2006 45' Signature Batteries won't charge

[Ambush]

It was parked, plugged in to shore power 50 amp.  Went to start it, run everything, and the batteries were dead.  Replaced all batteries (6) as they were 3.5 years old.  Since then, 2 months have passed.  Batteries are dead.  Replaced the big boy relay.  I reset the converter / inverter but it trips out after several hours.

I have an error code on the magnum energy "internal fault - 1".

Im in Jacksonville Florida.  Is there a great mobile electrical mechanic?

Suggestions please!

[vito.a]

Are you sure you reconnected all the batteries correctly?  Double check the connections and compare to the picture you took prior to swapping.  

Also, were you careful to reconnect the Intellitec Big Boy relay correctly?

I'd attach an external battery charger to the batteries until you get it sorted out.  you are risking ruining your new batteries.  

 

[Ambush]

Yes, verifed battery connections with prior pictures. 

Yes, verified Big Boy relay correctly with prior pictures.

Yes, have put an external battery charger on as of this morning.

 

THANKS,

[Garry Donohue]

I purchased brand new Trojan batteries and they still wouldn’t charge. So I pulled out my black negative cable and as I pulled on it I heard crunching sounds  from inside cable and this is what I found…the first photo as I started slicing the jacket, it didn’t look too bad but as I got to the middle..that’s  the second photo  

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Garry Donohue said:

I purchased brand new Trojan batteries and they still wouldn’t charge. So I pulled out my black negative cable and as I pulled on it I heard crunching sounds  from inside cable and this is what I found…the first photo as I started slicing the jacket, it didn’t look too bad but as I got to the middle..that’s  the second photo  

A TEACHING MOMENT. You are NOT the first.  Glad you found it.  When such happens, put a load on the system….like maybe a 250 watt trouble light.  You want at least 20 amps.  Then use your meter and set if volts.  Then, start to measure voltage.  It the cable is too long, then use a length of #16 or so hookup wire.  Use alligator clips on each end.  Under load is the way to do it….with no load, continuity will be false. By measuring the voltage, you should expect less than 0.01 or less on the meter.  ZERO is perfect.  It is amazing what even a half volt drop will do to damage things.  When the connection is high reaistance, then the current spikes up and that will damage motors.  Trust me.  I lost a hydraulic system or the motor. The issue was two fold.  Monaco goofed and out in the wrong circuit breaker.  Should have been 80….lets go with a 150.  So, the motor literally burned up.

Finding, under load, a high resistance cable, like yours takes time, but it sill save you a lot of grief as well as money.

Glad you found it

[Tom Cherry]

5 hours ago, Ambush said:

It was parked, plugged in to shore power 50 amp.  Went to start it, run everything, and the batteries were dead.  Replaced all batteries (6) as they were 3.5 years old.  Since then, 2 months have passed.  Batteries are dead.  Replaced the big boy relay.  I reset the converter / inverter but it trips out after several hours.

I have an error code on the magnum energy "internal fault - 1".

Im in Jacksonville Florida.  Is there a great mobile electrical mechanic?

Suggestions please!

You need to do a hard reset.  Disconnect shore.  Turn off the battery switches….both.  Make sure there is no solar or cover it or disconnect fuses or the battery leads.

Unbolt the positive and negative from the inverter itself.  Lay them down.  Wait an hour.

Reconnect the terminals.  Turn back on the battery disconnects….hook solar back up. Hook up shore

Press the power button once….hold for maybe 5 seconds.  This will restart the inverter.  You should see high current on display and bulk charging.  Assume your remote is setup right…  file here for how to do.  Use search  MAGNUM  select FILES from dropdown menu when you click EVERYWHERE.

In many cases the soft reset is a waste of time.  Several folks with inverters as old as yours have had issues…one had to do the hard reset twice..that was 2 years ago.  No issues since then.  This is exactly what Magnum will tell you

[TomV48]

2 hours ago, Garry Donohue said:

I purchased brand new Trojan batteries and they still wouldn’t charge. So I pulled out my black negative cable and as I pulled on it I heard crunching sounds  from inside cable and this is what I found…the first photo as I started slicing the jacket, it didn’t look too bad but as I got to the middle..that’s  the second photo  

Wow.  That looks like some serious corrosion.  Obviously, replace it.   Locally for one of cables,if I don't have a big enough crimp I go to Interstate battery distributor who will make it on the spot 

[Guest Ray Davis]

 

Posted just now

  2 hours ago, Garry Donohue said:

I purchased brand new Trojan batteries and they still wouldn’t charge. So I pulled out my black negative cable and as I pulled on it I heard crunching sounds  from inside cable and this is what I found…the first photo as I started slicing the jacket, it didn’t look too bad but as I got to the middle..that’s  the second photo  

Expand  

That's really interesting since the area where the end is crimped looks pretty good.  How far down is the corroded area?  Do you think the insulation was compromised near there?

 I need to get my hearing aids turned up & go listen to my cables.  I have an idea they suffer from the same sickness.

Edited just now by Ray Davis

 

Ray Davis

03 Windsor

[Garry Donohue]

It was right in the center of the cable. Frank the moderator of this forum told me all it takes is a pinhole of water intrusion and it apparently pooled in the low spot of the cable. That’s why the outside edges looked ok cause the water ran to the center and stayed there. The outer jacket of the cable was fine. That’s why I pulled my hair out trying to figure this one out. A simple fix but hard to trouble shoot. 

[96 EVO]

4 minutes ago, Garry Donohue said:

It was right in the center of the cable. Frank the moderator of this forum told me all it takes is a pinhole of water intrusion and it apparently pooled in the low spot of the cable. That’s why the outside edges looked ok cause the water ran to the center and stayed there. The outer jacket of the cable was fine. That’s why I pulled my hair out trying to figure this one out. A simple fix but hard to trouble shoot. 

WoW!

That would be a total head scratcher!

[veraken]

If you can't find a local shop, here is a source that can make exactly what you need.

https://www.batterycablesusa.com/

[Tom Cherry]

Many of us purchase Hydraulic Crimpers and terminals and cable and fix our ends....which will go bad...and we cut off....THEN...we look at the copper.  We HAVE had internal corrosion (GREEN) inside the cable end....where it is crimped...but you can't see it.  The Member then did the 25 amp or so load and tested the cable.  OPPS....had maybe half volt drop.  Chopped off the end..  Put on a new one.  NOW, he did NOT have the internal failure that this one had.  BUT, he did TEST, with 25 amps or so, and determined that the FIX (new terminal) was good.  In this case...the cable would have failed...

BUT, if you have enough slack, then fixing an existing one.  NOT APPLICABLE HERE.

The Crimpers run less than say $100 on Amazon.  Pretty easy to use.  You just have to be meticulous when you cut off the cable and get a clean cut and then use a razor knife and remove the insulation.  I have made up a few and each time...I get better and it is easier.

Just a THOUGHT...  BUT, testing the cable under LOAD is the ONLY way...unless it is obvious....to find it.

Good Luck

 

[vito.a]

Did you get your Magnum inverter working?

Make sure your wiring/cables are connected correctly and the terminals are clean. 

Magnum has great tech support. 

800-553-6418

[DBRV.0]

On 12/1/2023 at 11:56 AM, Ambush said:

...  Replaced the big boy relay.  ...

FYI, if anyone else thinks that their Big Boy (rear bumper electrical panel) needs to be replaced, think again.  I found a great explanation in the YT video titled "You Don't Have to Replace the Bad Part...EVERYTIME!!!".  When I bought our coach, it had charging problems: shore power was not charging all of the batteries.  Fortunately I determined that prior to signature, thus added another discount.

Indeed, when I opened it up, the Big Boy was indeed in need of a good cleaning.

Edited December 4, 2023 by DBRV.0

[DBRV.0]

On 12/1/2023 at 11:56 AM, Ambush said:

...

Suggestions please!

To better understand all electrical issues, my suggestion is to have and use a multimeter as a method to collect diagnostic information.  I have a few, but one that I really like is a UNI-T UT210x, where 'x' may be D or E.  It will measure the volts and amperage in AC or DC - important in your situation.  For example clamp to measure DC amps on your battery cables, or measure voltages for house and chassis batteries while charging or at rest.

The more information you have, the easier you will be able to manage and protect your resources.

[Ambush]

A HUGE THANK YOU to all of you who responded.

I plan to find time this week to try some of your suggestions.

I will let you know!!

THANKS AGAIN!!!

[grizzly]

On 12/1/2023 at 4:59 PM, 96 EVO said:

WoW!

That would be a total head scratcher!

 

On 12/4/2023 at 8:28 AM, DBRV.0 said:

FYI, if anyone else thinks that their Big Boy (rear bumper electrical panel) needs to be replaced, think again.  I found a great explanation in the YT video titled "You Don't Have to Replace the Bad Part...EVERYTIME!!!".  When I bought our coach, it had charging problems: shore power was not charging all of the batteries.  Fortunately I determined that prior to signature, thus added another discount.

Indeed, when I opened it up, the Big Boy was indeed in need of a good cleaning.

Yea when I had a problem with batteries charging and engine starting that's what I did. Took big boy off and cleaned it and that solved the problem. I also carry a spare

Edited December 5, 2023 by grizzly
mistake

[Ambush]

UPDATE;  I completed a hard restart of the inverter.  Magnum energy control panel shows Bulk Charging DC 8.9V.  Then about every minute it shows AC Overload Fault and then clears and goes back to Bulk Charging DC  8.9V.

In addition, what appears to be the emergency flashers (even though they are not turned on) are cycling on and off along with the red light on the top of the dash board blinking.

THOUGHTS? 

AGAIN MUCH APPRECIATION FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!!!!!!!!!

[DBRV.0]

5 hours ago, Ambush said:

THOUGHTS? 

If there are voltage problems, I don't care what a single gauge panel reads.  What is needed is a measurement by something reliable.  I'm not saying the panel is not, but it should be double-checked with a separate meter.  My opinion is that everyone who owns or operates an RV should have a multimeter and know how to use it, even if it only used for testing battery voltages, from AAA size to starting or house batteries.

If the available voltage to electrics is out of normal operating range, I can guarantee that all kinds of wild things might happen.  Each electronic piece is likely to have different lower voltages at which it fails to function reliably or correctly.  If you are truly below 10 volts, all observations and diagnostics are worthless until the voltage is raised to normal.

[Tom Cherry]

5 hours ago, Ambush said:

UPDATE;  I completed a hard restart of the inverter.  Magnum energy control panel shows Bulk Charging DC 8.9V.  Then about every minute it shows AC Overload Fault and then clears and goes back to Bulk Charging DC  8.9V.

In addition, what appears to be the emergency flashers (even though they are not turned on) are cycling on and off along with the red light on the top of the dash board blinking.

THOUGHTS? 

AGAIN MUCH APPRECIATION FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!!!!!!!!!

I would CHECK the batteries.  YES, a reach.  Are they connected properly.  Use the manual.  

Second....Read the following and verify that your inverter is set up properly.

NEXT STEP.  Use a VOM and measure the voltage at the batteries.  There have been failed remotes that will baffle folks to death.  SO, when the voltage is reading 8.9 VDC, what is the actual voltage at the batteries.  THAT IS A MUST.

Finally...last STEPS before getting out the CREDIT CARD.

Unplug the Battery Temperature Phone Cable.  Do the HARD RESET...except again, wait an hour before you RESTART.  This is DIRECT from Magnum Tech support

NOW.....measure and verify the remote.....

LAST CHANCE....  With the Battery Temp Sensor unplugged....then UNPLUG the remote.  That is the phone cable.  NOW do the HARD RESET.  The inverter will function on its on....and has defaults that will run it....without a remote.  When you do that, you have to then measure the voltage at the Batteries....but that is no big deal.

You should expect high 14's when in Bulk...if you have 4 batteries....then in about 3 hours it will start to come down...maybe 4 - 5 it will be around 13.1 or so.  WITH 8 it will take a while longer....but if you are seeing 14 or maybe even a "flicker" above 15...no an issue.  BUT, you need to monitor and see if the VOLTAGE is constant....it may vary a tenth or so....but as long as it it HIGH in the mid to high 14's, it is charging.  THEN, you know there is an ISSUE with the REMOTE.  IT happens....mind died about 3 years ago and Magnum walked me through all sorts of tests....finally....buy a NEW Remote.

After all that....then call Magnum and they might have some other troubleshooting that they can easily do and all you have to do is press the right buttons.

As to your Flashers.  Only ONE subject or issue is permitted per topic.  This one is for charging.  Please SEARCH using the SEARCH BOX.  Use FLASHER and then click on the EVERYWHERE and select TOPICS.  That will send you to several topics.  Read or scan them.  IF NO JOY, then start a topic....maybe "Emergency Flashers come ON BY THEMSELVES.  2006 Sig.  Help Please".  Then restate the issue.  It is impossible to jump back and forth and have any continuity and then the topic so off subject and can not be searched in the future.  Thanks.

[DBRV.0]

As a secondary comment, if your chassis or house batteries are below 12V, and your inverter/charger is not doing the job, you may have to resort to the same steps you would take if a car battery were too low to start the car - use a battery charger to charge the battery(s).  It should not be necessary to state, but be sure you aren't trying to charge one of the 6V house batteries with 12V.  The use of a multimeter will help verify the correct connection points.

As a tertiary comment, make sure the battery connections on all chassis and house batteries have a good, corrosion-free connection with the cables.  A charger such as your Magnum cannot charge if the electricity has trouble getting across a point of corrosion.

[96 EVO]

26 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

I would CHECK the batteries.  YES, a reach.  Are they connected properly.  Use the manual.  

Second....Read the following and verify that your inverter is set up properly.

 

Unplug the Battery Temperature Phone Cable.  

Good idea!

If the battery temperature sensor goes bad, it can create havoc with the charging voltage!