multiplex wiring extension

[windsorbill06]

Monaco installed these Multiplex switches in my toilet room cabinet.   Just not the best place for convenience and wrong orientation.

Problem is, my wires inside cabinet are too short to just move the switch to a better location.   Can I just splice in longer wires, use new molex connector, or would this cause issues with the multiplex system?

I know that the switches just send a signal back to the control box, but I don't know enough about the system to just jump in, thus the question.

[DavidL]

There is a technical spec for the max length of wire...but for practical purposes, sure, just splice in wires to make them longer and put the switch pad where it needs to go.  I would just use some solderless connectors, make good crimps and use the same gauge wire.

[windsorbill06]

I didn't mention, I'm only talking about 2-3' of added wire.

[SteveC]

The length of the wire won't really make a difference (unless you go crazy). What will help prevent errors in the multiplex system is to solder the extension wires. I'm sure a crimp connector will work fine for a while, if the connector 'wiggles' even a little in the connector you may get an inconsistent signal back to the controller. Solder with shrink wrap will be a lifetime repair. My 2 cents (for what it is worth).

[Tom Cherry]

totally agree to move the switch.  However, I should be very cautious.  This switch is a custom switch.  All your other MPX switches only have one pigtail, I believe.  Or if they do, then it is a “MPX IN - MPX OUT”.  This switch has a second pigtail that goes directly down to Pump switch, assuming you have one, in the wet bay.  If you do not have a remote, momentary push to start, button in the wet bay, then this is a daisy chained switch.  If you do, then the extra pigtail runs to,that switch.  When you push the remote pump switch. It is the same as pressing the “WTR PUMP” button.  The wires are soldered directly to the contacts behind that button on the PCB. So, do NOT tug or put strain on the extra pigtail.  I BELIEVE that the pigtail with the Purple wire is the MPX connection….there is a MPX loop that runs the entire length around the MH where the switch pads are.  Then a single pigtail is just a “parallel” test.  If you plugged back in the Purple wire and the key pad lights, then it is a parallel switch pad.  The pump will start from the keypad, but the remote will not work.  Best I can recall from that switch in mine was that it was a 2 wire pigtail….the 3 in yours is a bit of a mystery….but Monaco did weird things and were not consistent year to year.

As to the splice…we go down this path a few times a year.  NEC will allow “soldering” of a mechanical or crimped joint.  However, they will not allow strictly a soldered joint.  Now this is obviously low voltage.  I personally would crimp and if one has a belt and suspenders mindset, I would choose a bare, not insulated, crimped fitting (ALWAYS CRIMPED WITH A RATCHETING TOOL) and THEN solder.  Yes, it can be insulated with electrical tape or heat shrink.  

[96 EVO]

Bill, what's a 'COS light' ?

[windsorbill06]

43 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Bill, what's a 'COS light' ?

Ben,

I believe it's short for 'cosmetic'.   It controls the wall light fixture above the sink.  Other bath sink has the same label.   

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

totally agree to move the switch.  However, I should be very cautious.  This switch is a custom switch.  All your other MPX switches only have one pigtail, I believe.  Or if they do, then it is a “MPX IN - MPX OUT”.  This switch has a second pigtail that goes directly down to Pump switch, assuming you have one, in the wet bay.  If you do not have a remote, momentary push to start, button in the wet bay, then this is a daisy chained switch.  If you do, then the extra pigtail runs to,that switch.  When you push the remote pump switch. It is the same as pressing the “WTR PUMP” button.  The wires are soldered directly to the contacts behind that button on the PCB. So, do NOT tug or put strain on the extra pigtail.  I BELIEVE that the pigtail with the Purple wire is the MPX connection….there is a MPX loop that runs the entire length around the MH where the switch pads are.  Then a single pigtail is just a “parallel” test.  If you plugged back in the Purple wire and the key pad lights, then it is a parallel switch pad.  The pump will start from the keypad, but the remote will not work.  Best I can recall from that switch in mine was that it was a 2 wire pigtail….the 3 in yours is a bit of a mystery….but Monaco did weird things and were not consistent year to year.

As to the splice…we go down this path a few times a year.  NEC will allow “soldering” of a mechanical or crimped joint.  However, they will not allow strictly a soldered joint.  Now this is obviously low voltage.  I personally would crimp and if one has a belt and suspenders mindset, I would choose a bare, not insulated, crimped fitting (ALWAYS CRIMPED WITH A RATCHETING TOOL) and THEN solder.  Yes, it can be insulated with electrical tape or heat shrink.  

Tom,

I do have the water pump switch in the wet bay.  Momentary, ON/OFF.    All the others are the multiplex style. 

 

[96 EVO]

Got it!

Mine are labeled 'Vanity light'.

[windsorbill06]

I'm struggling with the best location for the pad.  That room is pretty small, I'd like to put it on the wall next to the sink, but I'm concerned about water splashing on it.    Maybe up high?

Anybody post some pictures of your switch location in that toilet room?

I could put it on the wall, directly outside the door- in the hall.  Not too convenient if you're using the toilet and forgot to turn on the water pump, however. 

Edited April 15, 2023 by windsorbill06

[Tom Cherry]

51 minutes ago, windsorbill06 said:

Ben,

I believe it's short for 'cosmetic'.   It controls the wall light fixture above the sink.  Other bath sink has the same label.   

Tom,

I do have the water pump switch in the wet bay.  Momentary, ON/OFF.    All the others are the multiplex style. 

 

THAT would have been my gut guess, but with Monaco, you never know.  Move the blankety blank thing.  Use TLC and crimp (THEN solder if you have additional concerns) and you will be good to go.  Someone may chime in as to why you have 3 wires (and maybe my memory is faulty) and the later only had two...

Have at it...  Let us know how it goes.

[96 EVO]

[windsorbill06]

27 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

thanks Ben.

So you also have to reach across the room to turn on the lights when you walk in..  But yours are up higher.  We've got to bend over to see the switches that are mounted in the lower cabinet (basically where your night light is).  Like I said, perfect when your on the toilet, but that's it!

[96 EVO]

Yeah, it works for us, at least I've heard no complaints!

We have friends that recently went from a Tiffin, to a Monaco Monark, and I struggled to find the bathroom light switch in both of them!

[windsorbill06]

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

totally agree to move the switch.  However, I should be very cautious.  This switch is a custom switch.  All your other MPX switches only have one pigtail, I believe.  Or if they do, then it is a “MPX IN - MPX OUT”.  This switch has a second pigtail that goes directly down to Pump switch, assuming you have one, in the wet bay.  If you do not have a remote, momentary push to start, button in the wet bay, then this is a daisy chained switch.  If you do, then the extra pigtail runs to,that switch.  When you push the remote pump switch. It is the same as pressing the “WTR PUMP” button.  The wires are soldered directly to the contacts behind that button on the PCB. So, do NOT tug or put strain on the extra pigtail.  I BELIEVE that the pigtail with the Purple wire is the MPX connection….there is a MPX loop that runs the entire length around the MH where the switch pads are.  Then a single pigtail is just a “parallel” test.  If you plugged back in the Purple wire and the key pad lights, then it is a parallel switch pad.  The pump will start from the keypad, but the remote will not work.  Best I can recall from that switch in mine was that it was a 2 wire pigtail….the 3 in yours is a bit of a mystery….but Monaco did weird things and were not consistent year to year.

As to the splice…we go down this path a few times a year.  NEC will allow “soldering” of a mechanical or crimped joint.  However, they will not allow strictly a soldered joint.  Now this is obviously low voltage.  I personally would crimp and if one has a belt and suspenders mindset, I would choose a bare, not insulated, crimped fitting (ALWAYS CRIMPED WITH A RATCHETING TOOL) and THEN solder.  Yes, it can be insulated with electrical tape or heat shrink.  

Tom,

You were right on.  The only difference is the pigtails.  The red/yellow/black wired one is the main controls for this switch.  The pigtail with the purple wire controls the momentary water pump switch in wet bay.   Thanks for the help and insight.

 

6 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, it works for us, at least I've heard no complaints!

We have friends that recently went from a Tiffin, to a Monaco Monark, and I struggled to find the bathroom light switch in both of them!

My son's new 5ver/toy box, is that way.   Helped him with some non electrical issues.   But I couldn't find the switches for interior lights just so I could see.  Turns out, it's on the display touch pad on the wall or on his IPad.  

[DavidL]

Personally, I would put a motion sensor to a "good" automation system that knows if it's dark or light out and automatically turn on that light circuit if dark and if motion....

[Tom Cherry]

3 minutes ago, DavidL said:

Personally, I would put a motion sensor to a "good" automation system that knows if it's dark or light out and automatically turn on that light circuit if dark and if motion....

OR...use a Day/Night LED plug in nightlight in the outlet.  That way, you can find the bathroom at night without fumbling with switches and waking up loved ones....

Unfortunately, trying to integrate a motion sensor in to the circuit, might be a little more than one wants to try.  It would take a momentary contact "dry contact" module that makes a circuit.  OPPS...if the light was ON and you walked in, then it would go OFF.  The MPX is based on a "TOGGLE ON or TOGGLE OFF", so the logic would be that IF there is a LIGHT on...then it does NOT close the momentary contact.  BUT if the light is on, it does.  That would be a photo cell function and then the motion sensor would have to work.  We have many that could make an iPad with some hardware do that....but the trick is to have the momentary contact to activate...  Then, you would have to solder in leads to the proper light switch and mount the chip or module on the wall.

BUT we do have folks that could do it....without mentioning names....LOL...

[Ivan K]

We have a motion red light that lights the bowel, all I need at night to see the target eventhough the regular switches are right at the door. 🤣 Simple.

[windsorbill06]

20 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

We have a motion red light that lights the bowel, all I need at night to see the target eventhough the regular switches are right at the door. 🤣 Simple.

I hope you meant 'bowl'.    Otherwise I'm not sure how you'd do that! lol

[Ivan K]

26 minutes ago, windsorbill06 said:

I hope you meant 'bowl'.    Otherwise I'm not sure how you'd do that! lol

Haha, right! Darn, one letter makes a big difference in imagination. 

[96 EVO]

1 minute ago, Ivan K said:

Haha, right! Darn, one letter makes a big difference in imagination. 

Hey, I'm just glad I read Bill's post before 'Happy Hour' began, otherwise I'd still be cleaning my laptop 😂!

[windsorbill06]

Finally got the project behind me.  I've never liked reaching across the toilet room, bending down to turn on the lights.   I wanted to get the switches closer to the doorway.

My toilet room is quite small.  There is just no room to move the switch unless you put in on the wall, but it's just too close to the sink for my comfort.  Water splashing on the key pad was a big concern.   Only way to get it closer to door was to put it up higher on wall, which is fine by me.  Since Monaco put in wall blocking (similar to fire stops in stick built house), mainly to attach back splashes to wall, it took a little creativity to get the new wires to location I wanted  Had to dismantle interior upper cabinet to install the new wire runs as I didn't want anything visible.   Took about 8 hours over 3 days to get everything finished, but happy with results.  Wish I took more pictures.

[Happycarz]

Bill, 

Very nice work, especially the trim piece to cover old switch hole.  Like the old BASF commercial, “We don’t make it, we make it better.” 
 

Well done, sir.

[windsorbill06]

thanks Harry.

 

That picture doesn't give it justice, it makes the wood  looks blotchy.  The finish is a perfect match, however.  

[96 EVO]

2 minutes ago, windsorbill06 said:

thanks Harry.

 

That picture doesn't give it justice, it makes the wood  looks blotchy.  The finish is a perfect match, however.  

Funny, I thought the same thing when the website automatically lowered the resolution of my pic.

[windsorbill06]

44 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Funny, I thought the same thing when the website automatically lowered the resolution of my pic.

Ben, I never thought of that.  Usually this thing takes great shots.  I know the lighting in that room was kinda poor.    I thought it was the loose nut that was holding  the phone.