House batteries not charging while driving?

[Greg Coffey]

I have just replaced my 8 - 6 volt house batteries with sealed gel batteries. I have also just added a solar panel on top. Previously to doing this my house batteries would not charge while driving and I asked the shop that installed my new batteries and installed my solar panel to isolate my problem, however, they said i would need to go to a heavy duty shop for troubleshooting and get the proper parts as their supplier does not carry a large enough isolator. Can someone please help me with this about the isolator and what I might need?

2005 Monaco Dynasty 

400 cummins isl

[jacwjames]

Look at the Bluesea MLACR, this is an automatic charging relay, ties both banks together whenever there is a charging source.

I installed on a couple years ago.  I removed the BIRD, Lambert, and isolation relay and installed the bluesea in the isolation relay space,  simple install

[MyronTruex]

Someone here will know if it is supposed to charge them via factory setup. If not, and even if so, the Bluesea seems to be the go to recommendation.

If you can post pictures of the battery compartment and any electrical compartments nearby as well as any below the driver in an outside compartment it will take loads of time off researching via schematics. A glance at your setup should help those that will be along shortly. 

[Greg Coffey]

Thanks for the info, I can't send pics at this time as I am in Finland. I will be back in Canada in a week or 2 and will send pics if I can. The BlueSea is a good start and I will research further.

[Tom Cherry]

9 hours ago, Greg Coffey said:

I have just replaced my 8 - 6 volt house batteries with sealed gel batteries. I have also just added a solar panel on top. Previously to doing this my house batteries would not charge while driving and I asked the shop that installed my new batteries and installed my solar panel to isolate my problem, however, they said i would need to go to a heavy duty shop for troubleshooting and get the proper parts as their supplier does not carry a large enough isolator. Can someone please help me with this about the isolator and what I might need?

2005 Monaco Dynasty 

400 cummins isl

Here's the skinny.  I started this earlier buy had to run a LONG errand.  Your MH has a BIRD (BiDirectional) charging system.  See the print below.  I wanted to verify that before I posted.  The way it WORKS..  You have the Big Boy (largest Solenoid in the Rear Run Bay or where all the "electric stuff" is.  That Big Boy does TWO things.  First, it is supposed to allow you to charge EITHER (BOTH) sets or banks of batteries when you are on SHORE (Genny as well) or Engine running.  It is controlled by a Board in the rear.  If you ready your manual, you will see a photo of this area.  I am enclosing a print of it from the 2005 Wiring Diagrams.  I urge you to download the following file as anytime you have someone work on it, they need these.  YOU MANY already have them in your manual, but manuals have a BAD habit of disappearing.  It is ALSO easier to give a tech an electronic copy than for him to be fritzing around and finding the prints. 

SO, follow along.  In the print below (38041334...), the Big Boy is in the center.  I has TWO large cables connected to it and two small ones.  The ones on the bottom side are hard to see.  That is a 200 Amp Solenoid.  It has TWO purposes and BOTH are controlled by the R6 Board on the right.  The first is to be used as a BOOST.  When you push down and hold (it is spring loaded) the Battery Boost switch, then that solenoid goes CLUNKL and closes and it starts to heat up.  The OTHER thing that the R6 board does is to ALLOW FOR BIRD (both Ways) charging.  So, driving....Alternator is putting out current (or Voltage if you like).  That charges the CHASSIS.  When the Generator or Shore is ON, the Inverter charges the House.  BUT, if the OTHER set needs charging, then that Solenoid is energized.  IF you hold down the BOOST Switch up front for more than say 30 seconds, you are then in the DANGER zone.  That Switch feeds PURE 12 VDC (more likely 13 - 14 if charging by the Alternator of the House.  That will start to BURN UP the coil.  It is NOT rated for full (12 - 14) VDC....for more than say 30 seconds.  Some folks don't know this and have damaged the Big Boy by listening to some "saw it on the NET" advice.  

NOW....  BUT, you say....how do it CHARGE BOTH (Closed) sets of Batteries without burning up?  Simple, the R6 Board sends out a PULSED 12 - 14 VDC.  I do NOT know how many PULSES per second....an Oscilliscope might tell...but it cycles ON and OFF maybe 50 times per second.  OK....1000 (milliseconds) divided by 50 equals 20 Milliseconds per PULSE.  Remember it OPENS and CLOSES or think about flicking a light switch ON and OFF 50 times per second.  NOW...you need to UNDERSTAND what PULSE WIDTH or DURATION is.  If there is a 20 MILLISECOND pulse...and the ON time is say 13 Millisecond and the OFF time is 7 seconds...then if you put a DVOM on the two small terminals, you would "read" around 8 VDC (or about 1/3 less than the 12 - 14 Second PURE, ON AT ALL TIMES, DC.  So, when the R6 board is regulating or sending out a PULSED signal to keep the Big Boy Energized....that reduced (effectively) voltage is lower.  The FIRST pulse when the R6 says....LETS CHARGE BOTH is a PURE 12 - 14 VDC signal...say for a full second.  That ENSURES that the Big Boy is locked in or energized....then almost immediatly, the signal drops back to the PULSED (1/3 OFF and 2/3 ON) so the Big Boy can run ALL DAY or night or 24/7 and NOT be damaged.  When the PULSED signal is used....the Big Boy starts to CHATTER or HUM...Loudly.  It gets HOT to the touch (maybe 140 DF) but it is quite content to run that way.  Thus you get Charging from one side to the other...as the Contacts (BIG ONES) inside are closed..

NOW....here is what you need to test...  Have someone PUSH the BOOST Switch.  Put your hand on the Big BOY...Did you feel it CLOSE or CLUNK.  That means the boost switch and the R6 Board WORK OK.   THEN you have to take the NEXT STEP.  Turn ON your headlights for maybe 10 minutes or even 5.  You SHOULD be plugged in to Shore or your Genny ON.  You should FEEL (lightly touch) the metal can.  If it is chattering or humming and is HOT, it be WORKING.  It SHOULD be trying to close to let the Invterter CHARGE the Chassis as they are being drained.  NO HUM...or HEAT.  Coil is shot.  Nothing can fix that...

BUT, if it HUMS and heats UP...then you need to measure across the LARGE Terminals (Studs).  Put your DVOM into DC voltage.  Put the probes on each of the TWO big studs.  You should SEE ZERO or maybe Less than 0.05 (not 5/10th) VDC.  Use the Ohm setting and do the same.  If there is an OPEN circuit...the Big BOY (assuming it is humming and getting hot, needs to have the Contacts cleaned.  A simple job and there is a HOW to in the files plus a bunch on YouTUbe.  Many folks do that without being an electrical engineering graduate.

NOW...if all that fails and you DO NOT heat the humming nor the coil is getting HOT, then you have to carefully loosen all the bolts and take it partially out.  You THEN put an Alligator Lead to the small terminal hidden on the bottom.  Just lay the Big Boy back in place.  Do the Headlight DRILL again....if you read around 8 VDC when you measure from the Alligator Clip (attached to the bottom small terminal) and the TOP small one....the BOARD (R6) is working...

HERES the bad news.  Those boards are NOT in production anymore and the used ones are usually broken.  There are a few folks here that can, on occasion, fix them...and it is an ART and they have special equipment.  The one vendor that "Supposedly" could fix them has a spotty track record and they don't really know HOW to remove the defective chip and put on another one.

You have to find a REAL tech with a background in Monaco and Intellitec (the vendor that makes the Big Boy as well as made the R6 and a HOST of other boards all in the front and rear of your MH) system.  They need to properly diagnose (like I described) above...and THEN, if they say...I can get it fixed...pay with a credit card and be prepared to dispute the charges as it ain't gonna work...or the likelyhood is low....THAT IS A FACT.

NOW, there are MANY options.  I wrote this up in at least TWO topics....both are below the prints.. READ IT...

Bottom LINE...you can INSTALL, if the R6 Board is Dead...a Blue Seas ML-ACR.  They run a bit under $400.  Fairly simple and many have done it.  The downside....  You do NOT have enough "wires" running from the BOOST Switch for it to work.  If you get the simple one or the basic Model...without the REMOTE, it comes with a ON, OFF and AUTO switch on it.  If you EVER need to use the boost switch...you just open the door, walk back and open the RRB and turn the switch to ON.  The batteries are connected.... Then after that need is passed...you switch it back to AUTO and it charges BOTH Banks, but does NOT charge when one set of batteries is acting funky or are weak, so you don't run down a good set (like pouring money in a hole in the water).

NOW, if you decide to go "BIG TIME" and get the Remote....then you can do it simple or complex.  Simple is to only have the Boost Switch up front working.  You have to rewire the switch so that the SIGNAL is 12 VDC (Positive).  The switch is now a GROUND (momentary ON) switch.  Then the Boost Switch will close the ML-ACR and you have boost.  The ML-ACR is rated for 350 amps vs the Big Boy for 200 A.  So...that is is.  BUT, if you want all the bells and whistles, you have to put at least 3 wires or 5 to be safe and have a spare or two) from the FRONT to the REAR...and then you can mount the remote up front.

There are OTHER things, that folks do...and maybe one or two that I would....but let's not get into that.

You need to TEST your system.  HOPEFULLY, Board R6 works....and if so, and the Big Boy can't be cleaned or someone cooked the COIL, you replace it.  BUT, if Board R6 is toast and no one chimes in to assist and fix offline....then put in the SIMPLE ML-ACR and get a little exercise when you need a boost....

Your call...

 

38031334 Rear Run Box - ALL Dynasty & Up Big Boy Information.pdf

[Cubflyer]

One thing that I learned about my Blue Seas ML-ACR (that I personally love) is never let it connect (lock it out) when operating more than one charging source, do not operate it in 'Auto' for example, if you run your genny (powering the inverter/charger) and your engine (alternator charging).  I did that one time, and my 'ALT' warning light started lighting up, so I 'isolated' (locked it out) the ML-ACR and the light went away...  

In a nut shell... I operate the ML-ACR in 'Auto' unless I run the genny while we drive so we can use the roof air conditioner/s.... in that case switch it to 'Off'.  I have never put it in 'On' (or boost) to use both batteries for starting..... yet! 

I can see where it might be possible to use it in a situation where your engine alternator has failed, you could use the genny and inverter/charger to charge the chassis batteries, as long as there is not a short in the alternator output cable...... maybe..

[Greg Coffey]

My new ML ACR has the 2 large terminals and 6 smaller wires. My Big Boy had the 2 big terminals and 2 smaller ones where 2 green wires hooked to. 

How do I hook up the ML ACR with all these wires? 

Help please.

Thanks

My new ML ACR has the 2 large terminals and 6 smaller wires. My Big Boy had the 2 big terminals and 2 smaller ones where 2 green wires hooked to. 

How do I hook up the ML ACR with all these wires? 

Help please.

Thanks

After cleaning the Big Boy, I have no power to the ignition. Everything else works, nothing to the starter. 

[Greg Coffey]

Moderator EDIT,

Greg, it is against forum rules to post or have two topics on the same subject.  The one you just posted is now merged with the one you started originally.  Please do not violate that rule again, otherwise you will be moderated.

I just posted an answer to your question before realizing you were double posting.  Basically, the same  information that was posted previously.  It discourages members from assisting when you double post or don’t follow the past recommendations.

Thanks for understanding why this rule exists.

End of EDIT.

My new relay has 6 smaller wires and the Big Boy had 2 smaller terminals for 2 green wires. Has anyone hooked this up and how please.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Tom Cherry
Double posted same request for assistance

[Tom Cherry]

20 minutes ago, Greg Coffey said:

My new relay has 6 smaller wires and the Big Boy had 2 smaller terminals for 2 green wires. Has anyone hooked this up and how please.

You need to read the instructions.  Your ML-ACR will not work with your boost (up front switch) as on the Dynasty’s, the signal, at least on the 06 and above was a GROUND signal.  The ML-ACR would require a Positive signal.  You need to pull the prints and understand.  You do NOT use the two control wires from the PCB that controlled the Intellitec Big Boy.  Most people are considering purchasing the ML-ACR without the “remote”.  If you elect to use the remote, assuming you purchased it, you need to run a new bundle of wires all the way to the front.

However, a Blue Seas ML-ACR, can be manually operated for boost by just walking back to the RRBand putting it in Manual.  Then after the need for boost is passed, you switch it back to Auto and it will work just fine.

If you REALLY think you need a BOOST switch, then, you have to rewire the existing Boost switch.  You first locate the signal wire from the front to the rear Big Boy control board.  You disconnect that wire from the board.  Test it.  The wire should send a GROUND signal.  Then you rewire the front switch to deliver a POSITIVE 12 VDC.  That can be used to “energize” and give you a remote Boost Switch.

The instructions and schematic came with it.  If this is confusing, call Blue Seas.  Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES do not use or try to hook up the ML-ACR with the two control wires from the Intellitec PCB. That board is basically useless….but verify.

The only two cable connections are the studs.  Then you follow the instructions for the remote switch.  Then, after you understand how that works, you should be able to convert your Boost wire from Ground to Positive and hook it up.  Or NOT.

[Greg Coffey]

Thank you for your reply. I took the Big Boy off and cleaned it, now I can't start my engine, no power to the starter. Everything else works, generator, dash lights, glow plugs light,, everything except when I go to start after the wait to start light goes out. Is their anyway I can get power to my starter with the new relay just so I can get out of Canada and the cold weather coming. 

[jacwjames]

If you want to keep it simple you need to only use the red wire and the yellow wire to the dash and then you have to find and ign ground a power source.   The rest of the wires are for isolation purposes so the Bluesea won't connect under certain conditions.  I did not use these.

I just put a Bluesea MLACR in the van I converted for my wife to haul dogs and other stuff.  I pulled a wire from the Bluesea to the dash area.  I found a grounding location on the dash.  I fount a ign power source under the dash.  I then used the red and yellow wire that I pulled and had to make a small jumper wire. 

On my coach I did pull a group of 5 wires but only needed one, the rest our spares.  I popped out the old boost switch and used that location.  I found a ground wire and then I could use the original wire from the boost switch.  The rest of the wiring consist of jumper wires to make the lights to work. 

Luckily both time I put one of these in I screwed up the wiring and when I connected it both lights on the toggle switch blinked on off repeatedly.  So I had to go back to the wiring diagram and fix my screw up.   I guess the ML ACR is smarter then me and protected itself. 

 

 

Bluesea ML-ACRs wiring diagram.pdf

Edited October 20, 2023 by jacwjames

[Tom Cherry]

10 minutes ago, Greg Coffey said:

Thank you for your reply. I took the Big Boy off and cleaned it, now I can't start my engine, no power to the starter. Everything else works, generator, dash lights, glow plugs light,, everything except when I go to start after the wait to start light goes out. Is their anyway I can get power to my starter with the new relay just so I can get out of Canada and the cold weather coming. 

Somewhere you have a wiring issue.  There are TWO POSITIVE cables to the Chassis.  One runs directly to the starter….no fuse….the other runs directly to the chassis battery bus.  There is also a jumper that runs from the positive to the other positive on the two chassis….as well as negative to negative.  OF COURSE, there is a NEGATIVE cable….usually only one….but sometimes two. There is a Negative Jumper betWeen the two Chassis batteries….as there is a Positive….Removing the Big Boy would NOT involve the cabling.  Look at your prints. The one cable running from the Chassis battery to the starter does NOT go through the battery cut off switch.  Only the cable from the chassis battery to the chassis buss goes through that switch.

You may have removed the battery cables and not understood the cabling and not hooked the chassis back up.  Look at your prints.  Post a picture of your chassis batteries and the cabling.  If you did NOT put BOTH the Positive and Negative jumpers back in place…..then, yes….that could happen 

[Greg Coffey]

Thanks for the information Tom,, much appreciated. Its a little confusing as I only unhooked the Big Boy. The connections on both large terminals and the 2 green wires on the smaller terminals. I touched nothing else. When I pulled my Big Boy apart,, it was a mess. It looked as if it had lots of heat as some plastic pieces were melted. Apiece that fits around everything. 
it was still ok enough to seal the outer edge. Also both large terminals have copper strips. I will need to make up some jumpers and mount the AL MCR elsewhere. Before the ML ACR is installed I will have another look at the BIG BOY and try to figure out why i have no power to start. 

[Tom Cherry]

18 minutes ago, Greg Coffey said:

Thanks for the information Tom,, much appreciated. Its a little confusing as I only unhooked the Big Boy. The connections on both large terminals and the 2 green wires on the smaller terminals. I touched nothing else. When I pulled my Big Boy apart,, it was a mess. It looked as if it had lots of heat as some plastic pieces were melted. Apiece that fits around everything. 
it was still ok enough to seal the outer edge. Also both large terminals have copper strips. I will need to make up some jumpers and mount the AL MCR elsewhere. Before the ML ACR is installed I will have another look at the BIG BOY and try to figure out why i have no power to start. 

At the risk of repeating and not talking down to you.  The BIG BOY has NOTHING to do nor is it connected to the Starter.  When you say NO POWER to the starter, do you mean that it won't start....or that there is NO 12 VDC to the large cable on the starter solenoid???.  Look at the Battery Box.  Look at the Chassis. I just pulled the print.  There are TWO cables.  One goes to the Alternator.  The other goes to the Chassis Disconnect Switch.  BUT, look carefully.  The Chassis Disconnect Switch is being used as a JUNCTION BOX or Stud.  Power goes from the Chassis to the post on the switch.  There is THEN a line going back directly to the Solenoid.  The NEGATIVE goes directly to the Negative of the starter.  Which is also then grounded. 

The 4/0 Ga wire on the TOP of the switch is the switched SIDE.  It goes to the rear run bay.  SO, there is a DIRECT CONNECTION....NOT SWITCHED from the Positive to the Switch stud to the Solenoid on the Starter....then the Solenoid closes and cranks the Starter.  SO, moving or messing with the BIg boy, unless you got in to the switch and did some "poking" had NO impact on the "will not start".  

The Big Boy is on the "OTHER SIDE" or is inside the RRB.  It ONLY Connects, via the Intellitec Board, the two banks. It has NO IMPACT or is NOT in the Starting circuit....

I don't know what you may have done, other than cleaning or maybe bumped or disturbed....like a harness.  Monaco Harnesses are extremely fragile.  We have had folks go poking around and bumped a main harness and the contacts between critical circuits were lost.  They spent days trying to chase it down. Turns out.  They had inadvertently moved a harness that had two mating (maybe military style) connectors.  BARELY....but just enough.  SO....  Define WILL NOT START or NO POWER.  Get under the engine and measure the voltage on the large stud on the Solenoid.  If you have 12 VDC there....then it should start.  And THEN you have a Starter Solenoid or Control issue.

There may (is) a REMOTE Starter switch....don't know.  Read your manual.  If you BUMPED it....to REMOTE...then that disables the KEY upfront.  You use the REMOVE start back there.  Many people have bumped this and some had to be towed...  The switch is listed or discussed in your manual as is the location.

NOW....if you do NOT have 12 VDC on the Starter STUD....then that cable is NOT hooked properly from the chassis battery....so work you way back.  First to the stud with 2 cables on the chassis disconnect switch....and then to the battery.  BIG BOY ain't in this neighborhood....don't blame him.  LOL

 

38031334 Rear Run Box - ALL 2005 Dynasty & Up Big Boy Information.pdf 2005 Dynasty High Current Drawing.pdf

[Greg Coffey]

After all the information you have gave me I would like to think I am a little smarter this evening however,, lol

I do have a remote start in that electrical box. I am hoping I accidentally hit the switch and disabled the key switch up front. I will be checking that first thing in the morning. I will let you know how I make out.

[jimc99999]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:46 PM, Cubflyer said:

One thing that I learned about my Blue Seas ML-ACR (that I personally love) is never let it connect (lock it out) when operating more than one charging source, do not operate it in 'Auto' for example, if you run your genny (powering the inverter/charger) and your engine (alternator charging).  I did that one time, and my 'ALT' warning light started lighting up, so I 'isolated' (locked it out) the ML-ACR and the light went away...  

I run my generator while driving, with the ML-ACR on auto (so both banks connected) and the alternator doesn't seem to have any problem with that. My DUVAC alternator, trickle charger, and boost solenoid were both failing, so I replaced the alternator with a modern self-exciting version and the trickle charger, boost solenoid, and battery isolator were replaced with the ML-ACR.

My ALT warning light does come on occasionally, so I know it still works. The self-exciting alternator doesn't self-excite until the engine hits around 800 rpm, so sometimes it doesn't go high enough on startup to get the alternator going. When that happens, the ALT light comes on, as it should. 

If I had more modern electronics I'd probably hook up the starter isolation circuit but so far that hasn't been necessary either.

[Greg Coffey]

After all the information and time that you have all spent here TRYING to help me out being electrically illiterate, Thank you very much. I appreciate everything. Tom, Thanks for slowing me down and telling me this is no plug and play,,, I could have had some more issues than I wanted. 

The problem was, I hit the rear switch, closing off ignition on the dash.

[Tom Cherry]

8 minutes ago, Greg Coffey said:

After all the information and time that you have all spent here TRYING to help me out being electrically illiterate, Thank you very much. I appreciate everything. Tom, Thanks for slowing me down and telling me this is no plug and play,,, I could have had some more issues than I wanted. 

The problem was, I hit the rear switch, closing off ignition on the dash.

You are welcome….now, some folks DO “rearrange wires and cables” and are not exactly sure what all they are doing.  BUT, if you only worked on the Big Boy, no way you impacted the Chassis cables to the starter via the disconnect switch post, used as a junction point.

Bumping the remote switch, rarely used, has caused a lot of headaches and unnecessary trouble shooting as well as “not needed” towing…