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Electrical panel sub-component identification help...


Carnac
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New to me 2003 Monaco Dynasty Jack - 38' two slides and tag.

Can anyone help me identify the circled components? (these are behind a panel in the engine compartment on the passenger side rear of the MH)

I included a picture without the draw overlays - thought it might be more clear.

Trying to get smarter about the MH systems

I had some issues with the salesman solenoid - it is working now, I think it is the BLUE circled component. If so, is this a latched type or does it need power all the time to stay activated. I am looking at having a spare on hand, so I replace if necessary. If so, anyone know the part number? Finally, is this the component that I can jump across the two big lugs if it fails and I need my 12v DC back.

When I lost 12v DC power, I found that I lost a lot of capabilities - esp. no a/c thermostat (so no a/c).

Thanks - Jim

InkedInside 12v box 1_LI.jpg

Inside 12v box 1.jpg

Edited by Carnac
finished a sentence...
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I will start off the conversation with:

Top left looks like a battery isolation charging.  This allows each battery to be seperately charged by the alternator.  Looks like the top connector is for one battery bank, and the bottom is for the other.  And the cable in the middle might be from the alternator. 

The Battery leads then go to the Round solenoid in the middle might be a "Big Boy" relay to connect engine / house batteries together if one set is dead to allow for motor start.  the Output from that goes to:

The top middle looks like a resettable circuit breaker.

Don't know what the top right is...looks again like a battery isolator, but the thin wires makes me think not.

The two devices on the right look like solenoids...not sure for what.  maybe for hydraulic pump?

The Big Boy also feeds the row of devices at the bottom are resettable circuit breakers protecting individual circuits.

 

You should get a multimeter and find out what has 12V and what doesn't.

 

Ok, thems my guesses.  Who's up next?

Edited by DavidL
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Thanks David,

I am thinking pretty much the same.

I do have factory solar - could that be the upper right heat sink? I has a green light even when batteries are disconnected, but not at night (I think).

Jim

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The green finned box is a Lambert maintainer, it would charge your chassis batteries once house is sufficiently charged. The 2 little solenoids are likely your salesman solenoids, at least one is, don't know why they are different, could be that one was replaced. If they are connected to a purple wire, that would confirm it.

Edited by Ivan K
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You system is real similar to mine.  The bottom four magenta arrows are probably  fuses. The two that are tied together are probably 150a fuses going to the inverter- so you have 300a that can go the the inverter.

the other two on mine go to two solenoids that connect to the salesman switch. One is for my house domestic fuse panel (12v), the other goes up front to my front fuse bay.  (That’s the bottom right green one - solenoid).

I am not sure what the one above is (blue)…

Also, because of your battery isolator (bid blue top left - yellow circle) you have a duvac alternator.  Vanwilliams talked about that recently with replacing alternators.

The middle purple is a big boy solenoid. On my unit(2000), it just does the battery boost. A few years after, they started using it to charge both batteries when one had a charging voltage- so it would open and click often. - Don’t know when they started that. My guess is yours does not do that because you have the battery isolator that charges both batteries from the alternator, and you have a lambert maintainer, that will charge the chassis battery when plugged into 120v or the solar is running. 

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Thanks for all the help above...

Problem again with my salesman solenoid - I have been disconnecting 120v power and 12v power from the motorhome while replacing roof A/C capacitors, new shrouds, and general clean-up. Needed to have all power off.

Current state (pun intended) is that some of the 12v works in the mh but not everything. For example, the A/C thermostats work, but some of the 12v lights and the holding/water/battery full panel do not work.

It seems that I have two solenoids for 12v power. I can test with a 12v probe and see no power getting across one of the solenoids. It is getting very hot though, so I disconnected the house batteries for now.

I have a new solenoid on order - should be here in a couple of days.

I also plan on just jumping the "bad" solenoid to see if that solves the problem (at least for now).

However, it seems strange to me that the "bad" solenoid is getting so hot (with the house batteries connected). Hot as in can't keep a finger touching it. Does that make sense? I have tried to make sure most 12v items are off in the mh.

Also, when I jump the solenoid, I plan to use 4 gage battery wire (about 8") with eyelets. Do I need to remove the two control wires to the solenoid? (WHITE - I assume ground and PURPLE - I assume control from the switch up by the passenger's seat)?

I'm hoping that the heat issue goes away (by jumping and/or with the new solenoid).

Thanks everyone for the help so far. I think I'm getting close to solving this and several other gremlins - in general the mh seems in very good shape, I just don't think some of these things were maintained much for the past few years (before my wife and I purchased a couple of months ago).

My goal is to get everything working and reliable.

Jim and Sue

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My solenoids used to be hot too, the coil is constantly powered on and wasting power, unless they were latching solenoids which they apparently aren't. When you bypass them with similar gauge, you can just undo and isolate the purple wire. This is a ground from the switch upfront. This will avoid accidental power waste and heat.

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17 hours ago, Carnac said:

Thanks for all the help above...

Problem again with my salesman solenoid - I have been disconnecting 120v power and 12v power from the motorhome while replacing roof A/C capacitors, new shrouds, and general clean-up. Needed to have all power off.

Current state (pun intended) is that some of the 12v works in the mh but not everything. For example, the A/C thermostats work, but some of the 12v lights and the holding/water/battery full panel do not work.

It seems that I have two solenoids for 12v power. I can test with a 12v probe and see no power getting across one of the solenoids. It is getting very hot though, so I disconnected the house batteries for now.

I have a new solenoid on order - should be here in a couple of days.

I also plan on just jumping the "bad" solenoid to see if that solves the problem (at least for now).

However, it seems strange to me that the "bad" solenoid is getting so hot (with the house batteries connected). Hot as in can't keep a finger touching it. Does that make sense? I have tried to make sure most 12v items are off in the mh.

Also, when I jump the solenoid, I plan to use 4 gage battery wire (about 8") with eyelets. Do I need to remove the two control wires to the solenoid? (WHITE - I assume ground and PURPLE - I assume control from the switch up by the passenger's seat)?

I'm hoping that the heat issue goes away (by jumping and/or with the new solenoid).

Thanks everyone for the help so far. I think I'm getting close to solving this and several other gremlins - in general the mh seems in very good shape, I just don't think some of these things were maintained much for the past few years (before my wife and I purchased a couple of months ago).

My goal is to get everything working and reliable.

Jim and Sue

from the top….

first, download the prints and then understand how the solenoids are activated.  A latching type solenoid has a momentary contact circuit.  There is 12 VDC coming into the center contact of the switch.  Then you push it one way to activate or open…then the other way to activate or close.  If your battery cutoff switch is a On/OFF switch, it is a “coil” stays ON. Since you know the part number, then download the instructions and trouble shooting guidelines.  If they are latching, then they are NOT consuming any power.  The prints will also show the switch leads and be marked as “on or energized”…and the switch will have 3 leads for power as well as two leads for the “light”.

A “Big Boy” style solenoid will have a “vibration” or maybe even hum as the coil is engaged.  The Intellitec Big Boys are actually “Dual Voltage”.  When used as a Battery Boost….YES.  They let you know that there is a full 12 VDC going into them.  When they are used as. BIRD system, there is a special module that turns them ON with a full 12 VDC….then quickly drops the voltage to a “holding level” of maybe 3.5 to 4.0 volts.  Some of the Dynasty’s might have had a special board for that in the later years.  Again. Read and understand the prints.  

it is suggested that you first understand HOW the solenoids work and not just hap hazardously disconnect or jumper.  You have, what seems to be some good info…just research and understand what you are doing….and why…and don’t mask a problem in the circuits they control with a malfunction of a solenoid 

Some are rated at 200 A and I have seen the Dynasty (memory…check the prints) rated at 300 Amp.  Remember, 200 or even 300 A is not enough to crank the engine and if you hold it on and try to do that, you will put upwards of 1400 A through them and destroy them.  They are made for HOLDING ON for a period of time to put a surface charge on the Chassis Battery.  Read the manual.  It is very specific.  In a pinch, the Genny can be started.

Next UP. HOT OR HEAT.  Bad.  That means the contacts are pitted and arcing.  That means that you MIGHT be able to take apart…like the 200 A Big Boy and clean the contacts.  Many do that.  If you decide to jumper a solenoid….then turn it OFF.  Remove the small control wires and label. THEN jumper the contacts.

Hope thus helps.

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As I was starting our full-time RVing, I knew I needed to reduce the parasite draws when boondocking. I replaced both of the salesman solenoids with Victron Smart BP-65’s. 
 

The original solenoids would get “too” hot for comfort touch. This waste heat was just keeping a circuit open. I bypassed them with a 4ga wire, and had the switch off. Then I realized the BP65’s would cut-off power if my battery got low. Protecting my lithium’s was worth it… and they take almost zero power. Double win!

If I need to turn them off (occasionally our furnace needs powered cycled), I can do it via Bluetooth on my phone. 
 

Plus (if I remember correctly)- they only cost slightly more than a replacement solenoid. 

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I have been going through the same thing with my (new to me) 2002 Monaco Signature Series.    The solenoid in blue feeds the "domestic" fuse block in my DC panel next to the driver side front wheel.   The solenoid in green feeds the low current DC panel on the left (driver) side of the engine.   The two solenoids, blue and green, are connected together and are operated by the battery cutoff switch on the dashboard.   When the house batteries are connected, as in normal use, both solenoids get hot.

I decided that I would figure out what went wrong.   The solenoid looks OK when removed.

DSC02975.thumb.JPG.9e0c35de65c2f7aa11fd629346863bb5.JPG

I drilled out the rivets and opened it up.   There is some black dust inside.

DSC02977.thumb.JPG.ff50ca4393120aa4dc1402d3c5e93165.JPG

Here is the problem, the contacts are oxidized.   This is likely from the excessive heat that the solenoid is subjected to continuously.

DSC02979.thumb.JPG.bbb4523da3f21bd797076cdbf5a33f4c.JPG

The coil looks OK, it is clearly not burned up.   The varnish on the windings stood up to the heat with no problems.   However, the insulating material has crumbled and turned to dust.   Perhaps the dust got on the contacts and prevented a good connection.   Or, perhaps the dust bound up the sliding mechanism and prevented the solenoid from closing properly.

DSC02982.thumb.JPG.cbf4808b6d3be539fe31f264bf2db183.JPG

I hope that the new solenoid that I installed is made with better material.

A word of warning about working with high current DC.   Always turn off both DC disconnect switched before working in there.   Some of these connections are not fused, so you are working without any protection.   A short circuit can result in an explosion of molten metal blasting into your face.   With 12 volts you won't get electrocuted, but you can still get badly injured.

 

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6 minutes ago, On_the_road said:

I have been going through the same thing with my (new to me) 2002 Monaco Signature Series.    The solenoid in blue feeds the "domestic" fuse block in my DC panel next to the driver side front wheel.   The solenoid in green feeds the low current DC panel on the left (driver) side of the engine.   The two solenoids, blue and green, are connected together and are operated by the battery cutoff switch on the dashboard.   When the house batteries are connected, as in normal use, both solenoids get hot.

I decided that I would figure out what went wrong.   The solenoid looks OK when removed.

DSC02975.thumb.JPG.9e0c35de65c2f7aa11fd629346863bb5.JPG

I drilled out the rivets and opened it up.   There is some black dust inside.

DSC02977.thumb.JPG.ff50ca4393120aa4dc1402d3c5e93165.JPG

Here is the problem, the contacts are oxidized.   This is likely from the excessive heat that the solenoid is subjected to continuously.

DSC02979.thumb.JPG.bbb4523da3f21bd797076cdbf5a33f4c.JPG

The coil looks OK, it is clearly not burned up.   The varnish on the windings stood up to the heat with no problems.   However, the insulating material has crumbled and turned to dust.   Perhaps the dust got on the contacts and prevented a good connection.   Or, perhaps the dust bound up the sliding mechanism and prevented the solenoid from closing properly.

DSC02982.thumb.JPG.cbf4808b6d3be539fe31f264bf2db183.JPG

I hope that the new solenoid that I installed is made with better material.

A word of warning about working with high current DC.   Always turn off both DC disconnect switched before working in there.   Some of these connections are not fused, so you are working without any protection.   A short circuit can result in an explosion of molten metal blasting into your face.   With 12 volts you won't get electrocuted, but you can still get badly injured.

 

WOW>>>  THANKS for that and the pictures.

I would add, to your very GOOD write up a little detail, that I think is correct as we have had to help out many folks. YOU ALWAYS NEED TO KNOW HOW THE SOLENOIDS ARE "TURNED ON".  

The Battery Cut Off or Salesman's switches are controlled by a switch.  It varies, but MOST are latching relays or don't have POWER to the coil when you push the momentary contact (spring loaded to center) switch. These latching Solenoids should be relatively COOL to the touch...and not have any "humming or vibration".  The issue with them....is two fold.  

Contact Failure.  That is evident in the picture. 

Coil or Function Failure.  The coil drops out and the solenoid is non functional.

Contact failure comes from carrying a high load for a long time or a high resistance load.....or CONSTANTLY turning ON and OFF, UNDER FULL LOAD.  Monaco did a poor job of designing....but it was dealer pressure. And while on the dealer's lot....not a problem. BUT we owners need to know the pitfalls or the design issues.

IF you use the Battery Cutoff Switch to turn OFF parasitic electrical during storage....then KILL ALL THE LOADS at their source.  Sort of REDUNDANT....but they were NOT designed to be constantly turned ON and OFF like a light switch.  Likewise, if you daily use the switch to turn off things....then the Full Line Amperage (FLA) will start to arc and pit the contacts.  It is an owner's call as to whether to bypass.  Knowledgeable Dynasty owners can use the switch to "reset" the CPU or the Multiplex system. BUT, they kill all the DC Loads....and then flip OFF....wait.... and turn ON.  Saves walking out or pulling the power fuse to the Multiplex systems.  That is ONE use.  Others that use them to kill parasitic loads need to kill the individual loads.....  Turning off the Inverter HELPS some....but it has a major "internal load"....and the Salesman's switch does NOT turn OFF the inverter. On my Camelot....I have to pull the Positive on the House as my Inverter is wired UPSTREAM of the House Disconnect.

SO....I chose to actually remove, after jumpering for a few years, the Latching style Intellitec House Solenoid....I needed to get to some connections BEHIND IT...so I did not reinstall....just connected the OUTPUT directly to the high current fuse that fed it.  DW had also accidentally tripped it....thinking it was the interior lights.  I love her...so I removed the issue and we were MUCH happier. 

NOW....the Poster also comments about a Chassis Solenoid.  On the Dynasty prints (and higher) on SOME....so I will NOT say ALL, there is one or two solenoids that are IGNITION CONTROLLED.  When you turn on the KEY.....they come on.  Turn OFF the KEY....they are OFF.  DO NOT JUMPER THEM.  These DO have 12 VDC going to the coil.  I do NOT think that they are LATCHING....but never say never.  THEY will feel a little warmer as the coil as current and you might feel them vibrate or even "hum".

BUT....understand and identify WHICH one(s) are Ignition Controlled.  USE your handy dandy "hand....gingerly" heat detection device. YES, there may be a little heat...but hot HOT H O T.  If they are getting old then odds are....they may be suffering from Contact Arcing. REPLACE THEM before they fail.  Your Prints will show you HOW they are activated....OR....have someone turn ON the ignition and have your hand on the body....you should "FEEL" the click.  

Hope this helps....Thanks for the post.....

 

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