Aquahot 600 electric side wont heat

[Mike Barrett]

2008 Signature (Konsberg)

Desiel works fine electric wont turn on.  Plugged into 50 amp shore power.  Low temp cutoff light dimly lit in the bay.  Did hit the reset button

Thoughts?

[Tom Cherry]

58 minutes ago, Mike Barrett said:

2008 Signature (Konsberg)

Desiel works fine electric wont turn on.  Plugged into 50 amp shore power.  Low temp cutoff light dimly lit in the bay.  Did hit the reset button

Thoughts?

Clarification needed...probably me.  When you said you hit the reset button, are you referring to the recessed "RESET" that you use a paper clip to reset the Aquahot? That is when there is a low voltage and once you have around 12.0 or so VDC, that resets the system.

Please read your Owner's manual. See page 104 for the explanation of the Diesel and two electric heaters.  IF, and this is a "I THINK...which usually means I WRONG" you have the diesel ON and turn on the Electric, then the diesel may be keeping the electric off.  I have a "manual" system with indicator lights....so I don't know how the Intellitec MPX interacts with the Aquahot and whether the lights come on and off.  

 I also downloaded and attached the Service Manual

Save the Manual to your "PC"....then open using an Adobe Reader.  There is a Find text or tools  "Magnifying Glass" icon in the upper right.  Click on it.  Put in this search term   low temp cutoff .    You will get 10 hits or references in the manual.  Read each one.  That explains the functions of this light.  See page 48.  

The Low Temp Cutoff thermostat does not function on the
Aqua-Hot 600 series. Therefore the Low-Temp Cutoff thermostat
has been bypassed with the bottom jumper pin, on the
Electronic Controller, and therefore the Low Temp Cutoff
Status light will always be illuminated

When you say "Won't Turn ON"?, do you mean that the electric switch is not illuminated? See page 104 of your manual.  I BELIEVE that your Aquahot is controlled by the Intellitec MPX system...since it is a "House" function.  That is NOT related to or controlled by the K/CCM system.

@Frank McElroy & @pwhittle are the Intellitec MPX Guru's.  After you read both manual on the electric, then maybe it will explain it.  My take is that if you mean that the Intellitec MPX Lighted key pad switches are "Not Lighting", then that may be a function of the Intellitec MPX and not the Aquahot.  Have you used this before and it worked or is this your first attempt at running the system?

One of them may chime in and explain how the MPX works, with regards to the Aquahot and how the lights work..  BUT, reading the basics in your owner's manual as well as also having the Aquahot manual and reading there is a good thing to do....

AHE-600-D01_AHE-675-D01_Service_Manual_Rev_A.pdf

[Mike Barrett]

Thanks for the info and manual.  

Both electric heating status and electric element status lights are dark.

Have used electric many times and on this trip, it has suddenly  stopped working.   Tried the diesel and wala it worked.   Would like to get the electric workimg again.  

I was wondering if there is a fuse somewhere.  It seemed related to when I turned off the house batteries to swap them out.  

Edited November 18, 2023 by Mike Barrett

[Tom Cherry]

If the lights came on when you used it... and stayed on...  Then it is not like the manual switches...and the lights are a function of the MPX key pad.

If Frank doesn't chime in and you have NOT bypassed your Salesman's switch.  Kill the 120 VAC.  Then turn OFF the Salesman switch.  That kills the power to the Intellitec MPX.  Wait (I choose 10 minutes...others say no as long) and THEN turn back on the Salesman switch.  The reboots or restarts the MPX CPU and all the (5 or maybe 6) MPX Output modules.

SO, you have a CLEAN, restarted system.  If that doesn't fix the "Won't Turn ON" issue that you need some help to narrow it down to the MPX or the Aquahot.  My suspicion IS the MPX. NOW..  if you look at the prints or perhaps the "legend" or layout in the MPX area (Closet?), there will be a print or guide and you can trace the electric ON (both low and high) to a particular MPX Intellitec module.  There IS a 10 amp fuse on every circuit.  Also a way to test (memory) as to if the Green Light comes on.  COULD be the fuse for one of the circuits....but your prints will have to tell you...

BUT, there may be a FEEDBACK indicator from the Intellitec.  My feeling NOT.  IF you read the Aquahot manual, it will tell you whether the ON circuit for the Low and High is a "contact" closure or a 12 VDC input.  If so, you disconnect the control wires from those two circuit terminals and jumper (contact closure) or apply 12 VDC.

BUT, reset the MPX first.  Look at the modules....then go to the Aquahot.

Folks may chime in with the MPX controlled Aquahot and help.

Here are the PRINTS for your system.  The Aquahot input as well as the MPX output to Aquahot are in there.  Time to start learning and reading....unfortunately...

Keep this...you're gonna need these...

 

[Frank McElroy]

6 hours ago, Mike Barrett said:

2008 Signature (Konsberg)

Desiel works fine electric wont turn on.  Plugged into 50 amp shore power.  Low temp cutoff light dimly lit in the bay.  Did hit the reset button

Thoughts?

When you turn on Aquahot Diesel does the diesel keypad indicator light come on?

Assuming the diesel keypad light comes on and assuming that you already rebooted the Intellitec CPU by shutting off the batteries of by using the salesman switch (if not already bypassed), then look at the led lights on multiplex module C and see if the AH 110 lights come on.  Note that the AH 110 must be on before AH Hi will work.  If the correct LEDs on module C don't come on, check the appropriate fuse on that module.

[Mike Barrett]

Desiel light comes on, no joy on the salesman switch.  fuses look good but lights not on.  

Next?

 

 

On 7/29/2023 at 9:50 PM, dl_racing427 said:

Agreed.

Mike, was that measurement with the LED installed?

Not sure I am following LED question.  

Did the batter cut off by the front door, and flipped the brekaer on the pedestal.   No joy.

 

Will try the batter disconnects at the battery and the pedestal.   Will let everyone know

[Mike Barrett]

No joy on main battery discomnect and pedestsld disconnect.

[Frank McElroy]

When you shut off the battery disconnect switches did all the interior lights go off?  The ceiling lights turning off means the power was disconnected to the cpu so it would reboot when disconnect switches were turned back on.

If the interior lights did go out when you shut off the battery disconnect switches, which would reboot the CPU, then very likely you have a bad keypad.

[Mike Barrett]

And now where to get anew keypad...

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Mike Barrett said:

And now where to get anew keypad...

Frank or Paul will be the best lead.  They keep up or sort of monitor eBay, I think, for used ones. The keypads are programmed specifically for each function.  They both can do that.  The labels are removable and can be pulled out of the original switch.  

[Frank McElroy]

Send @pwhittle    a PM and see if he has a working keypad to program for you.  He also has spare keypad switch buttons he can solder on the board if that's your problem.  Right now I'm working on repairing failed modules but don't now have a working spare one.

If Paul doesn't have a spare module, you could try a salvage yard for any 4 or 6 button module and then either Paul or I could reprogram it for you.

Your last, most expensive, option is to contact M&M.  They have done keypad repairs but it won't be cheap.

[Paul J A]

Did you try turning the --2-- 20 AMP 110V breakers off, do a pause, then turn on, that provide power to the --2-- AQ heating elements??  I know it's not the 12v side of it all.

[Frank McElroy]

The indicator light on the Intellitec keypad only indicates that the CPU received a signal from the keypad that the Aquahot 110 keypad was pressed.  It does not indicate that module C was turned on to energize the heater relay nor does it indicate that the heater has actually turned on.  That's why not seeing the keypad indicator light turn ON most likely means a problem with the keypad.  It could also be a problem with the CPU but that would be extremely rare.

[Mike Barrett]

22 hours ago, Paul J A said:

Did you try turning the --2-- 20 AMP 110V breakers off, do a pause, then turn on, that provide power to the --2-- AQ heating elements??  I know it's not the 12v side of it all.

I believe so, turned off the breakers, waited...  turned off all the batteries at the main cut off, flipped the breaker off on the pedestal ... waited...  Tried all the electrical resets I could think of. 

18 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

The indicator light on the Intellitec keypad only indicates that the CPU received a signal from the keypad that the Aquahot 110 keypad was pressed.  It does not indicate that module C was turned on to energize the heater relay nor does it indicate that the heater has actually turned on.  That's why not seeing the keypad indicator light turn ON most likely means a problem with the keypad.  It could also be a problem with the CPU but that would be extremely rare.

Thanks Frank.  very helpful.

[pwhittle]

Mike sent me his keypad.

I read the program off it and saved it for later.

Then I programmed in my test switch panel config and tested each switch. No Problem Found.

I reviewed the original program, and the key for Aquahot 110V was programmed to send the wrong code compared to the wiring diagrams. I have reprogrammed the switch to send the correct code to the CPU, and it is on its way back to Mike. I also prgramssed a spare switch on the panel for the same function, so Mike has a backup key if that same one loses the correct code.

I have not seen this issue before, but expect this will fix it.

Paul

[96 EVO]

So, that keypad has never been able to turn on AH 110V?

{edit} Just read post #3. Apparently it did at one point.

Edited November 25, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Mike Barrett]

4 hours ago, pwhittle said:

Mike sent me his keypad.

I read the program off it and saved it for later.

Then I programmed in my test switch panel config and tested each switch. No Problem Found.

I reviewed the original program, and the key for Aquahot 110V was programmed to send the wrong code compared to the wiring diagrams. I have reprogrammed the switch to send the correct code to the CPU, and it is on its way back to Mike. I also prgramssed a spare switch on the panel for the same function, so Mike has a backup key if that same one loses the correct code.

I have not seen this issue before, but expect this will fix it.

Paul

Real mystery why it somehow 'reprogrammed' itself.   Thanks for your help Paul.   Have great trip.

[96 EVO]

1 minute ago, Mike Barrett said:

Real mystery why it somehow 'reprogrammed' itself.   Thanks for your help Paul.   Have great trip.

Yeah, that's not good!

Shouldn't need to be a computer programmer to own an RV 🤔!

[Guest Ray Davis]

3 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Shouldn't need to be a computer programmer to own an RV 🤔!

Might help to know one though.   Maybe AI will start doing all that stuff for us.  👍

[96 EVO]

Ray, I'm beginning to think I should have bought a coach of your vintage!

Not you yourself...... your coach 😁! 

[pwhittle]

I worked on another keypad today where the programming for one key position was not what it was supposed to be.

It is easy to fix once diagnosed, but something for us to keep in mind when troubleshooting.

Paul

[Paul J A]

Just wondering if there was power at the 110v Breakers for the --2-- electric elements.  Yah never know where the gremlin resides.

[Mike Barrett]

Yep.   I am thinking it might be some electric 12v gremlin as the water pump button in the 1/2 lav won't work/ light up but the kitchen will.

[Tom Cherry]

13 minutes ago, Mike Barrett said:

Yep.   I am thinking it might be some electric 12v gremlin as the water pump button in the 1/2 lav won't work/ light up but the kitchen will.

Probably so.  Some of the switches will fail on a keypad.  I had one that failed in a strange way.  It would mysteriously come on and stay on….then I had to shut off…. 

@Frank McElroy swapped it out and reprogrammed the new one.  I don’t know if he worked on the circuit board and was able to “fix” the TACTILE failure….which is what many call a defective individual button or switch on a key pad where everything else is working.  Maybe @pwhittle can also work magic and make the one switch button functional again.  That button sends out the same Alpha/Numeric code signal as ALL the other pump switches do….whatever the Alpha label of the Intellitec module (output) that controls the pump circuit as well as the numeric circuit number for it.  So, if it is circuit 7, for the pump, on module F, all that  switch sends out, in Hexadecimal, I think, is F7.  So all the keypads with a pump switch send an F7 code or signal and that toggles ON or OFF the pump.

.If you turn off the Salesman switch or Battery switch at the door….wait maybe 30 minutes and whilst waiting, remove the switch….and reseat the connector….then also turn off, at the fixture, or remove the fuses from the Fluorescent light fixtures in the area…..you have removed all external gremlins and drained the ones from the MPX.  Now turn it back on.  

If the switch is OK….use it for a few days.  THEN reinstall the MPX fuses for the fluorescent fixtures or turn them ON….one at a time.  If the issue pops up…a NOISY or gremlin haunted ballast. Switch to LED on that one or all.