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'08 Camelot TRAVEL Inflation problem


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We have air-only inflation on '08 Camelot 40PDQ, with the Valid system.
I started to take the coach out to refuel the other day, and noticed that it went to full-inflate only on the left side when the TRAVEL button is pushed. Right side inflated normally.  If I dump all air, it stays down. If I manually level it or put it in AUTO, it behaves normally. If I air-down the left side and then put it back in TRAVEL, it will slowly start going to full again.  I've gotten myself totally confused over the valves and I got to wondering which side/valve is really bad, the one that lifts about 4-5" in TRAVEL or the one that stays lower? I never really paid attention as to how high the coach lifts in TRAVEL mode, so I don't know which side to believe is correct.
 
Simplest and least expensive (relative terms indeed!) solution was to replace the valve(s).  After a lot of searching and calling, I finally found the correct valves. The originals were Hadley, which are now Ridewell K861003 (also called 6330BFAB15), if anyone else needs that particular number. Exact same configuration, etc. I suppose other brands/models probably work the same, but I was hoping to do a one-for-one swap and be able to use the same 'rod' lengths without having to fiddle with adjusting ride heights.

Anyways, the new valves didn't solve the problem. Like I said, the left goes to TRAVEL height while the right stays down. I can switch to MANUAL and get both to raise or lower, and leveling also works correctly when in AUTO.  I don't know much about them or how to troubleshoot them, but do I start looking at the 6-pak or the controller stuff now? Is the 6-pak made by Valid as well?
 
Any and all help is welcome... I'm sidelined in the FL Keys and it's the middle of hurricane season!
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Ron, do you have the manual and if so is there any troubleshooting pages that may step you through to find the problem?

I don't know much about the Valid System and mine is HWH which I am quite familiar with now.

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Hi Richard!    We workamped several years in the FL Keys and loved it (in fact, moved here awhile back). Hope all is well with y'all.

I'm not finding a lot of troubleshooting Valid details, other than calling up the Valid fault modes (which don't show any faults), so I'm kinda driving blind right now. 

In fact, I'm starting to feel like I'm chasing my tail.  I just pulled off the 6-pak and it tested good on the bench. All 6 solenoids are working and air is flowing as a solenoid is activated.

 

Controller? ugh!

 

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I don't have Valid either but there are similarities. Looks like you ride hight valve on the low side does not get air from the Sixpack, right? You could check if the solenoid gets power when it should, in travel mode.

SmartSelect_20210729-145647_Drive.jpg

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Quote

"Any and all help is welcome... I'm sidelined in the FL Keys and it's the middle of hurricane season!"

 

I don't have Valid either but they appear very similar.  Someone correct me if i'm all wrong here.   One of those travel solenoids is either bad or not getting 12v when it should.   Ron has tested the solenoids so the controller 12v is not getting through   On my HWH I think that could be a fuse inside the controller case,  might even be a wire cut, shorted or unplugged.   This next part I'm theorizing,  in a bind 12v could be fed to that solenoid and it should power up just like the other side.  You would need to be able to remove the 12v when you stop though.   Better yet,   might be to wire both travel solenoids together temporarily.

How about it,  will it work.

 

Edited by Ray Davis
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Hi Ron,

 

You can give Valid (they are in Canada) a call and ask for Lucus .  I didn’t have the exact issue with mine, but similar on my passenger front.  Lucus  was exceptionally helpful.  He can help diagnose the issue and supply any need parts.

 

I replaced all 6 solenoids in the front 6 pack and one valve rod and seal as the valve on the passenger raise valve was leaking.  This may be the problem with your ride height valve.

 

Best,

 

Gary

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks to all for sticking with me so far.  Now I need more help, actually a lot of help.  I'll give Valid a call when they open, but I'd like to understand things better before I talk to them.

I tested the 6-pak on the bench, and then reinstalled it on the coach and tested it again (using the metal washer trick on each solenoid).  It checks out just fine.  When I ran the coach again, the driver side will lift in TRAVEL, but it seems like I'm getting almost no air in the right bag at all.  I hear no leaks anywhere and the right side  solenoid does grab the washer.  I tried to follow the airline from the right bag, but it almost immediately disappeared up into the spaghetti-nest of lines and wires along the chassis.  Where does it go?

None of the diagrams (Valid or the previous Power Gear info) I've found tell me how air gets to the bag, or where it comes from.  It's as if there's a blockage before the bag but I have no idea what's where.  How does the control-panel by the driver tell a bag to lift/lower?

Edited by RustyTools
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Ron, could it be that the ride height solenoid is being energized but the solenoid piston is stuck inside the valve not allowing any air from leaving the six-pack block to raise the air bags?

Have you check the air ports going to the ride height valves & air bags to make sure that air is able to leave the block when the travel solenoids are energized?

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Right, there needs to be a clear path from the Ride hight port to the air bag port when the Ride hight solenoid is energized. Air bags get air straight from the Bag port on short side of the block.

Screenshot_20210730-114315_Gallery.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Thanks, Ivan.  That photo of the block and ports helped illuminate the ol' light-bulb, albeit quite dimly.  It was also suggested I swap travel lines to see if the issue follows, and now I get where we're going.

I think I went to bed around 1 this morning, still studying and following how the system works. Dunno why this seems so complicated to me, electronics was my forte and this shouldn't be that different confused.gifconfused.gif. A real drawing or schematic would help immensely, I'm sure, as what I found are 'similar-to' versions (like Power Gear, HWH, etc), but not exactly what I have.

For instance, all of the info/photos I've come across show the ride height port and the pressure port on the bottom (with the open exhaust port) and the 2 air-bag ports coming out the side like mine, but my block also has another air-line on the top. Can't find what it does. Nothing stamped anywhere and no info shown online.  Anyone?

I'm also going to verify that the solenoid(s) are really opening, and not just clicking.


I'll keep posting progress (or lack thereof).

Edited by RustyTools
typos, what else?
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You will have 2 ride hight ports for the rear axle. One on each opposing long side of the block, from each of the 2 control valves. Does that explain the single port on that side?

Screenshot_20210731-133123-987.png

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Posted (edited)

Are you saying the ride-height port (in the photo above) feeds one ride-height side, and the other ride-height port (the one next to the PRESSURE port on the flip side) feeds the other ride-height side? 

If so, what's throwing me is that the photo on page 13 of Richard's manual references only ONE ride height port!  And then, shouldn't I be able to swap those 1/4" airlines at the block and see if the problem follows?

While we're at it, the two 3/8" airlines coming off the side of the block are the lines that go direct to the airbags themselves, right?

Edited by RustyTools
typo
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Ron, the manual says "port(s) meaning there could be two especially for the rear which always has two ride height valves. Whereas the front normally only has one ride height valve.

My Windsor has two in the rear and one in the front. Therefore my 6-Pack HWH valves are setup the same way.

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30 minutes ago, RustyTools said:

Are you saying the ride-height port (in the photo above) feeds one ride-height side, and the other ride-height port (the one next to the PRESSURE port on the flip side) feeds the other ride-height side? 

If so, what's throwing me is that the photo on page 13 of Richard's manual references only ONE ride height port!  And then, shouldn't I be able to swap those 1/4" airlines at the block and see if the problem follows?

While we're at it, the two 3/8" airlines coming off the side of the block are the lines that go direct to the airbags themselves, right?

Yes you got it. You can swap the left-right lines for a test. You may also want to swap the corresponding connectors for troubleshooting. It can get confusing.

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Posted (edited)

"Ah-ha!  I See!"  Said the blind carpenter, as he picked up his hammer and saw!

I took the block off again and re-reconfirmed that all ports are clear and solenoids open-and-close.  Onward thru the fog

 

Edited by RustyTools
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  • 2 weeks later...

(Probably would have been better-served if I'd put it the Compressed-Air section, but you're reading it here so I guess it's ok)

Anyways, I replaced both ride-height valves, removed/verified the 6-pak block, and cleaned up everything.  Now, I do have control over both sides at the rear, YAY!  However, I evidently messed up the 'indexing' on the valve levers, as the valves now allow and/or exhaust air at wrong times in their cycle.

So, does anyone have photos of where on the valve shafts the levers should be located in their cycle?  I'm sure i could eventually get it right, but it'd take forever.

 

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Closing the loop... passenger ride height valve was bad. I did a forensic analysis (ie, tore it apart), but couldn't determine the root cause.  In addition, I found a wire going to the 6-pak was intermittent right at its connector, causing me to occasionally have a FAULT light illuminate, and making it harder to troubleshoot the initial problem.

Thanks for the help, all.

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