BIRD Problem

[dleeadkins]

I have a 2002 Windsor PKDD. After a close look at this circuit, I see I have no input from the chassis batteries. It was wired this way from the factory. All other connections are there. Seems the practical intent is to not combine the chassis and coach batteries while on shore power/converter charging. I jumped the chassis batteries 12 volts to the “chassis” post on the B.I.R.D. and it did indeed combine the batteries as designed. Any ideas? thanks

[jacwjames]

Mine was set up the same way.  But I also had a Lambert 415 battery maintainer that was suppose to keep the chassis battery maintained if plugged in.

I started to question my charging system earlier this year, I kept hearing the Lambert maintainer clicking, which I had never heard before.  Checked the chassis batter voltage an it was ~12.4 volts.   Did some checking/diagnosis and from I could tell the Lambert was working but for some reason the internal relay was not staying on very long. 

So I bite the bullet and pulled all the old component (BIRD, Isolation Solenoid, and Lambert) and installed a Bluesea ML-ACR.  Now whenever there is a charging source it combines the house and chassis batteries automatically.  It does have a switch that you can override this and either leave it on all the time or disconnect it, this will allow you to use the Bluesea to boost the batteries for starting.  I had to run a wire back to front dash to install the switch.

 

[Tom Wallis]

My Monarch was made the same way. My chassis battery did not charge on shore or generator power. I have a few accessories up front that are wired to the chassis battery and will drain it over time. There is a continuous duty solenoid that ties the two battery systems together while driving or when the dash switch is compressed.

I found this little board on Amazon for $13 and wired it in. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DS33JVJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It senses the voltage on the coach batteries. When they reach a determined voltage (it's adjustable and I set mine for 13.2v) it turns on the solenoid and both sets of batteries charge. When the voltage falls below a certain number (I set this one for 13v) it releases the solenoid and the batteries are separated. It works whether on shore power or generator power.

One glitch that I ran into was easily solved with a diode. After driving, when the engine was turned off the my new setup was back feeding the solenoid wire from the ignition causing part of my ignition to stay on until the voltage dropped below 13v which takes a few minute. I just installed a diode between the solenoid and the ignition wire and that stopped it from back feeding.

Then whole conversion cost less than $20 and it works perfect. It's not hard to wire it in either. If anyone would like pictures or more detail let me know.

[Mike in Va]

Jacwjames, I bought the blue sea but haven't installed it yet. Can u tell me at what voltage does it maintain both house and chassis  batteries? Currently my house batteries are charged by a charger to 13.6 and my engine batteries are charged by the alternator to 12.6 give or take. Thanks

[Dr4Film]

7 hours ago, dleeadkins said:

I have a 2002 Windsor PKDD. After a close look at this circuit, I see I have no input from the chassis batteries. It was wired this way from the factory. All other connections are there. Seems the practical intent is to not combine the chassis and coach batteries while on shore power/converter charging. I jumped the chassis batteries 12 volts to the “chassis” post on the B.I.R.D. and it did indeed combine the batteries as designed. Any ideas? thanks

Chances are your BIRD is only wired to be an IRD. Do you have a Green Lambert Battery Maintainer? Do you have a White-Rogers Battery Isolator Relay? Do You have a Battery Maintainer Lock-Out Relay?

See attached photos.

[jacwjames]

51 minutes ago, Mike in Va said:

Jacwjames, I bought the blue sea but haven't installed it yet. Can u tell me at what voltage does it maintain both house and chassis  batteries? Currently my house batteries are charged by a charger to 13.6 and my engine batteries are charged by the alternator to 12.6 give or take. Thanks

Here is the instruction/information sheet for the Blue Sea. 

There are different triggers for charging in the table, it shows at 13.5 volts after 30 seconds it combines and at 13 volts for 90 seconds. 

My inverter charges the batteries at ~13.5, my alternator puts out +14 volts.  So it combines pretty quickly.  The remote switch that I mounted on the dash has LED lights and it shows whether it is combining or not.  You can also switch if off or leave it on.  For now I've pretty much left in in Automatic. 

So far so good, it's been working great. 

You do have an option of wiring in a sense wire that will delay the functions.   There is an option for the start function, supposedly the delay prevents a putting a big load on the alternator.  You can also wiring in an isolation function so that if you are running the generator and engine at the same time it won'd combine.  I was tempted to do this and even put the wires in but left the fuses out for the time being.  I haven't run the generator while driving yet so haven't seen a conflict yet. 

[dleeadkins]

59 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Chances are your BIRD is only wired to be an IRD. Do you have a Green Lambert Battery Maintainer? Do you have a White-Rogers Battery Isolator Relay? Do You have a Battery Maintainer Lock-Out Relay?

See attached photos.

Yes! I have all of that. My bay looks identical to the pictures. 
 

I believe I was missing the Lambert Maintainer piece of the puzzle. It charges the chassis battery while on Shore power. I guess that is why there was no input from the Coach battery on the BIRD. Why did they not use the BIRD feature to use the converter to charge the chassis battery? Is the Lambert a better charger option?

[Ivylog]

Why not hook up the chassis’s voltage wire and see how it goes?

[Dr4Film]

Is your Lambert Battery Maintainer working correctly? Have you tested it to make sure?

I have attached a couple of Lambert Battery Maintainer documents I have had in my files. Hopefully they will be of some help.

LAMBERT Battery Maintainer LE-415.pdf LAMBERT Battey Maintainer.doc

[jacwjames]

My Lambert started to act up and wasn't keeping my chassis batteries charged, hence the change to the Blue sea.

Here is the info on the Bluesea, I forgot to include it in my previous post.

 

Bluesea instructions.pdf

[waterskier_1]

9 hours ago, dleeadkins said:

I have a 2002 Windsor PKDD. After a close look at this circuit, I see I have no input from the chassis batteries. It was wired this way from the factory. All other connections are there. Seems the practical intent is to not combine the chassis and coach batteries while on shore power/converter charging. I jumped the chassis batteries 12 volts to the “chassis” post on the B.I.R.D. and it did indeed combine the batteries as designed. Any ideas? thanks

That is possibly because you don't have a BIRD (Bidirectional Isolator RelayDelay) , but rather you have an IRD (Isolator Relay Delay) which was not Bidirectional.  That is, it only allowed charging from the alternator to both the chassis & house batteries, but not the other way (from shore power to both chassis & house batteries).