Want to tow 4000 TOAD - 2008 Cayman 37 ft - 340 HP 660 FT Lbs Torque ISB

[Stephen Walsh]

Will the rig pull this easily or is it too much weight? The towing capacity lists at 7000lbs

[Robert92867]

The old rule of thumb was 10 hp for every 1000 lbs.  I think the "new" rule of thumb should be 15 hp for every 1000 lbs., or else the the OTR trucks will blow you off the road climbing any kind of grade.  What is your actual total gross weight, including the toad? Divide by hp and see whether you will be crossing country followed by a line of angry truck drivers.  I know because I fall in the "old" rule of thumb.

[Stephen Walsh]

Think we’ll UBER

[Tom Cherry]

I would hope that some folks with an ISB would chime in here.  Your 4000 pounds about 80% of our 1998 Ford Explorer, which we towed behind a 36 Ft W22.5 Gasser.  We weigh  about 20% more than you do and have nearly twice the torque (Torque gets you moving - Acceleration) and HP keeps you able to pass and sustain).

You MIGHT put that question out on IRV2 to get some feedback.  What will be necessary to get a REAL answer is "Where do you plan to travel?"  If you plan on all mountain and hill climbing....then drop down to a "Smart Car"...  LOL.  But if you do occasional hill climbing, then you are probably OK.  You WILL have to learn HOW to use your 6 speed and manually shift and learn the max RPM per gear.  That is an acquired skill and you don't need to be a NASCAR driver or an OTR driver to learn.

The other thing, is braking.  The heavier, the harder to brake and descend on steep grades.  Again....your travel choices.  I chose to purchase the Camelot with the stock Engine brake as our out west and Rocky Mountain driving was very low....so I take it easy.  

I would get feedback and an intelligent decision....plus PM the responders and maybe call them and do a one-on-one discussion....

But Uber and Lyft are there and ready....typically, unless you are in the middle of Death Valley....when you are...

[jacwjames]

Do you know what your current weight is?  Where did you get the 7000 lb tow capacity?

I looked at a 2008 brochure and it lists the gross weight at 29K and the combined weight at 33K, so based on that the towing capacity is 4000 lbs.

But if your total weight is less then the difference could be put towards the tow vehicle weight but you'd be maxed out. 

[Stephen Walsh]

Gonna UBER, or rent,and e-bike for now 

Can buy a lot of that for what it would cost for a toad and setup

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

13 hours ago, Stephen Walsh said:

Gonna UBER, or rent,and e-bike for now 

Can buy a lot of that for what it would cost for a toad and setup

 

 

Be cautious about your e-bikes.  There is an article with a lot of facts on the Fox News site that the following came from….

In 2022, e-bikes were responsible for an estimated 220 fires, up more than 100% year-over-year, and six deaths, according to the New York Fire Department (FDNY). Already this year, there have been 59 fires, more than three dozen injuries and five deaths in New York City as a result of e-bike battery fires.

As to the ability to tow….i had GASSER 340:Hp Winnebago 35U Workhorse 22.5 chassis and towed a 4800 1998 Ford Explorer.  Put over 10K and drove it in the NC mountains on some steep climbs.  You will have 50 - 75% of the torque on your rig.  When fully loaded and with the Yukon behind, I have about 10HP per 1000 lobs….

Don’t make a decision based on generalization.  Use common sense and see what others are doing.  If you Google “Flat towing with 340HP ISB”, you will probably get a lot of hits on IRV2 or other brands.  Compare rig weights and then make an informed decision.

https://library.rvusa.com/brochure/04Adventurerbro.pdf

[Stephen Walsh]

Another question is when using engine brake descending grades with a toad, won’t that overuse the surge brakes on the car dolly saving the coach brakes but burning up the car dolly brakes?

I searched for if the brakes on the 4 wheel down toad will engage while using the engine brake. Some say yes that when the engine brake is on it triggers the coach brake lights. The coach brake lights might engage the 4 wheel toad brakes, and be burning those up while descending as well.

Third option, no brakes on car dolly. Must be under 3000 total lbs and doesn’t sound safe.

Think we will UBER, rent, and or e-bike unless there is a better solution.

 

 

 

 

[jimc99999]

38 minutes ago, Stephen Walsh said:

Another question is when using engine brake descending grades with a toad, won’t that overuse the surge brakes on the car dolly saving the coach brakes but burning up the car dolly brakes?

I searched for if the brakes on the 4 wheel down toad will engage while using the engine brake. Some say yes that when the engine brake is on it triggers the coach brake lights. The coach brake lights might engage the 4 wheel toad brakes, and be burning those up while descending as well.

If you get a a braking system triggered by the air brakes (Demco Air Force 1 or similar), then your engine brake or compression brake will not trigger the car's brakes. 

I'm not familiar with the brake systems triggered by brake light circuits, but many of them have bluetooth controllers so you can probably shut them off while descending if necessary. And if you can't, many cars have decent sized brakes that can handle quite a bit of braking on a long descent. If the car is braking enough to slow the motor home beyond what the engine brake is doing, you'll have to release the engine brake pretty often anyway. The compression brake in my 97 Windsor can keep my speed down pretty well by itself with the 4200 lb toad doing no braking. If the toad was also braking enough to heat its brakes too much, I'd be releasing the pac-brake because I'd be slowing too much. I think you're overthinking this aspect too much. 

Many tow dollies have surge brakes, which only brake based on how much you are slowing. I'd imagine using the engine brake descending a hill will probably not trigger those surge brakes, and even if it did, the brakes would pull the dolly back off the surge trigger. 

As for whether you have enough power, the extra weight will make you slower when ascending grades. But our 97 Windsor is 275hp factory with a Banks kit (maybe pushing 320-330 max), and I have dragged a 4200 lb Jeep Cherokee. about 20K miles, crossing the country 3x, and on the steepest, longest grades, we're still faster than the slowest trucks. Those long steep grades are a small part of any long trip, and it's fine to just put on your hazards and follow a slow semi at 35 mph up the mountain. You'll get to the top, these big diesels can run WOT for as long as you need. They're under 350 hp with radiators the size of small cars, 1500 lbs of motor, and gallons of oil and coolant.

17 hours ago, Stephen Walsh said:

Gonna UBER, or rent,and e-bike for now 

Can buy a lot of that for what it would cost for a toad and setup

That will restrict the areas you can travel quite a bit.

You'll find those uber costs adding up quick when it's $30 to go to town and $30 to come back, so you can buy $40 in groceries. In many national park areas you may not even be able to get an uber. If you're only going to the most popular areas like Zion and Sedona, it should be fine, but I'd be surprised if you can get an uber in Avenue of the Giants.

Or if the trail you want to see requires you to travel 5 miles on a narrow 2-lane road with no bike lane (the majority of roads near campgrounds in the US), you'll be re-thinking that pretty quickly when the asshole with the pickup truck (it's always pickups) blasts their horn as they pass you as close as they think they can without hitting you, or trying to hit you with their mirror. On a bicycle you should expect that at least once per 10 miles traveled, more often if you're biking in any smallish town. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by jimc99999

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, Stephen Walsh said:

Another question is when using engine brake descending grades with a toad, won’t that overuse the surge brakes on the car dolly saving the coach brakes but burning up the car dolly brakes?

I searched for if the brakes on the 4 wheel down toad will engage while using the engine brake. Some say yes that when the engine brake is on it triggers the coach brake lights. The coach brake lights might engage the 4 wheel toad brakes, and be burning those up while descending as well.

Third option, no brakes on car dolly. Must be under 3000 total lbs and doesn’t sound safe.

Think we will UBER, rent, and or e-bike unless there is a better solution.

 

 

 

 

Engine brake will not trigger any braking system.  AirForce 1 and M&G work off air pressure applied to Motor Home.  So, more service brake applied….more braking from toad.  
 

if you opt for a TOAD braking system, your 7 pin is wired for a control wire up front.  That 5 pin pigtail has all the wiring signals required for all TOAD braking systems that “get” a signal.  The wire can be used with any trailer or dolly braking system.  If you decide, post and one of us will walk you through finding plug and identify the various wires. IT DOES have the “brake light” circuit needed.  No need to hunt and try to figure out where the blankety blank light is.  Some 3 rd beake lights will come on when exhaust energizes…..thus you will damage your toad or trailer brakes.

Flat Towing i# the simplest, otherwise, you got to find a spot for a Dolly or trailer….and the hookup is VERY time consuming.

As to your second question, if I didn’t explain enough.  You use the Monaco hard wired trigger signal.  Service brakes on….as in push down….the proper signal is sent for any systems…..

Don’t forget the Fireproof blanket for the E-bike and park them at night away from motor home.

 

[Agpopp]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:29 AM, Stephen Walsh said:

Will the rig pull this easily or is it too much weight? The towing capacity lists at 7000lbs

Just wanted to let you know I pulled my 5000 lb. 22 Ram 1500 4x4 crew with my 06 neptune 300 ISB to Florida and back no problem. WV hills obviously slow her down but once I hit NC it's not even noticeable I was towing anything at all. 

As said by another member,  I too had a V10 ford Bounder gas with 460 torque and pulled a 4000 lb ford edge with it. So all things being equal,  it does as well as that set up if you compare 4000 lb/460tq and 5000 lb/600tq. 

As far as the towing hardware,  Craigslist and marketplace will have you a tow bar and brake buddy on the cheap. 

The braking component of your question,  I felt the engine braking/ downshift combination with the allison transmission more than adequate with my RVI Toad Brake set on panic only. 

Your coach is rated at 7k towing as is mine. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Agpopp
More info

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Agpopp said:

Just wanted to let you know I pulled my 5000 lb. 22 Ram 1500 4x4 crew with my 06 neptune 300 ISB to Florida and back no problem. WV hills obviously slow her down but once I hit NC it's not even noticeable I was towing anything at all. 

As said by another member,  I too had a V10 ford Bounder gas with 460 torque and pulled a 4000 lb ford edge with it. So all things being equal,  it does as well as that set up if you compare 4000 lb/460tq and 5000 lb/600tq. 

As far as the towing hardware,  Craigslist and marketplace will have you a tow bar and brake buddy on the cheap. 

The braking component of your question,  I felt the engine braking/ downshift combination with the allison transmission more than adequate with my RVI Toad Brake set on panic only. 

Your coach is rated at 7k towing as is mine. 

Great report.  I saw a Hummer AWD EV bike today.  It weighs 95 pounds…. Special carrier needed for carrying it…or two.  BUT, sticker shock…$4,175…

[cbr046]

11 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Great report.  I saw a Hummer AWD EV bike today.  It weighs 95 pounds…. Special carrier needed for carrying it…or two.  BUT, sticker shock…$4,175…

More sticker shock - that's just the midpoint for EV bikes!

@Agpopp, thanks for the detailed report!  We've had the HR that came with a tow bar for 2+ years now and still don't have it set up.  We just bought a 2021 4-Runner last week that we can put the drivetrain into neutral so maybe that'll be our focus vs the DW's manual shift Mini. 

- bob