Vitron Mutliplus II conversion from Magnum. Power issues…System not drawing amp but Voltage OK. Need assistance.

[JDCrow]

Moderator edit

Based on the most recent post, the Vitron Multiplus II is a combination of an “autoformer, UPS, and also inverter/charger.  This is nit a conventional system as was originally thought. Title has been edited to reflect such.  End of edit.

Just rolled up to the coach last night and it had no power. So went outside and cycled  the 50amp at the Pedestal and it flipped back on. However, all night, and currently, the coach loses power for about 30 seconds and flips back on. I can see no input with my Victron, and my watchdog won’t kick off because it has voltage. But the watchdog also shows no amps. 

Any thoughts? I’m leaning towards the pedestal as it had an issue when we got here a few months ago. My watchdog wouldn’t let power in because of a fault. Host put in a new breaker and it was fine last time I was here. 

Anyway I was able to screen shot when there was no amps coming in on the watchdog.

I am no electrician, so go easy on me as I try convince the host I believe there is an issue in pedestal 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Tom Cherry
OEM Inverter has been removed. This is not a conventional OEM installation.

[cbr046]

It's Ohms Law.  If you have voltage and resistance (load) you must have current, but that's not to say just because your Watchdog is sensing voltage is isn't passing that voltage to the coach.  If there's a faulty neutral or ground that could prevent it from passing voltage to the coach.  Your Watchdog should have an indicator for this. 

I'd check voltage into the Watchdog and at the output of your Watchdog. 

Definitely fishy. 

- bob

 

[JDCrow]

2 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

It's Ohms Law.  If you have voltage and resistance (load) you must have current, but that's not to say just because your Watchdog is sensing voltage is isn't passing that voltage to the coach.  If there's a faulty neutral or ground that could prevent it from passing voltage to the coach.  Your Watchdog should have an indicator for this. 

I'd check voltage into the Watchdog and at the output of your Watchdog. 

Definitely fishy. 

- bob

 

Will do, it’s been fine the last 2 hours now, go figure 

[TomV48]

Not a Hughes user but volts, with no amps suggests to me,no load.  I'd be looking on the coach side.   If your Hughes is external, check it's out going side for voltage.  If voltage,then follow it in to the coach. If none move back to pedestal  I would still worry about an intermittent situation.   A poor or intermittent contact some where up or down stream may mean a lot of resistance even when appearing to be connected means HEAT.  A warm (poor) connection leads to heat, leads to fire.   

 

Good luck.

[Tom Cherry]

Self healing electrical issues are a sign of bad things to come.  From the beginning, pictures or better narrative needed.  I googled a PERAL Hughes aytoformer WatchDog and could not get a “hit” with peral…. So.  Gonna guess….

ASSUME you have a hardwired AutoFormer Watch Dog.  So, on your end…start at the incoming power (shore unplugged and genny CB OFF…OF COURSE).  Tighten all the screws on the AC terminals….then…do it again. Then, if you have a J-box between the line to the built in one, check the connections.

OK… again, guessing due to lack of info….if it is a Pedestrian or portable unit….it is in the pedestal 

Next.  You don’t need to be an electrician, but you DO need to know what “codes” or error messages it outs out.  The Progressive Industries Hard Wired HW50C that is the most prevalent here has 12 error codes that tell you WHY, “l ain’t gonna turn on and give you power because it can hurt your ATS or devices”.

OK…finally, out of curiosity, found a manual for a WatchDog.  There is a HOST of error codes….

BUT…if you do NOT have a hard wired unit and a portable…then there is an issue INSIDE.  The fact that you lost  power on and off are spooky.  

if you had a hardwired PowerDog, right before the ATS, then it is checking the shore as well.  If you don’t understand an open neutral.  The circuit made to every AC device by Line (1 or 2) must be connected to the neutral.  But, if your shore plug or your ATS loses the neutral…BAD NEWS.  The Line 1 and L2 have to have “a mate”.  So they PAIR UP.  They then will kick the voltage inside the MH to 150 - 180 VAC and potentially FRY stuff.  One of our old members, in a Windsor, lost every AC device due to a bad pedestal receptacle and finally got the Park’s insurance to reimburse him the $20K to fix it.  Or that was what he had been charged.  The water heater, TV, inverter, AC, microwave, whatever got or was turned on and used were destroyed.

SO…do the tightening.  Go buy a VOM and watch YouTube and see if you can understand.  If NOT, get an Electrician.  They are NOT working on the MH…just on basic 120VAC power distribution like in a house.

ODDS ARE…from your narrative, and some guessing…if have a portable plug into the pedestal WatchDog, and do NOT find a loose connection inside the ATS, you either have a serious loose connection up stream…like in a juction box…or like me…your shore plug just “failed”.  No rhyme or reason.  i have swing out bay doors with  a gas strut…i opened one and the gas strut gently pushes it out.  It barely (do you understand FLEA KICK?) tapped the plug.  NO Neutral and all power shut off.  I rsn the genny and spent hours testing everything.  In desperation, I cut off the plug.  Did a continuity check…Neutral came uncrimped inside.  Stole my “emergency generator” backfeed 50 Amp…been good since 2014… I have a spare new one that i carry.

We need MORE info and pictures of yiur setup and the power connections,  this is dangerous… 

 

 

[JDCrow]

Ok I’ll try and elaborate a bit. I get Tom’s drift, and my thoughts on reading were exactly, open circuit. 
 

What was running in coach, TV, refer, and Victron in absorption/float. Of course the microwave, washer/dryer and phones charging.  So I had load in the Coach. 
 

I have a hard wired Watchdog, ahead of the go power transfer switch, and thus ahead of Genny.

I still have the intellitec installed as well, it wouldn’t goto to 50 amps while this was happening. It was 20 or 30c showing a 7 amp draw.
 

The whole coach would just go “dead” everything went off, fridge switched to gas then 1-2 mins it would all come back on. My Victron said no power coming in, so wasn’t worried to much, but then realized the watchdog wasn’t kicking off like it does when you hook up to a plug. So I turned on the app and waited, and sure enough, the Coach would die, and you saw the read out in the one pic. There was voltage, which the watchdog monitors, but no amps, so it wouldn’t kick off.  So no error codes because voltage is fine

Again, right now, we are issue free for a few hours. We are drawing the same amps as before. I’m going to talk with host and let them go through ped again and tighten/inspect 

 

Thanks all

[TomV48]

24 minutes ago, JDCrow said:

 

I have a hard wired Watchdog, ahead of the go power transfer switch, and thus ahead of Genny.

 

Ok, just for confirmation.   Your HUGHES IS "BEFORE" the transfer switch, so it is not reading generator, or transfer switch output.   Right??

Have you encountered the problem when on generator??

[waterskier_1]

Confirm you have 110VAC on each leg OUT of the watchdog.  If you do, you know things are good to that point.  Continue checking voltages through the transfer switch and to the main power panel. Of course, this testing would be done when you have no current draw.  

  - Rick N

[JDCrow]

37 minutes ago, TomV48 said:

 

Ok, just for confirmation.   Your HUGHES IS "BEFORE" the transfer switch, so it is not reading generator, or transfer switch output.   Right??

Have you encountered the problem when on generator??

Yes before transfer switch . This is brand new issue here at the park, so haven’t had time to fire up Gen. Will try that. When we leave we are going to unplug the Coach till it’s sorted. Given the history with the pedestal, I’m pretty confident its the problem 

6 minutes ago, waterskier_1 said:

Confirm you have 110VAC on each leg OUT of the watchdog.  If you do, you know things are good to that point.  Continue checking voltages through the transfer switch and to the main power panel. Of course, this testing would be done when you have no current draw.  

  - Rick N

Many thanks, I don’t have the time or tools with me at this point. Headed home this eve. We are going to unplug it and shut it all down till we come back. Right now we are using the coach as a “summer” home. It’s at the park for a few months as a getaway from work 

Edited August 14, 2023 by JDCrow

[JohnC3]

My spidy sense is saying ATS. Maybe thinking it's got power from the genny when it's not on???  That would give you no power to your Circuit panel. When a relay failed in my ats, my EMS thought I was on 30A because line2 was not being passed to the panel.

Good hunting,

John

[JDCrow]

19 minutes ago, JohnC3 said:

My spidy sense is saying ATS. Maybe thinking it's got power from the genny when it's not on???  That would give you no power to your Circuit panel. When a relay failed in my ats, my EMS thought I was on 30A because line2 was not being passed to the panel.

Good hunting,

John

I understand what you saying, but forgive my ignorance in asking how the watchdog (circuit protection) would read no Amps coming in when it’s before the ATS? 
 

Again my understanding of electrical could use a lot of improvements. I can’t wrap my head around a “backfeed” of electrical output from the Coach to the Ped through the watchdog when the Coach isn’t producing any power. 
 

I need to wrap my head around all this. Just when I thought I had a good grasp after the out of whack charging from DC/DC charger and Genny running at same time. 

[JohnC3]

1 minute ago, JDCrow said:

I understand what you saying, but forgive my ignorance in asking how the watchdog (circuit protection) would read no Amps coming in when it’s before the ATS? 
 

Again my understanding of electrical could use a lot of improvements. I can’t wrap my head around a “backfeed” of electrical output from the Coach to the Ped through the watchdog when the Coach isn’t producing any power. 
 

I need to wrap my head around all this. Just when I thought I had a good grasp after the out of whack charging from DC/DC charger and Genny running at same time. 

If the ATS disconnects from shore power, there will be nowhere for the power to go. The coach would be disconnected from shore power just downstream of the watchdog, so the watchdog would see power but none could make it to the coach. That would show volts but no amps on the watchdog. Also, in my Ats there is an approx 30 second delay when switching from one source to another so maybe 30 secs for the power to come back.

 

[Tom Cherry]

17 hours ago, JDCrow said:

Yes before transfer switch . This is brand new issue here at the park, so haven’t had time to fire up Gen. Will try that. When we leave we are going to unplug the Coach till it’s sorted. Given the history with the pedestal, I’m pretty confident its the problem 

Many thanks, I don’t have the time or tools with me at this point. Headed home this eve. We are going to unplug it and shut it all down till we come back. Right now we are using the coach as a “summer” home. It’s at the park for a few months as a getaway from work 

@JDCrow This is WAY TOO LONG.  I admit that.  I tried to find your phone and was going to call you.  Please take time to read and understand...from your comments about not being an "electrician", I tried to explain the MOST PERPLEXING SYSTEM and the one that blows folks minds...even experienced MH owners.  

JD...from the top.  TWO MORE QUESTIONS...then if I am correct...then you will know WHERE TO LOOK.

You have a Gas Refrigerator.  The Refrigerator, when you are on SHORE, has a 10 A circuit breaker on the main panel. That is the HEATER circuit. The reason you have a Gas/Electric is to be able to boondock. The Heaters in the refrigerator ONLY WORK ON SHORE/Genny when you have AC Power.  UNLESS someone has blatently and unknowingly "REWIRED" then that is our CLUE.

Your HVAC units do NOT work off the Inverter.  They are also, as is your water heater, powered directly when you have Shore/Genny....so DID you try them or were they not working.  What you may not be clear on is how your AC outlets, inside near the sinks or the microwave work.

Power comes in from Shore (or Genny) directly to the Automatic Transfer Switch (the silver box) in your pictures. On the SHORE side, your MH and the ATS is protected from faulty voltage or open neutrals or low or high or whatever.  If the power is "defective", then your WatchDog protects it.  The Genny Power is very clean.  It does NOT need protection and your PowerDog is wired properly.  BUT....here is what you should know..

The AC power inside the MH (outlets and microwave) actually GOES THROUGH your Inverter/Charger or, in your case, the Victron. This confuses some folks until they sort of sit down and "noodle it out".  When you are on Shore or Genny, you have AC power going to the ATS.  When the Genny is running...bingo, the ATS switches automatically to GENNY.  Now....follow that power (mentally) from the ATS.  It goes to the Main panel.

NOW, there is a 30 Amp breaker for the Inverter (Victron) in the main panel. That powers the Victron. When on SHORE/Genny, the Victron's internal electronics (and ALL RV/MH inverters work this way) checks for INCOMING (from the 30 A) 120 VAC power.  The Victron has an internal Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS).  Like your Main ATS, it's NORMAL mode is to send power out.  Your Large ATS (downstream of the WatchDog) works like this....it ASSUMES Shore power.  When you trip or turn on the pedestal breaker, then the Main ATS has a circuit board.  Ordinarily, and not knowing the brand you have, there may or may NOT be...depends on the circuitry, a lag.  BUT, when the ATS measures voltage from the Genny....even when you are ON SHORE, it says.  GENNY is running.  MUST SWITCH TO GENNY POWER.  Therefore, when Genny is on, even on SHORE, your AC is coming from the Genny...which actually gives you less usable power.

OK....the internal ATS in your Victron works the SAME way.  The ATS is NORMALLY CLOSED....as in it is like a light switch.  it is "on" and passing power.  BUT, if the Victron does NOT see or measure 120 VAC, it automatically starts to INVERT (gives you 120 VAC from your batteries).  That internal ATS then is energized...and now the "Board" inside the Inverter is providing CLEAN AC power and that ATS is closed or entergized...so the power you have for the interior outlets and the Microwave comes from the Inverter or Inverted side of the Charger/Inverter.

From all you describe....there is a PROBLEM internal to your MAIN ATS.  When you said the refrigerator SWITCHED to GAS...that was the clue.  BUT, until I saw the setup, that was a guess.

YES, you have NO internal power to the Victron.  NOW, that is where it gets a bit weird.  If the Victron was working properly, then there was NO AC coming from the main breaker....and the Victron should have been in use...and you should have had 120 VAC to the interior outlets.

What we saw on the pictures was that the ATS was receiving power....but there was NO POWER or CURRENT being drawn or used.  What is really SPOOKY....is why.  Without knowing the brand and the internal circuitry of your ATS, we can only GUESS.  SOME ATS have TWO separate Contactors or Relays.  One is a Dual Pole...or it has Line 1 and Line 2.  The relay has three sets of contacts.  When the ATS is normally CLOSED....one set of contacts is closed and passing power.  Power comes in to the Normally CLOSED side...and it is the SHORE.  Then that flows out or is passed along via the CENTER CONTACT....to the main panel. When the Genny is running, that contactor CLOSES or is energized.  Then the OTHER set of contacts, from the Genny, is then passing power to the SAME CENTER CONTACT...and on to your Main panel.  Thus there are two SEPARATE circuits...both being switched at the same time.  L1 on one side and L2 on the other.  That is why it is called DUAL POLE.

There is ALSO another relay inside the ATS.  It is a SINGLE pole.  When BOTH relays or contactors are springloaded and closed...the Neutral, which is on the SINGLE POLE relay or contactor, is feeding the Netural from the Shore to the Main panel. When the Genny runs....BOTH Contactors or relays close...You switch the L1 & L2 Realy FIRST....then a few Microseconds later, the Neutral switches.  

MY BEST GUESS....  You have an ISSUE inside the MAIN ATS.  That is the ONLY explanation.  Either there are LOOSE wires on the 10 or 12 terminals (sometimes the GROUNDS are all on one) or there is a defect in the contactors or the PCB (controller).  What happened....one of the contactors failed or God ONLY knows what.

SO...the FIX...  Open the ATS.  (Power off and Genny CB up front OFF).  Tighten all the lugs or terminals.  If that was NOT the problem, then the 30 seconds ON and then turns off, means the control board on the ATS is bad.  There is NO WAY to test it...other than to have power (shore..) then turn off the pedestal breaker...and then turn on the genny.  If it works...great...but if it acts up again....get a NEW ATS.  The ESCO LPT50BRD is probably the most popular, but you can research here, and some are running other brands.

That's it....and I have had almost 24 hours to "noodle" over it or troubleshoot in my head.

NOW, yes, the Pedestal looked crappy.  The ONLY WAY it could have been a DOWNSTREAM issue (on the Pedestal) would have been if the CB was defective and it did NOT trip or such.  BUT, the fact that you saw voltage....that is highly unlikely.  Do the PM on the ATS.  Also pull the main panel off when power is off and tighten all the screws and lugs in the Main panel.  That is something that should be done every 3 - 4 years.

BUT, if it happens again...don't live with it....get a NEW ATS as you will do damage.

NOW, as to the Victron...it SHOULD have been supplying power to the Interior outlets....so your SHOULD have had power to them....BUT, since you were on SHORE, the WATCHDOG showed NO AMPS....  Therefore, you had NO ELECTRICAL POWER coming from the ATS....and that is how that works.

THINK ON THIS....  That is how it works...

[JDCrow]

24 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

@JDCrow This is WAY TOO LONG.  I admit that.  I tried to find your phone and was going to call you.  Please take time to read and understand...from your comments about not being an "electrician", I tried to explain the MOST PERPLEXING SYSTEM and the one that blows folks minds...even experienced MH owners.  

JD...from the top.  TWO MORE QUESTIONS...then if I am correct...then you will know WHERE TO LOOK.

You have a Gas Refrigerator.  The Refrigerator, when you are on SHORE, has a 10 A circuit breaker on the main panel. That is the HEATER circuit. The reason you have a Gas/Electric is to be able to boondock. The Heaters in the refrigerator ONLY WORK ON SHORE/Genny when you have AC Power.  UNLESS someone has blatently and unknowingly "REWIRED" then that is our CLUE.

Your HVAC units do NOT work off the Inverter.  They are also, as is your water heater, powered directly when you have Shore/Genny....so DID you try them or were they not working.  What you may not be clear on is how your AC outlets, inside near the sinks or the microwave work.

Power comes in from Shore (or Genny) directly to the Automatic Transfer Switch (the silver box) in your pictures. On the SHORE side, your MH and the ATS is protected from faulty voltage or open neutrals or low or high or whatever.  If the power is "defective", then your WatchDog protects it.  The Genny Power is very clean.  It does NOT need protection and your PowerDog is wired properly.  BUT....here is what you should know..

The AC power inside the MH (outlets and microwave) actually GOES THROUGH your Inverter/Charger or, in your case, the Victron. This confuses some folks until they sort of sit down and "noodle it out".  When you are on Shore or Genny, you have AC power going to the ATS.  When the Genny is running...bingo, the ATS switches automatically to GENNY.  Now....follow that power (mentally) from the ATS.  It goes to the Main panel.

NOW, there is a 30 Amp breaker for the Inverter (Victron) in the main panel. That powers the Victron. When on SHORE/Genny, the Victron's internal electronics (and ALL RV/MH inverters work this way) checks for INCOMING (from the 30 A) 120 VAC power.  The Victron has an internal Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS).  Like your Main ATS, it's NORMAL mode is to send power out.  Your Large ATS (downstream of the WatchDog) works like this....it ASSUMES Shore power.  When you trip or turn on the pedestal breaker, then the Main ATS has a circuit board.  Ordinarily, and not knowing the brand you have, there may or may NOT be...depends on the circuitry, a lag.  BUT, when the ATS measures voltage from the Genny....even when you are ON SHORE, it says.  GENNY is running.  MUST SWITCH TO GENNY POWER.  Therefore, when Genny is on, even on SHORE, your AC is coming from the Genny...which actually gives you less usable power.

OK....the internal ATS in your Victron works the SAME way.  The ATS is NORMALLY CLOSED....as in it is like a light switch.  it is "on" and passing power.  BUT, if the Victron does NOT see or measure 120 VAC, it automatically starts to INVERT (gives you 120 VAC from your batteries).  That internal ATS then is energized...and now the "Board" inside the Inverter is providing CLEAN AC power and that ATS is closed or entergized...so the power you have for the interior outlets and the Microwave comes from the Inverter or Inverted side of the Charger/Inverter.

From all you describe....there is a PROBLEM internal to your MAIN ATS.  When you said the refrigerator SWITCHED to GAS...that was the clue.  BUT, until I saw the setup, that was a guess.

YES, you have NO internal power to the Victron.  NOW, that is where it gets a bit weird.  If the Victron was working properly, then there was NO AC coming from the main breaker....and the Victron should have been in use...and you should have had 120 VAC to the interior outlets.

What we saw on the pictures was that the ATS was receiving power....but there was NO POWER or CURRENT being drawn or used.  What is really SPOOKY....is why.  Without knowing the brand and the internal circuitry of your ATS, we can only GUESS.  SOME ATS have TWO separate Contactors or Relays.  One is a Dual Pole...or it has Line 1 and Line 2.  The relay has three sets of contacts.  When the ATS is normally CLOSED....one set of contacts is closed and passing power.  Power comes in to the Normally CLOSED side...and it is the SHORE.  Then that flows out or is passed along via the CENTER CONTACT....to the main panel. When the Genny is running, that contactor CLOSES or is energized.  Then the OTHER set of contacts, from the Genny, is then passing power to the SAME CENTER CONTACT...and on to your Main panel.  Thus there are two SEPARATE circuits...both being switched at the same time.  L1 on one side and L2 on the other.  That is why it is called DUAL POLE.

There is ALSO another relay inside the ATS.  It is a SINGLE pole.  When BOTH relays or contactors are springloaded and closed...the Neutral, which is on the SINGLE POLE relay or contactor, is feeding the Netural from the Shore to the Main panel. When the Genny runs....BOTH Contactors or relays close...You switch the L1 & L2 Realy FIRST....then a few Microseconds later, the Neutral switches.  

MY BEST GUESS....  You have an ISSUE inside the MAIN ATS.  That is the ONLY explanation.  Either there are LOOSE wires on the 10 or 12 terminals (sometimes the GROUNDS are all on one) or there is a defect in the contactors or the PCB (controller).  What happened....one of the contactors failed or God ONLY knows what.

SO...the FIX...  Open the ATS.  (Power off and Genny CB up front OFF).  Tighten all the lugs or terminals.  If that was NOT the problem, then the 30 seconds ON and then turns off, means the control board on the ATS is bad.  There is NO WAY to test it...other than to have power (shore..) then turn off the pedestal breaker...and then turn on the genny.  If it works...great...but if it acts up again....get a NEW ATS.  The ESCO LPT50BRD is probably the most popular, but you can research here, and some are running other brands.

That's it....and I have had almost 24 hours to "noodle" over it or troubleshoot in my head.

NOW, yes, the Pedestal looked crappy.  The ONLY WAY it could have been a DOWNSTREAM issue (on the Pedestal) would have been if the CB was defective and it did NOT trip or such.  BUT, the fact that you saw voltage....that is highly unlikely.  Do the PM on the ATS.  Also pull the main panel off when power is off and tighten all the screws and lugs in the Main panel.  That is something that should be done every 3 - 4 years.

BUT, if it happens again...don't live with it....get a NEW ATS as you will do damage.

NOW, as to the Victron...it SHOULD have been supplying power to the Interior outlets....so your SHOULD have had power to them....BUT, since you were on SHORE, the WATCHDOG showed NO AMPS....  Therefore, you had NO ELECTRICAL POWER coming from the ATS....and that is how that works.

THINK ON THIS....  That is how it works...

Wow, many thanks! I’m am reading and re-reading. 

I just woke up and off to work, I’ll try and sort through your points. 
 

We are headed back up Sunday eve to diagnose and I’ll tear into the ATS. It would be a bummer as it’s only a few years old. It has to go then it will go. 
 

Thanks again everyone. 

Thanks again to John and Tom. When 2 smart guys say go this way, you should go. 
 

At the time I was putting this all together, I knew I should have thrown the Esco in, but thought the money saved could have gone elsewhere. Anyway, I ordered one up and when it gets here it will go in. 

[JohnC3]

One last suggestion. When you open the ATS, look at the wires inside and any contacts especially on the contactors ( they look kind of like circuit breakers without the switch to turn them off...all black plastic and screws with wires on them). Look for melted looking wires/plastic or discolored (think darker than the other wires, I e. Blackened copper or screw terminals). These are a sign of an arc (overload). That can happen when the ATS tries to switch under load and it can ruin the contactor (I know from experience). That's why I added "turn off thermostat" to moving day checklist just before I. disconnect from the pedestal.

[JDCrow]

35 minutes ago, JohnC3 said:

One last suggestion. When you open the ATS, look at the wires inside and any contacts especially on the contactors ( they look kind of like circuit breakers without the switch to turn them off...all black plastic and screws with wires on them). Look for melted looking wires/plastic or discolored (think darker than the other wires, I e. Blackened copper or screw terminals). These are a sign of an arc (overload). That can happen when the ATS tries to switch under load and it can ruin the contactor (I know from experience). That's why I added "turn off thermostat" to moving day checklist just before I. disconnect from the pedestal.

Will do, I’ll take pics as I’m digging into it. 

BTW 

 

Did someone change the title of my topic? 😂

I don’t recall writing such a dramatic post title 

[cbr046]

53 minutes ago, JohnC3 said:

 . . . .  the ATS tries to switch under load and it can ruin the contactor (I know from experience). That's why I added "turn off thermostat" to moving day checklist just before I. disconnect from the pedestal.

Power should be zero whenever switching.  Generator, shore, inverter . . . . if you read the manual it says to switch off individual items before turning on / off the power source.  Until I read that I used to switch my generator in / out as needed for roof AC while going down the road.  NO MORE! 

- bob

[96 EVO]

Could be an issue with your Watchdog as well, with the internal breaker occasionally tripping.

[waterskier_1]

47 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Power should be zero whenever switching.  Generator, shore, inverter . . . . if you read the manual it says to switch off individual items before turning on / off the power source.  Until I read that I used to switch my generator in / out as needed for roof AC while going down the road.  NO MORE! 

- bob

Most of the A/Cs have a built-in automatic delay when starting up, whether from a cold start or an intermittent loss of power so the current would be minimal across the contacts.  Also, if true, you would have to remove or disable any AGS (Automatic Generator Start) functions since that is basically the same as starting the generator while going down the road.  Do you also turn off your inverter/charger?  Do you turn off the main battery disconnect?

  -Rick N.

 

 

 

 

loss of power

I would disregard anything that has to do with the inverter at this time.  Concentrate on getting voltage to the main 50 Amp Breaker in the Power Panel.  Once you have that, then you can chase inverter problems, if applicable.

  -Rick N.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, JDCrow said:

Will do, I’ll take pics as I’m digging into it. 

BTW 

 

Did someone change the title of my topic? 😂

I don’t recall writing such a dramatic post title 

Yes, NOT INTO "DRAMA".  Staff can edit the title to clarify or add more information.  That helps, we have been told, get better responses.  Typically, we do NOT include a "Moderator's Edit - Title changed for more info"...

That is why it was done.  If it doesn't work.  Shoot me a PM of what you want it to be.  No additional charges...included FREE in your membership.  LOL..

Keep reading the posts.  I learn things each time.   Hope my response to that in the next post gets merged.  The HW50C is on the input side.  As IS the WatchDog..will comment

 

[JDCrow]

3 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Yes, NOT INTO "DRAMA".  Staff can edit the title to clarify or add more information.  That helps, we have been told, get better responses.  Typically, we do NOT include a "Moderator's Edit - Title changed for more info"...

That is why it was done.  If it doesn't work.  Shoot me a PM of what you want it to be.  No additional charges...included FREE in your membership.  LOL..

Keep reading the posts.  I learn things each time.   Hope my response to that in the next post gets merged.  The HW50C is on the input side.  As IS the WatchDog..will comment

 

All good, it just didn’t sound like me.

I don’t get shook about things like I used to.

 

[Tom Cherry]

57 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Power should be zero whenever switching.  Generator, shore, inverter . . . . if you read the manual it says to switch off individual items before turning on / off the power source.  Until I read that I used to switch my generator in / out as needed for roof AC while going down the road.  NO MORE! 

- bob

Curious to your comment.  The WatchDog is on the INPUT side.  Therefore, it is NOT impacted....unless the contacts were welded... when the Genny comes one.

NOW...as to the Genny.  YES....and also with SHORE... I always TURN OFF (I use the MODE and NOT the switch as folks report frequent failures of the bottom switch) the AC system for ALL zones.  Then, I turn ON the AC (or DW does), after we are hooked up.  In the Dometic's there is a 120 Second (memory of exact number).  That PREVENTS causing damage to the Genny.

When we drive and use the Genny...I turn it on and let it run for maybe 5 minutes.  Then she scurries back and turns on both or a single zone.  IF we decide we do NOT need the Dometic units...then she goes back...TURNS OFF (MODE Method) all units.  I WAIT 5 minutes for the Genny to cool off.  I NEVER run the Aquahot when we are driving...but IF I needed it, it would be DIESEL.

That works.  I learned the HARD WAY.  I was breaking camp.  It was HOT.  I either cut on the Genny as I walked by or when I killed power, I then turned on the Genny.  Probably had the Genny ON, but it had NOT warmed up for 5 minutes....and then I switched OFF the Breaker.  We had NOT turned off the AC.  The Genny got a FULL load surge and rebelled.  Fortunately, no damage...but it sure put us in TIMEOUT for maybe half an hour.  I restarted it down the road...and then PRAYED and the First AC kicked in and all was well.  That was at least 8 years ago.  ALL FINE.

So, yes...  Using the Generator Switch to cycle on the AC's is a NO NO...

[96 EVO]

My generator get's 105 seconds to prepare to go to work!

15 sec for the ATS to switch to gen power, and the 90 sec delay before the first heat pump compressor engages 😉!

BTW..... That's 99 seconds longer than my next door neighbor gives her Ford Fiesta engine 🤣! 

Edited August 15, 2023 by 96 EVO

[TomV48]

On 8/14/2023 at 1:52 PM, JDCrow said:

I understand what you saying, but forgive my ignorance in asking how the watchdog (circuit protection) would read no Amps coming in when it’s before the ATS? 
 

 the out of whack charging from DC/DC charger and Genny running at same time. 

If there is voltage getting to the WATCHDOG, IT SHOULD SHOW that VOLTAGE.   BUT,  if the coach is not  taking any of that voltage, then there will be 0 Zero amps.  Because nothing is flowing through.   They say, voltage is the water pressure and amperage is how much water is flowing down the hose.   So either, one of the output connections from the WatchDog  has an open connections , or intermittent connection,  OR some where in or out of the transfer switch is the culprit.    Of course, there might be a similar , intermittent connection or open circuit inside the transfer switch.  That could be repairable by you, or maybe not.  I would first open it up and look for arcing, or any other sign of heat damage.  Live and learn.  In a pinch, with bad looking contactor points,  I might be tempted as a temporary fix only, to sand on any  bad looking contactor points, the same way you would clean ignition points in an older style distributor.  I remember one car in a convoy of families going camping back in the 50's stalled/fouled out on a bad grade up to the mountains. My dad cleaned their points with my mom's Emory board (disposable nail file for you youngsters) and then set the gap with a match book cover.  Evidently match book covers were 15 or 16 thousandths.   That family car kept up the rest of the trip.

Good luck sir.  

Edited August 16, 2023 by TomV48

[JDCrow]

2 minutes ago, TomV48 said:

If there is voltage getting to the WATCHDOG, IT SHOULD SHOW that VOLTAGE.   BUT,  if the coach is not  taking any of that voltage, then there will be 0 Zero amps.  Because nothing is flowing through.   They say, voltage is the water pressure and amperage is how much water is flowing down the hose.   So either one of the output connections from the WD is and open connections , or intermittent connection,  OR some where in or out of the transfer switch is the culprit.    Of course, there might be a similar , intermittent connection or open circuit inside the transfer switch.  That could be repairable by you, or maybe not.  I would first open it up and look for arcing, or any other sign of heat damage.  Live and learn.  Good luck sir.

Yeah there is always voltage shown on the watchdog, no matter what’s going on. The coach goes dead, it shows voltage but no amps, then comes “back to life” and the amps are back up showing. 
 

I’ll tear into the ATS and see what’s loose or nasty. 
 

I appreciate your insight and help