Woody O Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 I have a 2006 Dynasty Diamond IV. I need to find the "power shedding device" and the relays associated with it. It would help if you could tell me where it is located on your particular model as it could be in the same place on mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Nodine Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, Woody O said: I have a 2006 Dynasty Diamond IV. I need to find the "power shedding device" and the relays associated with it. It would help if you could tell me where it is located on your particular model as it could be in the same place on mine. Woody, did you pull the cover for the main distribution panel. On our coach it is behind that panel. I replied to you on the other thread and posted a document with photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hepfer Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 In our 2008 Diplomat it is behind the cover on the main distribution panel located in the bedroom closet. I just had to replace ours after our last camping trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody O Posted November 29, 2020 Author Share Posted November 29, 2020 Bob, yes, I pulled the wooden panel around the distribution panels as well and didn't see it. The wiring drawings said it is located behind panel as you said, as well as next to washer/dryer recept., behind TV, or under Bedroom wardrobe. Its not behind breaker box, nor TV, nor under bedroom wardrobe, so I 'm assuming it is next to washer and dryer receptacle. I'm not ready to pull the washer and dryer out yet. Thanks for your and others help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred W Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 On my 09 Dynasty the device shedding power to bedroom AC to use washing machine is in the multiplex panel in bedroom down near the floor. fred w, 09 Dynasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k7jv Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I don't know how your cabinetry is laid out, but in our '06 Dynasty Countess III, I can at least see it in two ways. There is a little "hatch" in the floor of the cupboard above it. If I empty out the two shelves and remove the one just above the washer/dryer, I can lean in and look down and access everything behind the unit, at least with a flashlight to see what is going on. A larger choice is a "door" that they put on the side wall of the adjacent closet unit. Pull that cover and you have fairly good access. The washer/dryer does NOT have to come out to get to the load control device that you are looking for. Also, when you say "power shedding" I am assuming (with all the risks that go with the word "assume") you are talking about the device that routes power to either the #3 heat pump OR to the washer/dryer and that we are on the right track for trying to help you. There are two relays in one of the two breaker panels, but they are NOT power shedding or load management devices. One is the 12V operated relay to route the 120VAC to the engine block heater duplex outlet box in the engine compartment, and the other is for the electric water heater, if the coach has an electric or dual source powered unit on board. The only two true "load management" systems in our '06 Dynasty are unrelated. One is the transfer relay you are looking for that selects either the #3 heat pump or the washer/dryer, and the other is the set-point on the Magnum for shore power availability where you can limit the AC draw for battery charging, when the electric source may be a limiting problem for you, such as when plugging into a 120V outlet at your home to keep the batteries up and the refrigerator cold. Our coach does NOT have any other true load management system(s) in place, and none were made known to us when we were specifying our coach options for manufacture. I truly believe that, since my career was in the power supply industry, I would have been keenly aware of the importance of such options and would not have left it out on our coach. To me, a true load management system would "know" whether 50 amp or 30 amp power was available and would either prevent loads from coming on line that would overload the source or would turn loads off on a pre-established priority when other loads come on to keep from overloading the source. Our coach absolutely does NOT have anything built into it to accomplish that task. I wish it did!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody O Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 K7jv, my problem is that the washer and dryer will run when on generator power but will not run on shorepower. Do you an have any ideas what my problem is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k7jv Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Wow, Woody, that's crazy! According to Monaco's 120 volt inter-connection diagram, and according to my own beliefs, the shore umbilical and the main leads from the generator both go directly to the transfer switch, and from their to the shore breaker panel. It gets more complicated after that, but that shore breaker panel is where your A/C and your Washer/Dryer are fed so the further complications aren't a factor. So there is virtually no reason why the washer/dryer shouldn't work on shore power UNLESS the contact that ties Leg H2 (Leg #2 or Leg B) thru from the shore cable terminal on the contactor to the corresponding load-side terminal is in trouble. If that were the case, if you still have your Aladdin in service, it should tell you that when you are connected to the shore power and one leg isn't working you have a open leg. Woody, I don't know where else to look, right off hand. You could pull the cover off of the transfer switch and test for voltages on all nine terminals of the contactor. If you open that up, first BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL AS LETHAL VOLTAGES ARE PRESENT AND EXPOSED!! If you aren't comfortable working with that, please get someone qualified to help you. If you do this with shore power connected and your generator running, you should be able to measure 120 VAC (plus or minus 6 volts, ideally) from L1 to ground and L2 to ground on all three sets of terminals. You should also be able to measure 240 VAC from L1 to L2 on all three sets of terminals. Now, turn off your generator and test again. Of course the voltages will be gone from the three terminals associated with the generator, but you should get the same readings as before on the shore connections and the load connections. If you do not, the transfer switch contactor is in trouble. If you do get the same readings, I'm going to throw up a white flag. Lastly, all of the above assumes that neither the washer/dryer NOR the rear A/C will operate on shore power. If the A/C will but the washer/dryer will not, and yet both can operate while on generator power, all bets are off, and I'm stumped and out comes the white flag, again. Schematic - 110V and 12V Inter-connection Diagram.pdf Schematic - 110V Breaker Panel Connections Diagram.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 6 hours ago, k7jv said: Our coach does NOT have any other true load management system(s) in place, and none were made known to us when we were specifying our coach options for manufacture. I truly believe that, since my career was in the power supply industry, I would have been keenly aware of the importance of such options and would not have left it out on our coach. To me, a true load management system would "know" whether 50 amp or 30 amp power was available and would either prevent loads from coming on line that would overload the source or would turn loads off on a pre-established priority when other loads come on to keep from overloading the source. Our coach absolutely does NOT have anything built into it to accomplish that task. I wish it did!! That's odd Jim, because that's exactly what my 08' Scepter has, and I'm pretty sure Windsorbill's 06' Windsor has the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k7jv Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 That is interesting. We learned by experience, fairly quickly, that when we were on 30 amp service we needed to tweak the setting on the Magnum to 30 amp, which helps control that demand. And we are careful to only allow one heat pump to have the thermostat enabled and we turn off the 120 VAC on the AquaHot. We get along well with that, but if we don't do the above, I find myself out resetting the pedestal circuit breaker. Dang! Our manual even states, "To avoid shore power overload when hooked to 30 Amp service, determine appliance current load prior to turning on appliances or using interior outlets." Later, it talks about the "Automatic Appliance Selector" which is to prevent shore power overload, but says it is applicable to the rear A/C and the washer/dryer, which was covered in the earlier posts. Note that in reality, those two devices share a common circuit breaker in the panel, so the truly high priority purpose of that particular load "management" device is to keep from overloading the in-coach circuit breaker more than the shore power breaker. I just went thru the '06 Dynasty Owners Manual searching on the word "Load", and there are dozens of places where it warns against overloading the shore power when less than a 50 amp breaker is used. So that is confirming that beyond the settings on the Magnum battery charging system and the A/C and Washer/Dryer device, and an electric cooktop device when it is installed, is the grand sum total of the load management technology in the '06 Dynasty. Interesting, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 3 hours ago, 96 EVO said: That's odd Jim, because that's exactly what my 08' Scepter has, and I'm pretty sure Windsorbill's 06' Windsor has the same. The load management that we have was only put on Windsor, Camelot, and down coaches, I guess Scepter too not sure where it fits. Dynasty and above didn't get the system, I don't know why it seems odd to me . One member on here installed a management system on his Dynasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Scepter is the Holiday Rambler sister to the Camelot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k7jv Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Woody, what did you learn, today? Wow. I thought about that possibility, but it would be a very involved process. To do it with conventional devices would require intercepting the 120 VAC power supply to each controlled device and adding a communication path to talk to it, along with developing a control device to make the smart decisions. Another option would be to do it with a LAN, preferable a Wifi LAN and enabled devices. But either way, coming up with a good load management system like I would envision would be quite the process. If I were a couple of decades younger and I was likely to continue RVing in our current coach, it could be worth pursuing. But at this point it will have to go on my "I sure wish I'd done that" list. Now, I look forward to finding out what Woody found out if he was able to do any testing of his transfer switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amphi_sc Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 16 hours ago, Woody O said: K7jv, my problem is that the washer and dryer will run when on generator power but will not run on shorepower. Do you an have any ideas what my problem is? Dumb question. Does your washer/dryer require 240V? And is your shore power at the moment 30A 120 via a dog bone? Or perhaps a "pseudo" pedestal 50A circuit where both legs are the same phase? As you say it works on you Generator and I think you said your transfer switch was transferring power to both legs on shore power, my guess is the shore power is wrong. My washer is 120V but my dryer is 240V and I came across one Encore park in NY where the 50A circuit was wired wrong at the pedestal and both legs were the same split phase and thus no dryer. BTW, I had to go thru to the third park maintenance guy to finally convince them it was incorrectly wired and not a broken dryer. My apologies if this aspect has already been beaten to death. By the way, my "load shedding device" for the third (rear) A/C and washer is on the wall behind the washer, but when the relay in mine failed I had power to washer but not the A/C. On mine, the washer was always hot and when it detected current > couple amps it would open the A/C relay. I think what killed mine was we didn't always turn off the bedroom A/C when doing laundry and sometimes when the washer was idle between spin/agitate/dump/etc, the A/C would kick on for 30 seconds until the washer's current draw came back up, the probably arcing the relay. But the relay is not involved in the washer side of the circuit. I understand your symptoms are totally different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody O Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 The washer is 120v and the dryer is 240v. And yes, I am running thru a dog bone from 50a to 30a back to 50a. The Aladen is showing 118v on generator and 122v on shore power. How do you tell if the 50a shore power is wired wrong? I think my "load shedding device" is behind the washer also. Whats involved in pulling the washer out to check the load shedding device? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody O Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 K7jv, THANK YOU! THANK YOU!! IT'S WORKING!!!! I removed the dog bone and 30amp. extension cord and plugged straight into the 50 amp. recept. Everything works, including the dryer. So, my question is.......Did the electrician wire my 50 amp receptable off of one leg instead of two legs? OR was it the 30 amp. dog bone and 30 amp. extension cord that caused the problem? Again THANK YOU for your input. Woody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) Pretty sure a 30A extension doesn't contain enough wires to carry 240V. Al, good call on asking about the voltage of the dryer! I hadn't even considered that. Edited December 1, 2020 by 96 EVO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Pretty sure a 30A extension doesn't contain enough wires to carry 240V. Yeah, don't put 240v into 30 amp extension, as Ben says not enough wires. I'm pretty sure my Splindide ( sp ) is 120v only. I believe some newer more up scale coaches were fitted with 240v driers but I don't know what years. My Onan 7500 puts out only 120v so unless the OP has a larger gen he probably doesn't have a 240v drier either. Edited December 1, 2020 by Ray Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody O Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 Guys, according to Alladen, I had 122on leg1 and 122 on leg 2 which is more than I had on the genny, which was 118 on leg 1 and 118 on leg 2, so yes, it should run it. I just can't run everything on 30amp. In fact I can't run everything on 50 amp. That was the reason for the appliance shedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) Yeah, the way you had your shore power wired with a 30A extension, you'll get 120V to each leg feeding your breaker panel, but you won't get 240V 😉! Edited December 1, 2020 by 96 EVO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k7jv Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Woody, when we talk about 110 V or 120 V, we are talking nominal values, not absolute values. In our area, our utility is supposed to deliver 120 VAC, plus or minus 5% which means anything between 114 V and 126 V is within the "required" range. That 120 volt specification as at the service entrance to the facility. We sometimes see 110 volts or 115 volts on device nameplates, and those voltages relate to the design supply value at the receptacle where the device is plugged in. That allows for about 5 volts of drop thru the service entrance and the branch circuit conductors to the outlet. So really, anything between 114 and 126 volts AC is golden. It is not uncommon to see voltages down to 110 and below in RV parks, as many have old and now overloaded conductors causing significant voltage drop in their system. Also, it is very common to have a few volts of difference between line 1 and line 2. Don't be concerned of those numbers are two or three volts different from one another. Enough on that. Our shore cables and our on-board generators are designed to provide 240 VAC, protected by a two-pole 50 amp (or 40 amp which is common on our generators) breaker to our coaches. They use four conductors to accomplish that. One can be called Line 1, and it delivers 120 VAC (measured from that line to the neutral) to one half of your AC breaker panel to serve those loads. It will be either black or red. A second can be called Line 2, and it delivers 120 VAC (also measured from that line to the neutral) to the other half of your AC breaker panel to serve those loads. It will be either red or black. A third is the neutral. It is actually tied to "ground" at the feed-point of your system. The fourth is the ground for your system. Under normal conditions, you should be able to measure 120 volts AC from either L1 or L2 to either the neutral or the ground. The plug and the receptacle will have three parallel flat connectors. The right and left one are the two "hot" legs, L1 and L2. The offset middle one is the neutral. The round one is the ground. When you look at a 30 amp plug or receptacle, you will see only three terminals. One of the flat terminals is L1, the "hot" lead. The other flat terminal is the neutral. The round one is, again, the ground. So you only have one 120 volt source for your coach. In the 50 to 30 adapters that we use, the "female" plug that you connect to your coach cable ties the one hot lead from the 30 amp side to both of the "hot" lugs on your coach cable. So you wind up with the same 120 volt leg applied to both sides of your breaker panel. All of your 120 volt loads are happy. But anything that uses 240 volts will see absolutely zero volts, as those two lines are connected together in your pigtail adapter. Finally, note that you have a lot more power available to your coach with a 50 amp source as you have two 120 volt legs with 50 amps of capability on each. For resistive loads, you can multiply those two numbers and get the watts available. Fifty amps times 120 volts equals 6,000 watts, or 6 kW. But you have two hot lines, so you can actually receive 12 kW on your 50 amp supply. On a 30 amp source, you have one 120 volt leg with 30 amps of capability. That calculates to 3.6 kW. So you can actually power more than three times as much load on a 50 amp supply than you can on a 30 amp supply. An interesting reality. I hope I didn't over load anyone with this, but thought it might answer some remaining questions. And I'm very glad that you are back in business. Yay! Cheers to all. (I apologize in advance for any typos in this reply, as I'm sure there are several. My fingers don't seem to pay very good attention to my mind, any more.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k7jv Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Oh, and yes, I am hopeful you have a cupboard next to your washer/dryer, and hopefully the cupboard is on the right, as you view it. There, we have about a 10" x 24" "door" or cover that is easily removed to access the back of the unit. In any case, you should be able to see the electrical box that has the device inside of it. You can't see the device, as I recall, but if you pull the cover off of the box, it is there. At least that's how I remember it on our coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Jim, did your Dynasty come with a 240V cloths dryer as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k7jv Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 No, I wish it did. We had the choice, but our previous coach had the Spendide unit in it, and we really did like it. We opted for the storage above the washer/dryer rather than the pair. We've spent over 40% of the nights since we took delivery of our coach in November 2005 in our coach, including 15 winters in Arizona. And we've never once used a laundromat. Every single load of laundry has been done in that dual unit. For us, we made a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 I have the stacked pair, but both units are 120V. Probably just as well since I end up in 30A sites more often than I'd like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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