Battery charging

[moxy1962]

5 hours ago, Steven P said:

Thank you.  I can do most of that, but I have all AGMs so I cannot measure the cell's sp. Gravity and cannot equalize.  I have checked all charger settings and they are correct for the house batteries.

One thought, would an Amp L Start connecting my chassis batteries  to the house batts change anything as far as when off shore power?  I know the green light flashes saying maintaining initially.

On 12/8/2021 at 10:05 AM, Dr4Film said:

👍

Not up on agms but was under the  impression they can be equalized? 

[Dr4Film]

Yes, AGM's can be equalized. I use the PowerPulse Technology to accomplish that task.

[Steven P]

5 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Yes, AGM's can be equalized. I use the PowerPulse Technology to accomplish that task.

I'm learning everyday. I guess I was going by the Magnum inverter/charger.  I believe the instructions there say not to equalize AGMs with it?  I'll need to look back. 

[Dr4Film]

I do not use my Inverter/Charger to equalize the batteries. I don't like sending that much voltage into the batteries and into my 12 VDC  coach system that the Trace/Xantrex Charger or even the Magnum Charger would do while equalizing.

[moxy1962]

6 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

I do not use my Inverter/Charger to equalize the batteries. I don't like sending that much voltage into the batteries and into my 12 VDC  coach system that the Trace/Xantrex Charger or even the Magnum Charger would do while equalizing.

My trace puts about 15.5 - 15.9 volts to the house batteries, I usually shut everything off and disconnect what I can for equalizing just in case, high voltage is the only way you can equalize and reverse build up on plates of lead acid batteries, no real way around it 

[Dr4Film]

Bill,

There is a very safe and easy "way around it". Simply by using the PowerPulse Technology units on the batteries, it will reduce and prevent any sulfation of the plates.

Copied from their web site.

"Patented Pulse Technology reduces and prevents sulfation buildup"

https://www.pulsetech.net/powerpulse-battery-maintenance-system

[David Pratt]

If your coach is equipped with AGM's, you should at least annually load test them the same as you should with Lead Acid Batteries. Lead Acid Batteries are best checked using a Hydrometer to check specific gravity.

Because AGM's cannot be checked with a Hydrometer they should be load tested.

I use the following Instrument to test my AGM's annually. It is digital and quite accurate and easy to use.

 

FOXWELL BT705 12V 24V Car Battery Load Tester Cranking Charging Test 2000 CCA

BT705 battery tester designed for 12 V or 24 V batteries with a capacity of 100 to 2000 CCA, such as regular flooded, AGM flat plate, AGM spiral, GEL and deep cycle batteries, 12V & 24V starting and charging system. The test results based on CCA, EN, CA, MCA, DIN, SAE, JIS and IEC Standards. 

 BT705 tester displays the decision on the starter system, cranking voltage, and cranking time in milliseconds. Also, the battery diagnostic tool can check 12V or 24V charging system to make sure the output voltage of the generator is in a regular condition, the rectifier diode works fine and the charging current is a normal statu

✔Foxwell BT-705 Battery Analyzer Features and Benefits:

• Multiple vehicle applications ¨C passenger cars and heavy duty trucks.

• Tests batteries from rated from 100 to 2000CCA. Cold Cranking Amps settings is in increments of 1 and you can line up with your battery ratings from 100 to 2000CCA.

• Tests multiple battery types- regular flooded, AGM flat plate ,AGM spiral and gel.

• Tests multiple rating systems-CCA,BCI,CA,MCA,JIS,DIN,IEC,EN,SAE,GB.

• Tests the batteries on the car directly- no need to remove the battery.

• Quick and accurate test result display in just 3 seconds, detects bad cells directly.

• Tests 12&24 volt charging system.

• Quick starter analysis without disabling the ignition.

• Does not emit light, heat or spark ,or discharge battery-keeps operation safe for all levels of users.

• Automatic temperature compensation.

• Ripple voltage test for easy and intuitive check of faults.

• Extremely easy to use with large backlight LCD display and menu-driven operation.

• Rubberized sleeve protects, 7.8ft tester cable with metal alligator clips. Viewing/Printing Test Results,allow you view test results and print the data via optional Bluetooth printer.

  MULTIPLE BATTERY TYPES TEST

work for regular flooded, AGM flat plate, AGM spiral and gel

VEHICLE BATTERY ANALYSIS

•GOOD BATTERY:Battery is in good condition.
•GOOD-RECHARGE:Battery is in good condition but low current.
•CHARGE & RETEST:Fully charge the battery and retest. If you still get CHARGE & RETEST after fully charge the battery, replace it.
•REPLACE BATTERY:The battery is almost dead or the connection between the battery and battery cable is poor. Replace the battery and retest; or disconnect the battery cables and retest the battery using the out-of-vehicle test.
•BAD CELL-REPLACE:The battery may be damaged.

 VEHICLE CRANKING ANALYSIS

•CRANKING NORMAL: The starter voltage is normal and the battery is fully charged.
•LOW VOLTAGE: The starter voltage is low and the battery is fully charged.
•CHARGE BATTERY: The starter voltage is low and the battery is discharged. Fully charge the battery and repeat the starter system test.
•REPLACE BATTERY: Battery must be replaced before the starting system can be tested.
•NO START: No vehicle start detected.
•CRANKING SKIPPED: A start was not detected.

 VEHICLE ALTERNATOR CHARGING SYSTEM ANALYSIS

•NO PROBLEMS: System is showing normal output from the alternator.
•NO OUTPUT: No alternator output detected. Check connections to and from the alternator, especially the connection to the battery.L
•OW OUTPUT: Alternator not providing sufficient to power the system's electrical loads and charge the battery. H
•IGH OUTPUT: Alternator voltage output exceeds the normal limits.E
•EXCESSIVE RIPPLE: Excessive AC ripple detected. One or more diodes in the alternator are not working or there is stator damage.

 

 

[BigNick]

18 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Bill,

There is a very safe and easy "way around it". Simply by using the PowerPulse Technology units on the batteries, it will reduce and prevent any sulfation of the plates.

Copied from their web site.

"Patented Pulse Technology reduces and prevents sulfation buildup"

https://www.pulsetech.net/powerpulse-battery-maintenance-system

The powerpulse looks like a good efficient way to equalize. Since our batteries are in parallel one wire at one end and another at the other. Viola... let it do its thing. Good price too..

Wait a minute, I have 4 6v batteries so I wonder what that hook up would look like?

Edited December 18, 2021 by BigNick

[moxy1962]

On 12/17/2021 at 7:39 AM, Dr4Film said:

Bill,

There is a very safe and easy "way around it". Simply by using the PowerPulse Technology units on the batteries, it will reduce and prevent any sulfation of the plates.

Copied from their web site.

"Patented Pulse Technology reduces and prevents sulfation buildup"

https://www.pulsetech.net/powerpulse-battery-maintenance-system

Yes I read up on those, mixed reviews on whether they actually did anything to improve sulphated lead acid batteries or not, I know I see a measurable increase in my batteries specific gravity during and after equalizing the with the inverter/charger. The pulse system from what I read uses up to 60 volts for extremely short periods to blast sulphate off plates,  again mixed results on whether the damage done by extremely high voltage pulsing through the battery is off set by the recovery of capacity. If I believe what the so called experts say there needs to be some sort of fluid movement inside the battery to properly redistribute the chemicals, to some extent the bubbling accomplishes this, whether that’s true or not I don’t expect it hurts, the pulse tech if it actually works doesn’t accomplish that from I read. 
 

So equalizing with inverters works but it requires some attention during charging and does increase voltage nominally for an extended period of time, but I definitely works and 16 volts is typically with in the threshold of most 12 volt DC equipment but not all, the knew technology using extremely high voltage for milliseconds is definitely not recommended by some so called battery experts and causes damage to lead acid batteries and sensitive electronics. 
 

The jury’s out on whether pulse gimmicks work or are snake oil and to what extent if any they have on the typical golf cart style lead acid batteries used by the majority of RV, boats etc. 

[Dr4Film]

We as individual people luckily can still make our own choices as to what works and what doesn't.

I trust the validity of the numerous case studies and test data listed on their web site which positively prove how effective pulse technology is in extending the life of batteries.

It is certainly not "snake oil" or as you say "pulse gimmicks" when you read through all of data.

I will stick with what works for me and my batteries. My trust is in the science!

Edited December 19, 2021 by Dr4Film

[Steven P]

Unhooked my chassis batteries today and waited just over 2 hours and ran a test on them.  Not great as long as this tester works well.  I will say I compared it to a tester at advance auto earlier this year on boat batteries and they were the same. Pics attached. I plan on leaving them unhooked and retesting in am. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Steven P

[Tom Wallis]

Do I understand that this is the chassis battery voltage at rest, with nothing charging? If so it means your battery is fully charged and in excellent condition. I'm not sure what changed that gave you a second higher reading or what the percentage graph is representing.

[Steven P]

Yea, these pics are from each of my chassis batteries at rest.  I had unhooked the amp L Start for about 2 hours prior.  The volts are good, but I'm concerned w the CCA only being about half of the 950 rated.  I'm gonna check again this am (after some coffee).

[Steven P]

Retested both chassis batteries just now. These are Duracell AGM 31C w 950 CCA.  I do not know how old they are.  They came w the MH when we bought it 3.5 years ago.  The PO had passed away but we were told they were fairly new.  I know one shop let them run dead when they did some work for me. The pics are the readings from each battery.  The volts look good after being unhooked overnight, but the CCAs don't.  You can see at the top of my tester one batt is NG (not good) and the other is marginal.  Outside temp currently about 39deg.  Thanksgiving one time he was slow to start but did start. That was a cold AM. 

[Tom Wallis]

Okay, I wasn't familiar with that particular tester so I did some research. It seems that it should be a pretty accurate indicator. The only caveat was that you should be sure to get the lowest possible impedance  reading that you can for an accurate reading. That may require removing the terminals and putting the meter on a clean battery post. If you still get similar readings it's possible your battery has exceeded it's best before date.

Like I said before, if it's still starting good I wouldn't be in a hurry to replace them. You may squeeze a little more life from them and if you get in a bind you have your house batteries as a backup.

To your other point about alternator voltage, those batteries seem to be fully charged. I can't say if that's because the converter charger topped them off or if your alternator did, but they are full.

[Paul J A]

3 hours ago, Steven P said:

Retested both chassis batteries just now. These are Duracell AGM 31C w 950 CCA.  I do not know how old they are.  They came w the MH when we bought it 3.5 years ago.  The PO had passed away but we were told they were fairly new.  I know one shop let them run dead when they did some work for me. The pics are the readings from each battery.  The volts look good after being unhooked overnight, but the CCAs don't.  You can see at the top of my tester one batt is NG (not good) and the other is marginal.  Outside temp currently about 39deg.  Thanksgiving one time he was slow to start but did start. That was a cold AM. 

There is a date code on the battery[s]. Take a picture of it; them, and go to Batterys + or = place of knowledge. They will define the code.

[Ivylog]

One easy test I do on my starting batteries is to disconnect them and see if each one (I have 3) will start my ISX. Helps that I have a Denso starter. One battery (1 of 2) would start my ISL 400 without a Denso.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Ivylog

[Tom Wallis]

I used the term "best before date" figuratively. Their actual age is not that important.

[Steven P]

8 hours ago, Tom Wallis said:

To your other point about alternator voltage, those batteries seem to be fully charged. I can't say if that's because the converter charger topped them off or if your alternator did, but they are full.

I have been parked and hooked to shore power for a few weeks now.  I have an Amp L Start to keep my chassis batteries charging while hooked to shore. It keeps them at 13.6V.  

I appreciate all the info from everyone.  I'll look harder for the date code when I'm off work again.