Starting issue

[Twomed]

IF you have checked all of the above suggest you replace the starter solenoid before the starter.  High energy contacts in there get pitted over time just like in the Big Boy.  Whole lot less $$ than the starter motor.  Any good starter/alternator shop will tell you brushes and solenoids go way before the starter motor...if you can find one these days.

 

[Georgia Mike]

I made it Home Saturday without any issues with the starter on my last 3 stops. When I went today to bring it over to the storage lot it took 6 attempts to start it each time I could hear the solenoid engage. I looked in the parts file and found this:  (Cummins ISL 400 DensoRemy Model 8300013; 39MT; 12 Volts; rotation CW) I have searched on line for this with these numbers and I get many different looking starters. Some have the gear fully exposed and some as in someone’s previous post shows it partially covered. Has anyone replaced their ISL 400 starter and no what would fit my year? This is a picture of my starter and it has a different number then the one listed in the parts file

 

[Dr4Film]

Have you considered taking what you have to a Certified Leece-Neville shop to have it completely rebuilt?

[Georgia Mike]

I found a shop that rebuilds starters and other components so I’m going to bring it over to them. He told me that parts are hard to get for the Leece Navile starters so I might end up having to get another one. I’m hoping it’s just a bad solenoid……should be interesting 

[Tom Cherry]

My take….based on the comment here going back to early 2009.  

Rebuild LN unit

Only factory new LN replacement parts.  They ARE out there.  Folks or shops don’t want to spend time sourcing….easy to get imported knockoffs.

replace just about every part.  Assume armature & windings & frame is OK.

IF this was a an alternator…..THEN….New diodes despite what their cheap tester says.

Thats it….

[Flyinhy]

C & S Auto Electric Inc

Mableton GA 

Used these guys for years rebuilding crane and truck starters. 

[Georgia Mike]

Thanks for the information on C&S auto. I went over and it looks like the Starter bolts are 12 point sockets. The only one I found fits is 1/2 inch but it seems like it has a tad bit of play. Does anyone know if it metric?

Edited June 13, 2023 by Georgia Mike

[Dr4Film]

Mike,

That bolt head looks more like a 12 point Flange Head Bolt. Whether it is metric or not, won't know until you remove the bolt and match up the thread pattern to either standard or metric. If there is still play with a standard 12 point socket then I would definitely try the metric socket.

Explanation of 12 Point Flange Bolts - https://www.aftfasteners.com/12-point-flange-bolts/

[Georgia Mike]

Thanks Richard. I did some more research on these bolts and found it looks like a 12 point spline bolt. Maybe that’s the same as flange bolt I’m not sure. They look similar. I’m going to order a 12 point spline kit and see if that fits better. I don’t even want to attempt it unless that socket fits snug on there. That’s all I need is to round the head then I really have problems.

 

 

[Bruce S]

When we first purchased our current coach with the Cummins 500Hp ISM we had different starting issues that turned into a whole saga of corrections but when the starter motor actually failed the original was no longer available.  The new replacement has a reducer gear.  The difference in amperage ended our problems.  Original starter amps 750-900A.  New starter amps 100-200A.  BTW - the mounting bolts for the starter looked strange to me as almost looking like reverse torque heads while in fact they are for 12 point sockets.

[dl_racing427]

On 6/13/2023 at 6:51 PM, Georgia Mike said:

Thanks for the information on C&S auto. I went over and it looks like the Starter bolts are 12 point sockets. The only one I found fits is 1/2 inch but it seems like it has a tad bit of play. Does anyone know if it metric?

Most all engine fasteners since the 1980's are metric.
13mm and 1/2" are very close to the same size.  IIRC the 1/2" socket fits a bit tighter.

It does not look like a spline drive bolt to me.  Splines have flat tops, where a standard 12 pt. has pointed.
I've also seen corrosion slightly reduce the size of a bolt head, which could be why the 1/2" seems loose.

[Georgia Mike]

I went over today to remove the starter. The 12mm spline socket fit perfectly no play in it at all. The two bottom bolts came off no problem but the top one that’s hidden and hard to get to was a real PITA. The solenoid on the top made it very difficult to get the socket on it. I tried many different extensions and swivels and after and hour or more I finally got it off. I brought it up to C&S in Atlanta to get it rebuilt. They just called me and said they can’t get parts for it so the are rebuilding a Delco starter for me. The other shop I talked two said the same thing about the Leece Neville starters no parts so I guess you can’t get those rebuilt anymore 

[Georgia Mike]

I picked up my starter today and plan on installing it back on tomorrow. I made a jig to help guide it back into place because it weighs a ton. I would like to put something on the connections to help prevent corrosion since it’s so exposed underneath. I have kind of ruled out dielectric grease and I’m wondering if I should just put it on dry and spray on the red stuff I normally put on the battery terminals.  This is what I have.

 

[Bruce S]

I would use copper anti seize compound myself.  They use this on industrial equipment that needs to come apart again.  Do not use oil or grease as the bolts could slowly back themselves out.

[Flyinhy]

Always check the "clocking" of the drive housing. Sometimes the bolts are one spot off and the starter will not mount correctly. A real pain in the @ss to put that big joker in place to only hear it spin. 

[Bruce S]

I misread your intentions above.  My previous comment was in regard to the mounting bolts.  Vasoline or dielectric grease should work fine on the electrical connections.

[Georgia Mike]

Yesterday I installed the starter and it went pretty well. It was a struggle getting it in place but finally got it bolted back on. I cleaned all the connections with a wire brush then coated them with terminal spray. Then the moment of truth…..it fired right up and a big sigh of relief. I started it 4 or 5 times and it was perfect so hopefully I can close this chapter and move on to another.

[Flyinhy]

Good to hear when things work out well. What did you end up doing with the old starter?

[Georgia Mike]

5 hours ago, Flyinhy said:

Good to hear when things work out well. What did you end up doing with the old starter?

I had to leave it as a core for the rebuilt starter I received. I thought $300 was a fair deal