cause, a brand new engine in your coach doesn't make it worth much more money!

[Joel J]

Yes, I think this bus may be worth 90 to a 110K at tops.

 

 

[Guest Ray Davis]

12 hours ago, Joel J said:

What does the 16K core charge mean?  If my cylinder walls are pitted  beyond specs that will mean I don't have a core to trade back. Right?

$16K is the engine price, and they want an old engine, or there will be a core charge.  In all likelihood, the core charge will be determined by the core condition, which may be scrap iron.  I would call Visone and honestly discuss your position.  Undoubtedly, they have been down this road before and might be able to guide you.

 

[Guest Ray Davis]

Communicating with Cummins by phone may not be the best way in this case.  Email or text gives you a record to keep and to figure out what did he say.          Mechanics jargon may have a different meaning to the man on the street, whereas here individuals can help interpret what they are saying.

[beemerman]

I was Maintenance Mgr for a trucking company for over 40 years and have seen a lot of engines in that time.  If the counterbores are in good shape then it is very rare that the block is unusable.  The cylinder liners are sealed to the block for coolant using o-rings and if that area is pitted it can be repaired using something like J B Weld.  The block  just needs a smooth enough surface for the o-rings to seal.  The counter bores do the hard work of sealing compression and locating the liner in the block.  Reconditioning the counter bores is very common and Cummins has shims and tooling needed.

Good luck with your project.

[jacwjames]

21 minutes ago, beemerman said:

I was Maintenance Mgr for a trucking company for over 40 years and have seen a lot of engines in that time.  If the counterbores are in good shape then it is very rare that the block is unusable.  The cylinder liners are sealed to the block for coolant using o-rings and if that area is pitted it can be repaired using something like J B Weld.  The block  just needs a smooth enough surface for the o-rings to seal.  The counter bores do the hard work of sealing compression and locating the liner in the block.  Reconditioning the counter bores is very common and Cummins has shims and tooling needed.

Good luck with your project.

There you go.

In the back of my mind I was thinking the same thing but most of the engines I dealt with didn't use sleeves. 

We used Devcon products in mining to rebuild surfaces on pumps, these are similar to JBWeld.  Pretty easy to work with and sandable.  No doubt any questionable areas could be built up and resurfaced using sandpaper and/or hone. 

But a Cummins shop will not want to do this in the slim chance there is a problem for warranty purposes.  

[Joel J]

Here is the latest.  Cummins wants to put in rebuilt engine for $56592.  I think that would be a bad move, considering the market value.

What I would like to do is sell it "as is" and someone else can put a engine in it.  I found an engine at Visionrv for $10K

Cummins will not do the install.

 https://www.monacocoach.com/library/2006/2006_Dynasty.pdf

Our coach is the 42 Countess III, on page 8, Classic Cherry cabs, 77K Miles.

Upgraded: Samsung household frig, 1 year old Convection Microwave, New Chasis batteries, 2 New Tag axle tires, 6 Michelin tires, LED lighting, 8 cabin batts, upgraded inverter, upgraded wiper system.

Engine is Cummins ISL400  

The coach  is in Spokane,  if any one is interested in a project, let me know.

Thanks everyone !

[Rocketman3]

Go talk to a few (Not-Cummins) Diesel mechanics in your area.  They may be slow right now because the farming is in winter so you may be able to get them to do the install.

 

Good Luck

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, Joel J said:

Here is the latest.  Cummins wants to put in rebuilt engine for $56592.  I think that would be a bad move, considering the market value.

What I would like to do is sell it "as is" and someone else can put a engine in it.  I found an engine at Visionrv for $10K

Cummins will not do the install.

 

None of this is a shock to me!

Cummins is used to dealing with trucking companies that have deep pockets, and downtime costs money!

You need to look elsewhere.

[jacwjames]

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

None of this is a shock to me!

Cummins is used to dealing with trucking companies that have deep pockets, and downtime costs money!

You need to look elsewhere.

Agree with the above.

If you found an engine that would fit and is running for $10K I'd try to find a local shop willing to install.  My guess ~$15K to for the labor to swap.  This is just a swag. 

Cummins does not want to deal with a used engine, not enough margin in it for them.  Larger trucking companies want rigs back on the Road ASAP and are willing to pay for it no questions asked. 

We use to do the same thing in the mining complex I worked at, we always needed it yesterday.  We'd try to watch/control costs but downtime costs much more.  The shops we dealt with knew this and would charge accordingly.  Viscous world. 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by jacwjames