Fuel Injector Priming Pump and Water Separator Assembly

[Rob M cKeown]

On my 2003 Signature with the 525 ISX The Fuel Injector Priming Pump has failed. There is a Water Separator that is integral to the Unit with a small Parker Hanifan actuator box. Both the Priming Pump and the Water Separator have a small rubber covered button to operate the priming pump and another to operate the water separator. They both have an indicator light that is supposed to come on when either is actuated. There is a Fuel Filter and a Glass Bowl on the unit. I have looked all over and cannot see any part numbers anywhere. Does anyone out there have any info on this unit. I tried Cummins Parts and they do not list it for my engine so it was probably an OEM addition by Monaco. Any help would be appreciated. 

mswmckeown

2003 Monaco Signature

[Just Jim]

Rob,

I've got something similar on mine although it is much older.  I think I have the info in my owners manual box.  I'll see what I can find, but you might look there in your box...assuming you have it... for info on it.

 

Jim

[Just Jim]

I found it quicker than I thought I would.  Was originally a Winn Fuel System but was bought by Racor.  I've got a phone number for them but it may be an old number.  800-344-3286

[CRY1942]

Change the old Winn Filter to a new Racor 700 Series.

Pretty much Plug and Play installation.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by CRY1942

[Rob M cKeown]

Can you send me the Model number of what you installed as I can't read it from yhe photo., the Parker HanifIn box I have has 2 rubber covered push buttons and 2 lights, one for prime and the other for water drain. Does your new installation do the same?

mswmckeown@gmail.com   

[John Haggard]

Try

790R30

 

I updated mine 10 years ago

I could not find the plastic container with screen.

[Rob M cKeown]

Thanks for your help

[rpasetto]

Does yours look like this one?

With this switch?

The pump on mine is intermittent.   I do not recall the old replacement but the new Racor recommended unit is the 790R30.

A number of monacoers here have recommended I make the change and it has been on my "to-do" project list for a while.  See this thread for more info: 

I am hoping to be able to re-use the quick-connect fuel fittings shown in picture above... if I can take them off without breaking them.  🙂

Paul Whittle did the upgrade and installed shut off valves which are a good idea.  I will also do that after I figure out what fittings needed with the hoses on mine, which seem to be different.

Edited April 9, 2021 by rpasetto

[Rob M cKeown]

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions. I now have a plan to:

1. Check out the existing unit thoroughly especially connections

2. If unsuccessful replace the unit with the Racor 790R30

3. Install isolation valves on the gzin and gzout

Again, thanks everyone for your help and suggestions, much appreciated. Owning one of these beasts is a never ending learning curve and helps keep the grey matter active.

[rpasetto]

49 minutes ago, Rob M cKeown said:

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions. I now have a plan to:

1. Check out the existing unit thoroughly especially connections

2. If unsuccessful replace the unit with the Racor 790R30

3. Install isolation valves on the gzin and gzout

Again, thanks everyone for your help and suggestions, much appreciated. Owning one of these beasts is a never ending learning curve and helps keep the grey matter active.

After dealing with an intermittent pump for too long it looks like the best path is to replace the old, obsolete 12962/48027 system.  Fiddling with the control switch and wiring to get the pump to run has been a recurring problem.  Replacing the element is also more of a hassle because of the connections for 'Drain water" feature which was never used anyway.   I probably should have replaced that old unit sooner, but 'stuff happens'.

If you decide to go ahead and replace yours, we both may be doing this project at about the same time.  My concern is with the the fuel hose and quick connect fittings on mine.  They are somehow molded into a plastic hose...  most others seem to have a black rubber hose with what appear to be factory crimped fittings.  

Do you have the rubber hose connections like Charles' picture?... or the plastic?  I am hoping someone else here has experience with the same type of fuel hose and connections as mine.  I am also seeking advice on this.

[CRY1942]

Gents

Attached is Racor 700 Series information.

The new Racor only has one button to Prime, hold down until fuel is present out of Schrader Valve.

I used the 790R30 model.

Has operated three years with no problems.

 

Racor__700-Series-Filter.pdf

[John Haggard]

7 hours ago, rpasetto said:

After dealing with an intermittent pump for too long it looks like the best path is to replace the old, obsolete 12962/48027 system.  Fiddling with the control switch and wiring to get the pump to run has been a recurring problem.  Replacing the element is also more of a hassle because of the connections for 'Drain water" feature which was never used anyway.   I probably should have replaced that old unit sooner, but 'stuff happens'.

If you decide to go ahead and replace yours, we both may be doing this project at about the same time.  My concern is with the the fuel hose and quick connect fittings on mine.  They are somehow molded into a plastic hose...  most others seem to have a black rubber hose with what appear to be factory crimped fittings.  

Do you have the rubber hose connections like Charles' picture?... or the plastic?  I am hoping someone else here has experience with the same type of fuel hose and connections as mine.  I am also seeking advice on this.

Mine was plug and play 

8 some years ago.

Works flawlessly 

After you get yours at your coach.

You will soon know what fittings ? If Any you may need.

I needed none.

[rpasetto]

13 minutes ago, John Haggard said:

Mine was plug and play 

8 some years ago.

Works flawlessly 

After you get yours at your coach.

You will soon know what fittings ? If Any you may need.

I needed none.

The problem is my fittings are sort of molded on to the yellow plastic hose.  If I break them I would need to get the re-usable (JIC?) type and cut off the old ones.  There's a black plastic connector with the red clip...  I am guessing that somehow the clip pulls away to enable the fitting to come apart allowing me to unscrew the hex part of the fitting.  I have never before seen such a setup.... hoping someone here knows.

[John Haggard]

11 minutes ago, rpasetto said:

The problem is my fittings are sort of molded on to the yellow plastic hose.  If I break them I would need to get the re-usable (JIC?) type and cut off the old ones.  There's a black plastic connector with the red clip...  I am guessing that somehow the clip pulls away to enable the fitting to come apart allowing me to unscrew the hex part of the fitting.  I have never before seen such a setup.... hoping someone here knows.

Personally, I would remove the unit you have.

Then get the fittings you may need.

Your talking a few hundred $$$ pump, filter system.

A few $$$s for fittings won't hurt you.

Your fretting over a Windys Dinner. 

[rpasetto]

1 hour ago, John Haggard said:

Personally, I would remove the unit you have.

Then get the fittings you may need.

Your talking a few hundred $$$ pump, filter system.

A few $$$s for fittings won't hurt you.

Your fretting over a Windys Dinner. 

I already ordered the 790R30 unit, which is the filter head with integral pump.  My question is: what fittings do I need?  I already know the threads for input and output ports are 7/8"-14 UNF as per the Racor spec on the 790R30.  My question is about the hose side; these hoses appear to have been molded onto the old fittings.  Like I said I have never seen this type of fuel hose.  Can you tell me what type of fitting to use on it?

[Romeo84]

On 4/8/2021 at 5:48 PM, CRY1942 said:

Change the old Winn Filter to a new Racor 700 Series.

Pretty much Plug and Play installation.

 

 

Just curious what's the benefit to changing out the old winn system. 2000 Monaco sig. 500ism  is it recommended if so why?

[Rob M cKeown]

I ordered the Racor 790R30 today and will install it as soon as I get it next week. Doesn't look too complicated but will install so the filter is easier to change for sure.

[John Haggard]

3 hours ago, Rob M cKeown said:

I ordered the Racor 790R30 today and will install it as soon as I get it next week. Doesn't look too complicated but will install so the filter is easier to change for sure.

Your smart,,  I moved my head unit up 2 inches for easier water separator and filter changes. 

Good luck.

Keep track of your Hot wire from the ignition.

On my 99 it was a Purple wire.

5 hours ago, rpasetto said:

I already ordered the 790R30 unit, which is the filter head with integral pump.  My question is: what fittings do I need?  I already know the threads for input and output ports are 7/8"-14 UNF as per the Racor spec on the 790R30.  My question is about the hose side; these hoses appear to have been molded onto the old fittings.  Like I said I have never seen this type of fuel hose.  Can you tell me what type of fitting to use on it?

Your old fitting looks like a quick disconnect I have seen. But your picture only shows one side 

Try to release the fitting via the red collar 

Then remove the black nut  fitting from your original pump .

See where you are at with your original fittings and new pump.

Go from there.

A trip to a NAPA or big rig shop parts store with your new pump may be necessary 🤔

If you can't plug and play. 

They are very simple common conectors .

[rpasetto]

On 4/10/2021 at 1:43 AM, John Haggard said:

...

Your old fitting looks like a quick disconnect I have seen. But your picture only shows one side 

Try to release the fitting via the red collar 

Then remove the black nut  fitting from your original pump .

See where you are at with your original fittings and new pump.

Go from there.

A trip to a NAPA or big rig shop parts store with your new pump may be necessary 🤔

If you can't plug and play. 

They are very simple common conectors .

Connectors are the same on both sides of the old pump as shown in the earlier picture.  I know the threads for input and output ports are 7/8"-14 UNF as per the Racor spec on the 790R30.    However the hoses are different than any shown in this thread or in the earlier thread to which I provided a reference.  If I have to cut off the old fittings, which I would need to do if the quick connects don't release properly, what fittings fit those hoses?  I prefer to have parts on hand or readily available before I start a project.

----------------------------------------- Update  ---------------------------------------------------------

My 790R30 arrived and I had no trouble getting fittings to fit the ports of the filter (ORB # 10, 7/8x14 UNF) and the shutoff valves down to a 1/2" JIC male fitting.  But there should be a connector to that 1/2"ID yellow plastic (nylon?) hose. 

How's best method to connect to that darn yellow hose? (see below)  The hose inside measures 1/2" but it's tough to push on either regular 1/2 barb or 'push-fit' barb into that opening by hand.  For now, I easily inserted the next lower size, 3/8", and they are leak tight using clamps.  Engine starts and runs fine, but I am concerned that the 3/8" barb will be a restriction in the 1/2"ID fuel hose at heavy engine load.  I don't want to risk fuel starvation. 

So far I haven't found where I could get a tool to insert 1/2" barbs into this hose.  Recommendations? Also haven't found a truck place where I could get a "field attachable' fitting.   I see many field attachable (reusable) fittings online, looking like the one below, but they all seem to be for a specific hose type.  Tomorrow, another try, another trip to a few hydraulic hose places.  If anyone has found the right connection method for this 1/2"ID, 5/8"OD yellow plastic hose let me know.

 

  

Edited May 24, 2021 by rpasetto
Update

[rpasetto]

Finally completed the install of my 790R30.  Thanks to Paul Whittle for suggesting the shutoff valves. 

I was still uncomfortable with the idea of using the 3/8 fittings with 1/2ID hose so they were replaced with 1/2" barb to 1/2" JIC.  The trick was to get the barb fitting into this plastic-nylon-?? fuel hose.  Could the 3/8" be too much of a restriction?  Would it wait to remind me when I climb the first big hill?  What the heck, it should be possible to press those fittings into that ?? hose.

 

               

It was tough, a project in itself figuring out how to get the 1/2" barb into this 1'2" ID hose.  I used the clamp as a 'backup"' just in case... figured it couldn't hurt.  I still don't know what the hose is made of but after some research and delays on other things I came up with a solution... 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by rpasetto

[rpasetto]

So anyway if anyone has this type of fuel hose, there's a way.  I spent some time looking for re-usable JIC fittings and learned there are fittings for all sorts of hose types rubber and silicone wire impregnated and otherwise... not for this hose.  I carried my sample around... no luck.  Thinking about the original fittings somehow got pressed into that fuel hose ... there had to be a way.  So I started a search for tools to do it; learned a lot.  There are plenty of such tools, the least costly one I found was a $300 one with variations and add-on adapters to handle various size hose and fitting combinations but I figured without part numbers and still learning all the designations of hose and fittings it would take me some few hundred north of that and a lot of time anyway.  Right about then I realized how nice it would be to have a machine shop and know how to use it... no chance there.  So I went to the woodshop.

The device below is made of wood, bolts, threaded rod and nuts, all stuff found at Lowes and Home Depot.  It clamps on the the hose and pushes it on to the fitting.  Test setup shown below.

The green arrows indicate nuts used to clamp down on the hose.  The yellow hose is a cutoff used for testing the "press".  In actual use, the hose is wrapped with double layer of electrical tape for protection before going inside the clamp. (had that piece since the old hose needed to be shortened a bit).  The red arrows indicate the locked nuts used to "wrench" down the hose over the barb once it's clamped in place.  I actually used a drill to do some of the bolt turning once the hose was started on the barb.  The brass fitting (orange arrow) is just a test part, not the 1/2 barb to JIC one.  Thanks to the DW for helping; this was a two person job; much trickier than it looks, working in the tight quarters of the engine compartment.

So if any of you all  have this kind of hose and run into a situation where you need to press fittings on, give a holler; maybe I can help.

[CRY1942]

Excellent write up !

Thanks for sharing.