Harsh ride on my 36 ft HR Endeavor

[Rikadoo]

morning everyone so I need to get some clarity on my ride condition. like it says in the header I have a 36 ft coach and its ride is that of what my 30 ft gasser on a truck chassis used to be. I just completed a 5500 mile trip in which there were patches of bad road that was so bad it felt as though stuff was going to break.

Now before we all get started in sharing there are a couple things you need to know, one is I replaced all the shocks that helped sooooo much with the body sway, next was due to the horrific feeling of loss of control in the parts of the Sierras I installed the Watts link up front, prior to my trip I had come to realize I was tail dragging as I realized my mud flap was getting shorter. So looking at the way it travels down the road my nose is always up higher than my rear, initially the front was 9 inches from plate to plate on the front air bag, where as the rears were less than that by almost 1/2 in. so looking at the rear air valve adjusters (tight fit for this ole fat boy) one side was maxed out and the other had a slight amount to adjust, so yes I adjusted it to match the other, now it brought the back up 1/4 in what appeared to make quite a bit difference for handling and ride, it lasted for about 900 miles, then it went back to the front riding up again. one thing to add is when its up like it does I seem to have "wander" when driving, then hitting what I felt was a small pothole at slow speeds I managed to rip the rear flap off. after watching the you tube about the roadmaster chassis I looked at the distance of there front tire in regard to the cutout of the fender, there's seem to be almost level with the top of the tire, which IS NOT THE CASE WITH MINE, coming off the road to park I can make a fist and still have room between the tire and the fender. now I understand there is a major difference with ride in longer, heavier coaches, I work on them and the difference is quite notable. at my shop I don't have a pit so repairs as it relates to deflate, adjust and refill is limited and im considering going up north to get the work done. my question is before I even consider that do these "shorter rigs" have a gentile ride.

My owners manual does state the front bags should be 9" and the rears to be 11" that if correct it is a 2" difference from front to rear. On my adjustments I have the ability for minor and major adjustments, up to this point I have only used the minor adjustments. then there is the question 11" if using that spec that would load the front axel with more weight which in my estimation would reduce the "wander" and should smooth out the ride but 2" is gonna really load the bags out of there normal position.

So my question is how do the shorties ride? is there just not enough weight for the 8 air bags so there ride is by design more harsh, should I adjust to the factory specs being 11" in in the rear, which in my estimation would have me make a major adjustment then recalibrate the minor.

FYI, I have read past blogs concerning this issue however im just not convinced 9" frt and rear is relative to shorter rigs, and frankly I have not paid attention as to the position of the u-joints in relation to level or not. Thanks for any info😎 

[Tom Cherry]

8 minutes ago, Rikadoo said:

morning everyone so I need to get some clarity on my ride condition. like it says in the header I have a 36 ft coach and its ride is that of what my 30 ft gasser on a truck chassis used to be. I just completed a 5500 mile trip in which there were patches of bad road that was so bad it felt as though stuff was going to break.

Now before we all get started in sharing there are a couple things you need to know, one is I replaced all the shocks that helped sooooo much with the body sway, next was due to the horrific feeling of loss of control in the parts of the Sierras I installed the Watts link up front, prior to my trip I had come to realize I was tail dragging as I realized my mud flap was getting shorter. So looking at the way it travels down the road my nose is always up higher than my rear, initially the front was 9 inches from plate to plate on the front air bag, where as the rears were less than that by almost 1/2 in. so looking at the rear air valve adjusters (tight fit for this ole fat boy) one side was maxed out and the other had a slight amount to adjust, so yes I adjusted it to match the other, now it brought the back up 1/4 in what appeared to make quite a bit difference for handling and ride, it lasted for about 900 miles, then it went back to the front riding up again. one thing to add is when its up like it does I seem to have "wander" when driving, then hitting what I felt was a small pothole at slow speeds I managed to rip the rear flap off. after watching the you tube about the roadmaster chassis I looked at the distance of there front tire in regard to the cutout of the fender, there's seem to be almost level with the top of the tire, which IS NOT THE CASE WITH MINE, coming off the road to park I can make a fist and still have room between the tire and the fender. now I understand there is a major difference with ride in longer, heavier coaches, I work on them and the difference is quite notable. at my shop I don't have a pit so repairs as it relates to deflate, adjust and refill is limited and im considering going up north to get the work done. my question is before I even consider that do these "shorter rigs" have a gentile ride.

My owners manual does state the front bags should be 9" and the rears to be 11" that if correct it is a 2" difference from front to rear. On my adjustments I have the ability for minor and major adjustments, up to this point I have only used the minor adjustments. then there is the question 11" if using that spec that would load the front axel with more weight which in my estimation would reduce the "wander" and should smooth out the ride but 2" is gonna really load the bags out of there normal position.

So my question is how do the shorties ride? is there just not enough weight for the 8 air bags so there ride is by design more harsh, should I adjust to the factory specs being 11" in in the rear, which in my estimation would have me make a major adjustment then recalibrate the minor.

FYI, I have read past blogs concerning this issue however im just not convinced 9" frt and rear is relative to shorter rigs, and frankly I have not paid attention as to the position of the u-joints in relation to level or not. Thanks for any info😎 

BACK TO BASICS...

Set your RIDE HEIGHT for the proper numbers. If you are unsure, then call Josam's and ask for Barry or send him an email. He has a CHART for your MH.  Henderson's in Oregon should also have that information. Go to the following Link.... There are THREE files in it.  The first one has your information.

The procedure is the same for all.  You have ONE valve in the front. That controls the front as the front axle pivots.  You find a level place....drive around and come back to it.  Pull in...this assumes you don't come in at a funky angle...  Then you measure from the top to bottom plates on each airbag. That is the SIDE or SURFACE that touches or is where the bag is mounted.  Said another way...  you measure from the lower side or edge of the top plate to the upper side or edge of the bottom plate. Some folks make us a gauge from wooden dowel....it depends.....  Others use a tape measure.  You then average the FRONT measurements....and that is what is going on. They should be close...  THE OTHER METHOD....and this works on a Valid Power Gear system... DUMP the BAGS.  Turn off the engine...  then restart and immediately PRESS the TRAVEL HEIGHT. That should work.... or you dump the air tanks....not a bad thing to do.  Start the engine.  it will air up and select the Travel Height....

MEASURE and ADJUST.

Rear is the SAME...except you adjust the valve on each side. They are a bit "interconnected" so you have to do it slowly.  Then get them right.

OK...ROUGH RIDE is a FUNCTION of SHOCK ABSORBERS and TIRE PRESSURE and AIR BAGS working like they should. IF you are "loosing" your Air Bag Settings, time to troubleshoot and probably replace the valves or check the Limit Switches.

You say the RIDE HEIGHT was 2" apart. I downloaded your manual. I THINK the dimensions were the set points for the rod arm....but the FIRST STEP is to measure the plates.  If you call Josams and ask Barry, he has the OFFICIAL specs and has set thousands of MH's to them. It is HELPFUL to have a pit...but you can adjust the valves, assuming you can shinny UNDER the MH.  

That's about it.  if you MAL adjusted the MH by using the specs for the rod and think that was the specs for the plates...that MAY WELL BE YOUR issue... according to the chart that we have your Endeavor is 8-5/16" FRONT and 8-13/16" REAR...  SO, set that correctly.  See if if "HOLDS"?  If not, then start checking for air leaks or a bad valve or find a shop that CAN Troubleshoot and Adjust Ride Height....

That's it...

NOW, I don't know what Shocks you put on.  If you put on the cheaper Monroes and such, they wear out like dragging your foot to stop a motorcycle.  My OEM's were crappy after less than 10K miles and then they bucked or porposied like a roller coaster.  My GK's wanted me to turn around and go back over a draw bridge entry as it was FUN.  My WIFE, on the other hand said....GET NEW SHOCKS OR I AIN"T RIDING.  Some like the Koni's... Some like the Aftermarket Bilsteins.  REAMS of words have been written, but the OLD Billstein Shock Guru said that he would NOT put the STOCK AFTERMARKET Bilsteins on any MONACO Chassis.  He was involved in Source Engineering development of the CORRECT Shock for the Monaco's and said there was NO comparison.  BUT, who knows.  Many folks like the softer ride of the cheaper Monroes, but they can swap them out after 10K and keep on driving....

 

[jacwjames]

Rik,

What are you running your tire pressures at.

 

[Rikadoo]

Im running the fronts at 115psi, the rears are at 100. konis are from source, and my rig does not have any suspension controls, it strictly operates operates with air pressure, the only control i have with my old rig is to dump the air feeding the valves to the bags.

[Tom Cherry]

8 hours ago, Rikadoo said:

Im running the fronts at 115psi, the rears are at 100. konis are from source, and my rig does not have any suspension controls, it strictly operates operates with air pressure, the only control i have with my old rig is to dump the air feeding the valves to the bags.

A little confused.  Source Engineering developed the Bilstein "CUSTOM VALVED" shocks that only Source can sell.  They are NOT the same as the Aftermarket Bilsteins sold for MH. Koni was the MAIN competitor or the shock that Source benchmarked and developed their shock to compete against. IF you bought shocks from Source, they would have been Bilstein CUSTOM VALVED. Otherwise, you would have to purchase Koni's from an authorized Koni dealer.

Your TP sound logical for your rig. My comments still stand. Get back to the RIGHT Ride Height.  Then make sure that the Ride Height Controls are working properly and are reliable.

The only OTHER enhancement, which some or maybe many have, is the Source Air Bag kits. They allow you to adjust the air specifically for each bag or each corner.

I think they call that the Ride Enhancement Kit. My Camelot has the larger Front Source shocks which are probably a bit harsher, but I have not felt the need to add a ride enhancement kit to them.

Getting the ride height controls and system fully and reliably operating has to be done first, otherwise, you are shooting at a moving target.

That's my take on it.  Others may differ...but with the Source shocks or the Koni's, your rig should ride nicely...  gotta be an issue with the ride height...as in the ride control module is making harsh adjustments....which COULD be attributed to the incorrect ride height that you have it adjusted for now...

[jacwjames]

Rik

What size tires do you have, what does the placard say for pressures.

I am probably much heavier then you, run 295/85R22.5 and my placard says 100 front 90 rear, I run 105 front and 95 rear.  

[Paul J A]

WEIGH YOUR COACH. Four , or Six corner weight is the best, but single axle weights will be OK too. Fuel and water full. Black and grey tanks empty with your stuff on board. CAT scales at many truck stops. Tell the clerk you want to weigh a coach. There is an intercom at the scale so you can communicate with the clerk. There will be 3 platforms for3 axles. Steer axle on the  first, Drive on the second, and if applicable, Tag on the third. Keep the ENGINE Running, so you stay at Ride Height.Get the print out from the clerk. IF you have a tag axle, you may have to adjust your DOWN pressure to move weight as needed, and after adjusting your down pressure on the tag, REWEIGH the coach.  Now go to YOUR tire Mfg. inflation charts for the correct COLD inflation.

AFTER You are done weighing your coach and have the CORRECT COLD INFLATION PRESSURE,  CALL sourcerv.com. 

THE EXPERTS on your chassis.

Ask for Jim or Scott.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Paul J A

[cpat_39]

Happy New Year, I have driven our 2000 Monaco Diplomat 36' for 12 years. Our coach was built by Holiday Rambler in IN. Several years ago I switched from Michelin 2.55/70/22.5 to Hankook 2.75/70/22.5 in 2019. I have always run lower pressure in front. I run 105 front and 110 rear. Tried 110 in front once and durn sold the coach road so harsh. I feel the Hankook's have given us a better ride and control. Did have coach weighed at each corner believe the 105/110 pressures are right.  Several  years ago realizing the original Monroe shocks were gone I replace al eight with Koni's. Due to what we felt as a harsh ride about a year later I removed Koni's on front and bought new Monroe's which improved ride a great deal. Only problem I again need to replace the Monroe's and think Monroe has stopped making them.. 

Somebody asked about the short wheelbase. Believe it rides firmer because of short wheelbase. But getting in out of tight spaces is quite easy.