Vitron Mutliplus II conversion from Magnum. Power issues…System not drawing amp but Voltage OK. Need assistance.

[JDCrow]

I’ll try and go through you posts and digest. 

I apologize as my attitude is not on point, and I’m sure it’s coming across as unappreciative. 
 

I have way to many irons in the proverbial  fire so to speak. 

A work property, and personal property I’m working on,
 

And It’s difficult to be somewhat handy and knowledgeable. Not a knock on my family, but when they know you can do stuff, they seem to seek you out for their projects. It’s get a bit overwhelming, honestly at times I get get to feeling unappreciated for the output. 
 

So my sad sack story to round about say thanks and Sorry, 

everyone have a good night 
 

 

[JDCrow]

Just got home, haven’t read through your posts, but I had a weird wrinkle. 
 

The Watch Dog threw up an E6 code and said my 110 connection had and open neural and it would not allow power in until remedied. 
 

Took a pic, and 15 seconds later it turned on and is letting power in. I don’t have the Multiplus dialed in, so I can’t view it, but it appears that it is doing its boost thing as the intellitec is showing 30 amps available, one a 15 amp circut from my shed. And sure enough, able to run an AC with just yje extension cord from the shed. 
 

Anyway, I’m going to open the watchdog as well and check for anything out of the ordinary in it as well, 

 

Thanks 

JD

Edited September 5, 2023 by JDCrow
Spelling

[96 EVO]

Believe I took that 'Shot in the dark' early on in this thread, and now it's looking like a decent possibility !

[JDCrow]

21 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Believe I took that 'Shot in the dark' early on in this thread, and now it's looking like a decent possibility !

Well, I’ll have to go back and read what you said 😂

On 8/15/2023 at 8:28 AM, 96 EVO said:

Could be an issue with your Watchdog as well, with the internal breaker occasionally tripping.

Well there ya go! 

[Tom Cherry]

42 minutes ago, JDCrow said:

Just got home, haven’t read through your posts, but I had a weird wrinkle. 
 

The Watch Dog threw up an E6 code and said my 110 connection had and open neural and it would not allow power in until remedied. 
 

Took a pic, and 15 seconds later it turned on and is letting power in. I don’t have the Multiplus dialed in, so I can’t view it, but it appears that it is doing its boost thing as the intellitec is showing 30 amps available, one a 15 amp circut from my shed. And sure enough, able to run an AC with just yje extension cord from the shed. 
 

Anyway, I’m going to open the watchdog as well and check for anything out of the ordinary in it as well, 

 

Thanks 

JD

When on an extension or only 15 or 20 amps, you need to push the button and toggle to 20.

As to the open neutral… Without knowing your brand and model of ATS….my advice….FILE AWAY the Open Neutral and DO NOT FORGET it.  There are a myriad of reasons why…but, it sure AIN’T the ATS…as you WatchDog is upstream of the ATS.

Personally, as much time and effort and also “electronics” you have invested…I would NOT mess with this until I had a NEW Camco 50Amp power plug.  They fail….and if the internal crimp is failing….that is not GOOD.  Order the plug from Amazon.  Also order a tube of Dow Corning 4 Insulating compound.  Cut off the end.  Attach the new plug.  Go over the screws about 3 times.  Use a large handle screwdriver and a rough (red) shop towel.  Wrap two wraps of the ckoth over the handle.  Then “rare down” on it.  Give it all you got.  Put the plug in a padded vise or clamped.  Then use your non dominant (usually left) hand to push down on the top of the handle and your right hand (rag around the handle) and lay into it.  An average Male with good grip strength will be sble to generate the 40 inch pounds required.  Do it again.  Then put on the cover.  Use it for a few weeks….then retorque.  Then FILL the cavity with the Dow Corning.  That is as close to a molded or waterproof olug as you can get.  

We have had a lot of crimping failures.  I had one.  open Neutral.  I would NOT risk damage or having intermittent and the WatchDog cycling…. Cheap insurance and one less item to fix,  IF the Open Neutral comes back…then it gets tough…but based on me helping quite a few folks, odds are…inside the plug.  So, easy fix…
 

[JDCrow]

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

When on an extension or only 15 or 20 amps, you need to push the button and toggle to 20.

As to the open neutral… Without knowing your brand and model of ATS….my advice….FILE AWAY the Open Neutral and DO NOT FORGET it.  There are a myriad of reasons why…but, it sure AIN’T the ATS…as you WatchDog is upstream of the ATS.

Personally, as much time and effort and also “electronics” you have invested…I would NOT mess with this until I had a NEW Camco 50Amp power plug.  They fail….and if the internal crimp is failing….that is not GOOD.  Order the plug from Amazon.  Also order a tube of Dow Corning 4 Insulating compound.  Cut off the end.  Attach the new plug.  Go over the screws about 3 times.  Use a large handle screwdriver and a rough (red) shop towel.  Wrap two wraps of the ckoth over the handle.  Then “rare down” on it.  Give it all you got.  Put the plug in a padded vise or clamped.  Then use your non dominant (usually left) hand to push down on the top of the handle and your right hand (rag around the handle) and lay into it.  An average Male with good grip strength will be sble to generate the 40 inch pounds required.  Do it again.  Then put on the cover.  Use it for a few weeks….then retorque.  Then FILL the cavity with the Dow Corning.  That is as close to a molded or waterproof olug as you can get.  

We have had a lot of crimping failures.  I had one.  open Neutral.  I would NOT risk damage or having intermittent and the WatchDog cycling…. Cheap insurance and one less item to fix,  IF the Open Neutral comes back…then it gets tough…but based on me helping quite a few folks, odds are…inside the plug.  So, easy fix…
 

Thanks, I just came home and the Coach was dead again. The 15 amp breaker was flipped. I moved the cord over to a 20 amp outlet and got the neutral warning again. Unplugged the camco cord at the dog bone and the watchdog fired right up again with no codes. 
 

Ordering a new cord and the other items you suggested. 

I’m not following you on toggling the Intellitec to 20 as with the Multiplus boost I have 30 amps of power, unless I’m off on that as well. 

Anyway, thanks for sticking with me on this 

 

JD 

[Tom Cherry]

8 hours ago, JDCrow said:

Thanks, I just came home and the Coach was dead again. The 15 amp breaker was flipped. I moved the cord over to a 20 amp outlet and got the neutral warning again. Unplugged the camco cord at the dog bone and the watchdog fired right up again with no codes. 
 

Ordering a new cord and the other items you suggested. 

I’m not following you on toggling the Intellitec to 20 as with the Multiplus boost I have 30 amps of power, unless I’m off on that as well. 

Anyway, thanks for sticking with me on this 

 

JD 

Your EMS is downstream and doing, unless you have also bypassed the shedding relays when you did your extensive electrical upgrade, its job.  Thus, if you don’t have 30 amp power, you need to be on 20.

Now….as to your Multiplus booster.  I haven’t a clue. The laws of physics and electricity have to prevail.  If you have a  15 amp circuit and it has a 120 VAC potential (as my old EE profs would say), then you have 1800 watts of power.  

I don’t see how a device, unless it has a heck of a bank of capacitors or storage batteries and inverter can “generate or boost” an incoming 15 amp service from 1800 watts to 3600 watts.  NOW, what it MAY be doing is boosting the voltage so that when an AC motor needs to start, you get a “boost”.  

Many folks over the years used the Hughes Autoformer….and it did “boost” the voltage so that you did not operate your equipment at substandard voltages.  However, it was NOT a magic energy machine.  Whatever the incoming voltage was (average) multiplied by the amp capacity or the “real” current…that is all the “juice” that is coming in…

SO….hypothetically, you are in a park and there is heavy demand….lets make it simple….on both legs.  The average voltage is 100 VAC….and the circuit breaker is 50 amps. Thus, you have only 5000 Watts of available power…per LEG….. Since Energy is neither created nor destroyed only transferred…. 5000 watts is all there is.  Otherwise, the circuit breaker, with a high load, will pop.

Now…if you need 115 Volts…as the 100 volt incoming will damage your devices, I thought the Hughes boosted the voltage….say to 115 VAC.  OK, divide 5,000 by 115 VAC.  Thus, you will be limited to 43 amps per leg…. On the OUTGOING…if the Hughes tried to pull in excess on the incoming….bingo…the pedestal breakers will trip.

Then, obviously if your device is a “booster” and not a “storage device”, you need to throttle back or toggle to the lower EMS setting.  Think of it another way.  When an inverter doesn’t matter what brand asks for shore….You set it to 30 Amps as that is the circuit protection in the main panel breaker.  Then if you only have 20 amps, you have to set it lower as the inverter’s internal circuitry makes devision as to how much charging current to use and how much to “pass through”.

Maybe I don’t understand your unit, but, unless the device has a storage system, it can’t take only 1800 watts of supply or incoming power and double it….

As to your open neutral.  Overloading the 15/20 to 30 Amp cords is a recipe for disaster.  We have had MORE “OMG” posts about erratic power and failures and such over the years than I can count….and a major, later comment was, OPPS…I burned up my “adapter”.  That is dangerous as low voltage or open neutrals will do damage.  Most ofmthe adapters are barely rated for their UL specs…and they fail all THE time….especially if folks push them.

When you post again, if there is a problem, please specify if you are on a 15 or 30 amp adapter….that makes it easier for folks to respond with correct information.  

Good call on the spare 50A plug and insulating compound…you’ve got a lot invested and a “OMG…I’m dying” plug can wreak havoc…

Good luck.

[JDCrow]

Good morn, 

The Multiplus 2 boosts by combining your battery bank with whatever shore power you have to handle the load up the 30 amp threshold 

 

JD

[waterskier_1]

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Your EMS is downstream and doing, unless you have also bypassed the shedding relays when you did your extensive electrical upgrade, its job.  Thus, if you don’t have 30 amp power, you need to be on 20.

Now….as to your Multiplus booster.  I haven’t a clue. The laws of physics and electricity have to prevail.  If you have a  15 amp circuit and it has a 120 VAC potential (as my old EE profs would say), then you have 1800 watts of power.  

I don’t see how a device, unless it has a heck of a bank of capacitors or storage batteries and inverter can “generate or boost” an incoming 15 amp service from 1800 watts to 3600 watts.  NOW, what it MAY be doing is boosting the voltage so that when an AC motor needs to start, you get a “boost”.  

Many folks over the years used the Hughes Autoformer….and it did “boost” the voltage so that you did not operate your equipment at substandard voltages.  However, it was NOT a magic energy machine.  Whatever the incoming voltage was (average) multiplied by the amp capacity or the “real” current…that is all the “juice” that is coming in…

SO….hypothetically, you are in a park and there is heavy demand….lets make it simple….on both legs.  The average voltage is 100 VAC….and the circuit breaker is 50 amps. Thus, you have only 5000 Watts of available power…per LEG….. Since Energy is neither created nor destroyed only transferred…. 5000 watts is all there is.  Otherwise, the circuit breaker, with a high load, will pop.

Now…if you need 115 Volts…as the 100 volt incoming will damage your devices, I thought the Hughes boosted the voltage….say to 115 VAC.  OK, divide 5,000 by 115 VAC.  Thus, you will be limited to 43 amps per leg…. On the OUTGOING…if the Hughes tried to pull in excess on the incoming….bingo…the pedestal breakers will trip.

Then, obviously if your device is a “booster” and not a “storage device”, you need to throttle back or toggle to the lower EMS setting.  Think of it another way.  When an inverter doesn’t matter what brand asks for shore….You set it to 30 Amps as that is the circuit protection in the main panel breaker.  Then if you only have 20 amps, you have to set it lower as the inverter’s internal circuitry makes devision as to how much charging current to use and how much to “pass through”.

Maybe I don’t understand your unit, but, unless the device has a storage system, it can’t take only 1800 watts of supply or incoming power and double it….

As to your open neutral.  Overloading the 15/20 to 30 Amp cords is a recipe for disaster.  We have had MORE “OMG” posts about erratic power and failures and such over the years than I can count….and a major, later comment was, OPPS…I burned up my “adapter”.  That is dangerous as low voltage or open neutrals will do damage.  Most ofmthe adapters are barely rated for their UL specs…and they fail all THE time….especially if folks push them.

When you post again, if there is a problem, please specify if you are on a 15 or 30 amp adapter….that makes it easier for folks to respond with correct information.  

Good call on the spare 50A plug and insulating compound…you’ve got a lot invested and a “OMG…I’m dying” plug can wreak havoc…

Good luck.

Tom, he has a Victron MultiPlus Inverter, not a Magnum.  The Magnum settings and remote panel are not applicable.

There is a similar setting in Victron, which may require a Configuration Application to change, depending on how it is set up.  All that feature does (absent some interface with the Intellect Load Sharing Circuit Board), is to limit the battery charging. That is, it will not let the charger consume any power that might be required by other loads.

The way the Boost (called Hybrid Boost also) functions is to indeed use the House Batteries and the Inverter to supplement the incoming power.  Think of it as paralleling the Shore Power and the Inverter - for descriptive purposes.  It is more than simply tying wires together.  Victron MultiPlus (and Multiplus II and some newer Magnums) can do this and supply up to twice the input current, limited by the maximum the inverter can supply.  It may seem like magic, but it does not violate any laws of physics or electricity.

The Victron website has tons of information (much more than most of us can digest) about their products.  But, as I have mentioned before, Victron's business plan is to have dealers/installers who are trained on the produce do the installation, configuration, and setup.  The manufacturer does not support DIY or questions from non-Victorn professionals.  

I think it is important, along with knowing the year and model of the coach, to know the specific equipment being discussed.  I do think it was clear in this case it is Victron, and not Magnum, based upon the Subject Title.

  -Rick N.

[JDCrow]

Yeah I will add the set up to my signature.

Thanks for help Clarifying

 

JD  

[Tom Cherry]

37 minutes ago, waterskier_1 said:

Tom, he has a Victron MultiPlus Inverter, not a Magnum.  The Magnum settings and remote panel are not applicable.

There is a similar setting in Victron, which may require a Configuration Application to change, depending on how it is set up.  All that feature does (absent some interface with the Intellect Load Sharing Circuit Board), is to limit the battery charging. That is, it will not let the charger consume any power that might be required by other loads.

The way the Boost (called Hybrid Boost also) functions is to indeed use the House Batteries and the Inverter to supplement the incoming power.  Think of it as paralleling the Shore Power and the Inverter - for descriptive purposes.  It is more than simply tying wires together.  Victron MultiPlus (and Multiplus II and some newer Magnums) can do this and supply up to twice the input current, limited by the maximum the inverter can supply.  It may seem like magic, but it does not violate any laws of physics or electricity.

The Victron website has tons of information (much more than most of us can digest) about their products.  But, as I have mentioned before, Victron's business plan is to have dealers/installers who are trained on the produce do the installation, configuration, and setup.  The manufacturer does not support DIY or questions from non-Victorn professionals.  

I think it is important, along with knowing the year and model of the coach, to know the specific equipment being discussed.  I do think it was clear in this case it is Victron, and not Magnum, based upon the Subject Title.

  -Rick N.

My point….exactly.  You and others are better qualified.  But, he said his electric knowledge was limited in the first post and we have no information other than he moved some 120 circuits.

BUT, if he didn’t bypass or mess with the EMS, then it should be operated properly.  Yes, I knew he had a different inverter.  But, proper set up of any device, Magnum, Xantrex, MultiPlus, etc is to follow the installation instructions.

My comment about downrating an Inverter, which I qualified as “typcally” was meant to be educational and informative to conventional inverter users, as well as specifically, folks with Magnums and do not understand what Shore Setup is nor how to do it.  We get way too many questions, as well as problems when folks overload or try to unknowingly use a 15 or 20 A receptacle without changing the shore.

YES…there is a world of info on the MultiPlus and many like you have a vast knowledge.  However, sometimes, we choose to explain or share problems that, as we grow and expand the site, may not be known to new members….  We kidded one time about a “quiz” for acceptance.  BUT… As we grow and expland, we have to realize that many are just learning and repeat the fundamentals or explain some basics… Obviously a Catch 22… but such is becoming an issue, so educating and repetition will be more of the norm..

I dare say that 95% of the group are conventional MH…< 5% have a MultiPlus.  Same for the CCM.  But, we have many folks that are not familiar with those two specialties and often post information that is incorrect and sometimes, if followed, is detrimental as the OP may not be aware of the idiosyncrasies and nuances of those two systems.

Thus, do we moderators let comments stand or we missed or ignore and there is damage…or such.  Or NOT?  Always a judgement call.

In cases like this, there was a debate, early on, to ask you and others to take this discussion offline…and report back the solution as well as the rationale and how it was resolved.

Since there were ongoing issues and JD stated he did not have a good electrical background…the decision was to use the topic as an educational as well as problem solving one.

Therefore, I went into more basics and tried to explain the fundamentals of how a downstream device that picks up additional battery power was different than the more conventional Hughes Autoformer approach….which is used a lot.

I meant no disrespect to JD and wanted to explain certain electrical concepts, that you are more than well versed in, so that others learned.

In addition….it the MultiPlus is installed and gets more use….we have a good data base or topic for new members.

Thats it…and our logic and the concerns of the staff…

I certainly hope JD gets this resolved…but sometimes a few posts later, we realize that a 15-30-50 adapter(s) is in use and that they usually get overloaded and burned and an open neutral would definitely be a possibility…  

Thanks for understanding the intent and tone of some posts and explanations….

[JDCrow]

Yeah I’m fine, I appreciate your concern. 
 

While I know the mechanics of what I have, the theory and testing is the knowledge I lack.  
 

Tom, you have an insane amount of knowledge, and have been a big help to me. I’ll admit, I have to slow down and reread what you have posted as it is way above my pay grade. While I was a math major in college, it was in probability and statics. My grandfather was amazing at all things electrical, I wish he was still around. 
 

As far as adaptation of dogbones, I hope I was clear, it’s been 50 amps the whole time until yesterday when I arrived home and posted I was on a 110 outlet. It actually seems like that was a godsend as it set a lightbulb off for Tom and maybe have found the solution to all this mess. 
 

The hardest part through all of this, is I trust everyone here more than I would a shop in town or on the road. That’s the beauty of this board, the experience that is here and the willingness to help.

I updated my signature, and will keep in mind the next thread I have to start out with not only the issue, but what I have as far as a set up. 
 

again, many thanks 

 

[Dick Roberts]

On 9/5/2023 at 12:45 PM, Tom Cherry said:

My point….exactly.  You and others are better qualified.  But, he said his electric knowledge was limited in the first post and we have no information other than he moved some 120 circuits.

BUT, if he didn’t bypass or mess with the EMS, then it should be operated properly.  Yes, I knew he had a different inverter.  But, proper set up of any device, Magnum, Xantrex, MultiPlus, etc is to follow the installation instructions.

My comment about downrating an Inverter, which I qualified as “typcally” was meant to be educational and informative to conventional inverter users, as well as specifically, folks with Magnums and do not understand what Shore Setup is nor how to do it.  We get way too many questions, as well as problems when folks overload or try to unknowingly use a 15 or 20 A receptacle without changing the shore.

YES…there is a world of info on the MultiPlus and many like you have a vast knowledge.  However, sometimes, we choose to explain or share problems that, as we grow and expand the site, may not be known to new members….  We kidded one time about a “quiz” for acceptance.  BUT… As we grow and expland, we have to realize that many are just learning and repeat the fundamentals or explain some basics… Obviously a Catch 22… but such is becoming an issue, so educating and repetition will be more of the norm..

I dare say that 95% of the group are conventional MH…< 5% have a MultiPlus.  Same for the CCM.  But, we have many folks that are not familiar with those two specialties and often post information that is incorrect and sometimes, if followed, is detrimental as the OP may not be aware of the idiosyncrasies and nuances of those two systems.

Thus, do we moderators let comments stand or we missed or ignore and there is damage…or such.  Or NOT?  Always a judgement call.

In cases like this, there was a debate, early on, to ask you and others to take this discussion offline…and report back the solution as well as the rationale and how it was resolved.

Since there were ongoing issues and JD stated he did not have a good electrical background…the decision was to use the topic as an educational as well as problem solving one.

Therefore, I went into more basics and tried to explain the fundamentals of how a downstream device that picks up additional battery power was different than the more conventional Hughes Autoformer approach….which is used a lot.

I meant no disrespect to JD and wanted to explain certain electrical concepts, that you are more than well versed in, so that others learned.

In addition….it the MultiPlus is installed and gets more use….we have a good data base or topic for new members.

Thats it…and our logic and the concerns of the staff…

I certainly hope JD gets this resolved…but sometimes a few posts later, we realize that a 15-30-50 adapter(s) is in use and that they usually get overloaded and burned and an open neutral would definitely be a possibility…  

Thanks for understanding the intent and tone of some posts and explanations….

MODERATOR EDIT

This should be here since it deals with the MultiPlus and all the knowledge folks seem to respond.  If no activity or help, do some PMing…

Thanks for asking….

END EDIT

@Dick Roberts
 

Tom, I might should've started a new post, (feel free to move if you think it should be) but this post and your responses, as well as your many other useful posts on this subject, helped me correct an issue I've had from day one of owning this MH. The house batteries, 2.5 year old Decca, were not being reliably charged with the old Freedom 1500. Some days the inverter worked, some days it didn't. While here in Laurel MS, the HB went completely dead. Wouldn't even take a charge when disconnected and charged with a new stand alone smart charger. Bought 4 new Trojans, <$800 at Custom Carts of Laurel, hoping the inverter would see new batteries and start charging again. Of course it didn't. I went through many posts here to try to make a choice between Xantrex and Magnum, and after reading this post I added Victron to my choices. Further research revealed that I could get a Victron here for less than the other two, which had to be shipped, Convinced me that the Victron Multiplus Compact 2000 was the right choice. It was <$1500 at Panels Up Solar here in Laurel. The owner, Justin, set up the inverter at his shop, showed me how to regulate it with the blue tooth app, and I went back to the CG and had it installed in less than 3 hours. And with the phone app, no need to pull new wires for a remote panel.

Now if I could learn what device to replace this board/solenoid with?

Edited September 8, 2023 by Tom Cherry
Post is OK in this topic

[JDCrow]

Well the new cord end seems to have done the trick. No more open neutrals or no amps. 
 

thanks everyone for your input and help 

[JDCrow]

And ordered a new cord. I’m not a fan of the Camco end on the old cord, it’s hard plastic 

[96 EVO]

No cord reel?

[JDCrow]

46 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

No cord reel?

Dips are not that fancy

[96 EVO]

Ha!

Guess I've had one long enough I no longer consider it fancy 😉!

[JDCrow]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Ha!

Guess I've had one long enough I no longer consider it fancy 😉!

Yeah I’m super short on room as well.