vanwill52

Uh, BTW, I realize that sometimes my replies are wordy and long. But like Tom Cherry, I learned decades ago when writing "Operator's Manuals" for literarily-challenged machine operators, being verbose can USUALLY beat trying to make your "prose" great (as judged by your college English Literature professor). The professor would tell you to use pronouns instead of repeating the full name, and to use acronyms...or not repeating what you have already said. But if you want to be UNDERSTOOD by your everyday operator (like me), make what you write unequivocally clear, as opposed to being succinct, poetic, and short. Tom's posts may be long, but they are concise, and leave little if any room for misinterpretation. Thank you, Tom. I try to emulate your style. Thank you for your patience.

THANK YOU, MYRON TRUEX!!! I also need to thank Myron Truex, probably the greatest 12VDC guru on this forum. Long ago, Myron suggested I make up two 60 foot "test cables". One for NEGATIVE, and one for POSITIVE. With HUGE alligator clips on one end to attach DIRECTLY to a house or chassis battery terminal. Each one FUSED, of course. Whenever a problem baffles you, it's always a great help to have a "jumper cable" you can attach to the negative or positive of the chassis or house batteries when troubleshooting and connect to your VOM. With those cables, there will never be any of those moments when you wonder, "Do I have a TRUE +12VDC" or "Do I have a TRUE GROUND" when you are troubleshooting. I now have TWO cable reels. One has a BLACK lead I use for POSITIVE and one has a WHITE lead I use for GROUND. How important can that be? Well, Monaco used an unusual method of energizing electrical devices. Instead of a device having a solid, constant, never-changing GROUND terminal, they would instead supply the POSITIVE line to the device and switch the GROUND lead to energize the device. This has some relevance and efficacy in aircraft, which do the same type of electrical switching. I cannot say I understand it, but that is the way that Monaco did it. So when you are troubleshooting an electrical problem, you may or may not have a "true +12VDC" or a "true GROUND" when you think you have one or the other. Myron's method eliminates all doubt. As a further testament to Myron's way of troubleshooting, when my ECM failed, the very capable young man at an independent diesel heavy truck shop who did the troubleshooting on my ECM used a 5A FUSED wire much like Myron suggested. He used it to determine if a ground was TRULY a low-resistance "good" ground. He would connect one alligator clip to the negative battery terminal and touch his probe to the "supposedly good ground" he was suspicious of. If the fuse blew, he knew the ground was not solid. Thank you, Myron, for one of the best diagnostic tools in my toolkit!! You da boss, Bro!!

Thanks to Tom Cherry for all the info and wiring diagrams. Solution was not perfect, but got the mirrors working again. As Tom said, Fuse 51 feeds TWO items--Mirror directional control switch AND "Driver side reading light". In the case of this 2011 Camelot, there is some sort of direct-to-ground short in the reading light circuitry. WHETHER OR NOT the multi-pin connector is plugged into the mirror control switch, as soon as a fuse is plugged into the Fuse 51 slot, it instantly blows. BTW, Tom Moore's coach does not have the normal gooseneck map light like many coaches. His "reading light" is a puck light directly over the driver's seat. There is an identical puck light over Paula's chair (also called a "reading light"), but it is controlled by a rocker switch and works perfectly. (I joked with Tom, "You don't need a map light. You have the most fabulous navigator in the world in the passenger seat. Paula is absolutely AMAZING at navigating, determining which fuel stations have enough turnaround room, where is cheapest fuel, what campgrounds have the best looking lots, can make reservations on the fly...AMAZING NAVIGATOR!!!!) But I digress. I removed the "driver's reading light" (the puck light over the driver's seat). LED bulb was OK. Fixture was OK. Both connections ohmed out correctly. I was running out of time, because Tom and Paula had to leave early tomorrow morning. I ended up cutting the "Battery" wire (nicely marked on the wire by Monaco) going TO the multi-pin plug that connects to the mirror control switch and terminating it with fully insulated connector, so it could not short out against anything. To the other end of the "Battery" wire (coming FROM the connector that plugged into the mirror control switch), I connected to a fused wire attached directly to the "chassis" lug on the printed circuit board in the front run bay. So, essentially, I added a SEPARATE +12VDC feed to the mirror control switch that is ALWAYS ON, and not controlled by the ignition switch, but on a fused circuit, and NOT feeding the "driver side reading light". Yeah, that was the "slacker's way out", but I did not think I could find the short in the "driver's reading light" quickly enough to let Tom and Paula leave on schedule early the next morning...and controlling the mirrors was much more important than the "driver side reading light". Maybe one day I'll search out the short, but for now, the #51 fuse slot has NO fuse installed, and the mirror control switch is fed +12VDC from a separate fused line. As always, thanks for the extremely rapid response to a Monacoer in need (Tom Cherry actually called me on the phone to give me extra info, then emailed me diagrams I did not have). IRV2 is a great resource...but it pales in comparison to the help you can get from fellow Monacoers for a Monaco-specific problem. "Bill D's Monacoers" is the BOSS for all things Monaco. Thank you Dave Pratt and Scotty Hutto. You guys keep this site priceless. And thanks to Tom Cherry for the personal attention.

Harry, I used a total of four chains, one at each corner of my non-tag coach. I welded tabs with holes in them and bolted the chains to the tabs with Grade 8 bolts, washers and nuts. Easy job, but requires welding.

The most common failure is that the top shock mounts in the front are cantilevered and not sturdy enough to withstand the abuse. Once they break, they are a BITCH to replace, since they are usually in a very difficult place to weld.

Trying to help a friend. 2011 Camelot. BOTH mirrors inoperative with the mirror control switch. I pulled the connector from the back of the switch and there appears to be no power going to the switch. Simple, right?--just a fuse. But I haven't located the fuse yet. He has complete wiring diagrams, but curiously there is no listing of all fuses in the front run bay. I'm checking them one at a time now. Anyone know which number of fuse it is? Thanks!

It was just simpler that way. The axle is bolted rigidly to the H-frame. Stabilize the H-frame, and you have stabilized the axle.

On my 2000 Dynasty, once I realized that ONLY the shocks support all the axle weight (front or rear) when wheels are raised off the ground, I realized why so many coaches of that vintage had broken upper shock mounts. I welded on restraint chains that keep the shocks from supporting that weight. On Paul Whittle's coach, we welded on angle brackets to the coach frame and to the H-frame with holes to accommodate simple 5/8 rods threaded at each end. Strangely enough, even though I expected to hear chains rattling on my coach, and rods banging on Paul's coach, neither of us ever detected any noise whatsoever.

That appears to be one of the thirty (approximately) Watts links that I designed and prototyped as a "proof of concept" when I was searching for a cure for the Monaco "wandering". After the thirty units, the concept was proven successful and I furnished all the info I had to Mike Hughes and agreed to allow him to manufacture and sell the units without me benefiting in any way. I was only trying to satisfy my engineering curiosity when I designed it. Even though I owned a CNC machine shop, I had no desire to market the product. There have been several instances of the center Grade 8 5/8-11 bolt loosening in service. In hindsight, I wish I had made the bolt 3/4-10 instead of 5/8-11. However, most installations gave good service. I do not think Mike will be able to supply you the missing brass bushing and 5/8-11 bolt. Let me know what length bolt you need, and I will send you the bolt, locking nut, and brass bushing for free. Just pay $10 for packing and shipping. Van

The postmortem would be most welcomed. Too often we (me included) fail to report back the solution that many members have helped us find. You write very well. I'm sure your final report will be very valuable.

Not implying, or trying to, at all. Just that there are some folks here with an incredible skill set, that are always worth listening to. No offense intended.

When CERTAIN folks respond to a topic, they are ALWAYS worth listening to. Frank McElroy and Tom Cherry are two of those folks. Anything these two experts write is worth reading...and re-reading. There are several other folks worth listening to, so I hope no one feels slighted by my omission of their names. It just happens that there are a dozen or so folks on this forum that don't reply to EVERY post, but when they do--LISTEN! They are the ones like Dave Pratt, Ivan, Bob Nodine, jacwjames, and a half dozen others who won't tell you "You need an expert for that, so don't attempt it yourself." They will tell you how to "git 'er done".

I applaud those using a "common sense" approach to this problem. HOWEVER, should you wish to be entertained by the ramblings of extremists, look up any discussion related to "Should I be using RV-specific toilet tissue?". It will keep you laughing for as long as you read it.

I once suggested the same OBVIOUS thing to raise trans temp enough to get a reading on the Allison keypad. Someone chimed in, "I don't think I would want to subject the trans to that kind of abuse". I referred them to the Allison Service Manual, under the heading "FULL THROTTLE TEST", where the FACTORY MANUAL says to check for slipping clutches by applying WOT while in DRIVE and holding the service brakes. So, I hardly think applying MODEST throttle while holding the service brakes is an "abuse". Do so, and as Ivan said, the trans temp will rise very quickly, allowing you to do the Allison keypad test. Even on a forum like this one, where Bill D absolutely required technical literature backup or PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, there are still folks posting OPINIONS, rather than FACTS. A similar situation comes to mind in regard to operating the engine for a short period and not letting it come to full operating temperature before shutting down. For those of you that think Cummins meant you could NEVER operate the engine without allowing it to come to full operating temperature, let me assure you that my coach, with over 200,000 miles on the engine, will be cranked up and running for a few minutes EVERY time I move it out of the shed to wash it. Am I going to take a long drive before washing it? Short answer--"NO"...Long answer--"HELL, NO". "Someone" read something a Cummins manual stated, saying that "FREQUENT and REPEATED instances of running the engine for short periods will shorten engine life". It DID NOT say you had to take a 20-minute drive every time you cranked the engine, or your engine will crap out. And anal attention to tire pressure, based ONLY on an accurate individual tire weighing...don't get me started. No one pays more attention to tire life than trucking companies. How do you think THEY handle tire pressures? Guess!!! End of rant. Thanks for your patience.

I do not think your treadle valve is significantly more difficult to access than mine. I could "see" how I could have done it thirty years ago, so I assumed a flexible young man could do so. I was right. It took a bit of "pride-swallowing" to pay someone to do such a simple job, but the labor charge was only a couple of hours and was WELL WORTH IT. Of course, I have developed a close relationship with a heavy truck shop owned by Christian missionaries, whom I trust absolutely and completely. I trust them not only to give me an accurate estimate, but also to do quality work. I always discuss with them any particulars about how I want any job to be done. They have never disappointed me. It took several years of bringing them jobs too physically difficult for me to do myself, and being reasonable when they ran into "problems unforeseen". I also praised their efforts, tipped them, pay in greenbacks, and always donate to their Kenyan ministry. They own motor homes (gassers) and do quite a bit of work on motor homes. I mention this to bring home the fact that many of us, due to infirmity...or simply age...find some tasks that we are willing to pay someone to do for us, as long as we trust their integrity and skill. I would encourage all of you to develop a relationship with an INDEPENDENT truck shop. It may take several trips to their shop to have something done on your coach, and develop their trust in YOU, just as you develop your trust in THEM. Were it not for my relationship with this shop, I think I would have to resort to Cummins Coach Care for many tasks, and the closest one is many miles from me, not to mention their reputation for integrity and quality work is neither stellar nor ubiquitous. Have reasonable expectations, discuss your proposed job in detail, then see how they do. I add this as a final paragraph, in the event that Scotty or Dave think I should not mention a particular shop. But if they do not object, I ENTHUSIASTICALLY recommend Leenheer's Truck and Auto repair in Carthage, NC. They are a family business staffed by the husband-and-wife team of Jeff and Karen Leehheer, aided by their son Kyle (a very accomplished heavy truck mechanic), SIL Louie (the wiry guy who replaced my treadle valve and tubing), Brittany, and several friendly mechanics. This is not a shop that does only oil changes and replaces spark plugs (although they recently added a "quick oil change" to their repertoire in a separate building. Jeff pays a decent wage and only recruits outstanding mechanics. At any time, you will find their shop with the entire body of a heavy truck removed so they can replace the engine or other major component. They replaced both the engine and transmission in my 2000 Silverado in the last couple of years. Jeff PERSONALLY rebuilt the transfer case on the Silverado, since I did not want a "rebuilt assembly". I knew Jeff would do a better job than I would get from any "remanufacturing" supplier. Leenheer's services ALL my rolling stock. I have never been disappointed in them.

Yes, you do have to provide +12VDC and ground to the bottom of the ML-ACR, even if you do not install the remote switch. Those terminals power the electronics inside that determine when to activate the relay inside the ML-ACR.

My major air leak was from the CONNECTIONS to the treadle valve. I never verified the treadle valve itself leaked. But all the lines were cut too short and exited the treadle valve in a bind. The lines need to all leave straight out of the fittings, not pulled to one side. How did I replace it? I didn't do it myself...I'm just not flexible enough. I hired a wiry 20-something to contort himself in the confined space and fix the problem by splicing in additional line to each treadle valve connection, such that none would be under any strain to one side or another.

I've not followed this thread carefully, but I'll add that the fact that Monaco often supplied continuous POSITIVE 12VDC to many devices and turned them on or off by supplying a GROUND connection and that can be very confusing sometimes...you think a device has been "switched on" because +12VDC appears on its terminals. But it is not activated until a GROUND is supplied to the device. Additionally, the ML-ACR is nothing other than a high-capacity relay that either CONNECTS or DISCONNECTS the two large posts on it to one another. It has sensing circuitry that causes it to make that CONNECT/DISCONNECT appropriately. Even without a remote switch at the driver's console, it will still do its intended function. The remote switch only allows you to OVERIDE the automatic functions of the ML-ACR. Connecting the ML-ACR is as simple as removing the Big Boy, SS Isolator, and Lambert battery maintainer, then connecting the charging cable from your alternator AND the cable going to your chassis batteries TOGETHER on ONE post of the ML-ACR, and connecting the cable going to your house batteries on the OTHER post of the ML-ACR. Unless you choose to add the remote switch, you are DONE--Your alternator will ALWAYS be charging your CHASSIS batteries (because the alternator cables and chassis battery cables are connected to the same post), and when a charging source is detected, the ML-ACR will connect both bottom posts together, charging BOTH chassis and house batteries.

Walt, good to hear from you! I agree with Ivan. The symptom you described is certainly indicative of a clogged filter, especially since the coach has been sitting for some time. Several of us on this forum have installed a FASS fuel pump to preclude filter problems and insure the injection pump is never starved for fuel. After installation, be prepared to change the FASS primary fuel filter several times in a short period. The FASS pump has a large flow, uses a dedicated fuel return line and is constantly filtering the fuel in the tank. Over a period of time it will "polish" the fuel in the entire tank. If you install a remote-reading fuel pressure gage AFTER THE SECONDARY FILTER, you can use it as an indicator of when a filter needs changing. I changed filters several times in rapid succession after installing the FASS pump. With fresh filters, the system pressure is 15 PSI. As filters clog, that pressure drops. I change at least the FASS primary filter when pressure drops to 10 PSI at WOT. I don't change filters based on time-in-service any longer. I will always pre-fill filters, just due to habit, but the FASS system is self-priming. After installing the FASS pump, and especially for a coach that has been sitting a long time, it would be a good idea to disconnect the fuel line at the injection pump inlet and let the FASS pump "purge" the lines of any accumulated slime. The FASS system has two filters of its own, and I now use a third 2-micron final filter. That is overkill to be sure, but the FASS system easily maintains pressure through it.

If your coach has a Suburban brand furnace under the fridge, Suburban support (and the installation manual) says it is a "zero underneath clearance" appliance...that is, it can be mounted DIRECTLY to combustible material. Mine was mounted on a framework that raised it almost 4". Without lowering it to the floor, I would never have been able to install my Samsung fridge. Even lowering the furnace, (and leaving the Suburban recommended overhead clearance) I had barely 1/8" clearance overhead to slide the fridge in. Yes, you do have to bore an additional hole for the intake/exhaust of the furnace through the wall of the coach. Spooky sounding, but ridiculously easy. Cover the extra (unused) hole any way you choose. And, yes, you still have to make a support for the bottom of the fridge. I'm a machinist, so I made a bulletproof welded metal one. As Tom Cherry (and dozens of other contributors) have noted, going to a compressor-type fridge is like going from a Yugo to a Mercedes. And the "Twin-Cooling" introduced (?) by Samsung is a change that was decades overdue.

There are reasons other than wandering for one to replace shocks. I think most of them are replaced unnecessarily. The reason replacing shocks can have NO effect on reducing wandering, is that shocks only perform their damping when they are being COMPRESSED or EXTENDED. Wandering is not a wild, rapid movement. It is very slowly moving from one side of your lane to the other. At that time, the shocks are moving so little, and so slowly, that they can have no effect. Your coach cannot move left or right without changing the direction of its wheels. Wandering is a phenomenon where your H-frame, to which the wheels are attached, is "squirming" under your coach and subtly changing the direction your wheels are pointing. No "miracle shock" can have any effect whatsoever on that problem, except between the ears of the person who just spent a small fortune on them. The only significant change that installing stiffer shocks will have is to give you a rougher ride...and the wandering continues unabated. Different folks have different desires for the ride of their coach. I very much dislike the constant hammering of a coach going over minor imperfections such as tar strips, but I dislike also the "Walmart wobble" when going into a parking lot which has heavy curbing. My PURELY PERSONAL choice is to use the stiff, heavy-duty shock on the rear such as standard heavy-duty (not "comfort-ride") Bilsteins, and a soft, mushy shock on the front. My experience, with lots of experimenting, has been that stiff shocks in the rear reduce the "Walmart wobble" without transmitting a harsh ride to the driver. If you try to cure wandering with a Koni (or any other expensive shock), any improvement will only be between your ears. You can't fight physics, regardless how many folks swear they have done so. You may change other ride characteristics to your liking, but you WILL NOT cure wandering. You can only cure wandering by ensuring that your wheels stay pointed in the direction your steering wheel directs. Being advised that you need to change shocks to prevent wandering was just the knee-jerk reaction before the REAL cause of wandering was determined.

I appreciate Chris's endorsement, but I'm not an expert on what flexure is too much flex...EXCEPT I did learn from one unfortunate experience when I needed to raise the front of the coach for an extended time to do some work. I chose to raise it with two large pneumatic/hydraulic bottle jacks underneath each pad at each end of the front axle. I did it a little at a time until I got it high enough to insert a 20T jack stand under the 3" square down-tubes that are welded to the main frame rails ahead of the front axle. It APPEARED to me that supporting on the 3"sq tubes would be nearly as good as supporting under the axle pads. DEAD WRONG! After supporting on the jack stands, I removed the jacks from under the axle pads because they were in the way of what I was doing. Unfortunately, the project lasted almost two weeks. After a couple of days, I checked to see everything was OK with the frame. No problems. But after doing nothing with the coach for about ten days, I came back and the windshield was beginning to pooch out at the bottom. I reinserted the bottle jacks, raised the frame off the jack stands and the windshield (luckily) went right back into place and never leaked. What I had done was cause the frame to bow slightly in a "U" shape and that was enough to move the windshield gasket. No harm done, but lesson learned--only lift the coach at positions where it is normally supported. After that experience, I never raised the coach except under the front and rear axle pads, applying the lifting force at the same place it was when the coach was just sitting, supported by the air bags. Even though the framework that makes up the rear engine support and the tow hitch receiver seems incredibly strong, I would assume that lifting at that point (some distance behind the rear axle) would have the same effect of flexing the frame into a U-shape and possibly causing some damage to belt-line moldings and window frames.

I've made a "hitch tightener" for years that makes your hitch attachment as if it is welded to the hitch receiver on your coach. Use a piece of 1-1/2" square steel about 4" long (something that will fit INSIDE the tube of whatever adapter you are slipping into the 2" hitch receiver), mill the corners off with a heavy 45* chamfer. Drill and tap it through for a 5/8-11 bolt. Buy a "tap bolt" (5/8-11 Gr 8 bolt threaded entire length). Insert 2" square bar of your attachment into hitch receiver, with 1-1/2 bar installed, thread the "tap bolt" through the receiver and your attachment and tighten securely. Use a Nylock nut on the protruding part of the "tap bolt". Do NOT tighten the Nylock nut, just snug it against the hitch receiver (it is not tightening anything, just functions as a clevis pin). Add the previously mentioned Amazon "hitch tightener" and you end up with a tow attachment that might as well be welded to your coach--ZERO looseness, regardless the force applied to the 2" receiver, and regardless of what your attachment is. This made an unmistakable difference when I was towing a 2000 Silverado Z-71 (5200#) with a (500#) motorcycle loader and a (800#) 2007 Harley Ultra. The "home-built" Harley was 105 ci, Andrews 37 cam, Supertrapp exhaust, CNC street-ported heads, "chipped" ECM, front and rear sprockets changed, Baker 7-speed, HD clutch, centrifugal clutch enhancer, and a 160# rider. That full-dresser will still lift a wheel EVERY time on 1-2 and 2-3 shift...and embarrass the "new generation" M8 Harleys. "Old guys rule!".

If Frank says it, I listen.

Space Coast Plating "Nuff said." Great customer service. A plating shop that does almost entirely high-end antique and show car/bike plating...stuff few other shops in the USA can do. Incredible quality. I've had my mirror arms for years. Not a single flaw. No complaints. The arms on my ancient 2000 Dynasty were plated by Space Coast Plating (and welded seams--HIGHLY recommended) several years ago. Those mirror arms are still the most outstanding feature on my coach. Flawless. Regardless the supreme show-quality work, replating your mirror arms is very reasonably priced. It's not all hype. Dave Pratt can explain to you how direct nickel-chrome plating on aluminum or zinc is doomed. Space Coast Plating's COPPER-nickel-chrome is unbeatable. If your Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost's hood ornament is corroded, pitted and seems beyond repair, send it to Space Coast Plating. They will strip it, copper plate it, solder up all defects, handwork, buff, copper plate again, handwork again if necessary, copper plate again, then nickel-chrome. Your result will be flawless and beyond anything you might expect. These guys are pro's known all over the planet! Space Coast Plating ain't no budget bumper replating shop.!!! But Dave will make your mirror arms and bases the best-looking part of your coach!...for decades to come!!!...at a reasonable cost. And if you're lucky, you might get to talk to Sandy Pratt, Dave's (much) better half, who can talk tech to you. First time I met Sandy, I was expecting to meet an executive lady in a fancy office. Instead, I met her on the shop floor, in a tee-shirt, artfully teaching a trainee how to buff a classic Buick bumper that had been inadequately prepared by one of her staff. Bumper looked great to me, but Sandy pointed out some minor imperfections and said they would never send out a part with a flaw...so they re-did the entire process to satisfy the customer--no additional cost. Space Coast Plating...A-1, top-of-the-heap, show-quality platers, doing excellent work at reasonable prices.