Maintenance Free Flooded Starting Batteries - Any Concerns with Float Charging??

[Bill R]

I am needing to replace my Group 31 starting batteries.  I am looking at Sam's Duracell 1170 CCA, they are maintenance free batteries.  Should I have any concern using a maintenance free battery?  My coach stays in storage on shore power for about 9 months out of the year and is float charging the house and chassis batteries through the Magnum Charger and BIRD system.  Any concerns I should have?    

[Scotty Hutto]

I’ve had those exact batteries for about three years and not a moment’s problem out of them.  

[Tom Cherry]

Yes and No.  A “maintenance free” battery has a tiny hole or vent.  Basically both the house deep cycle and starting batteries are “flooded” cells.  Buggy Whip.  Not an AGM.

RARELY these days do you find a “has cell fill caps” starting battery.  But never buy a “maintenance free” deep cycle battery.  You need to add electrolyte to a deep cycle.  In a car, a has cell caps battery requires adding and folks don’t have a clue…..and the battery is in the hot engine’s compartment and tends to “boil” off the Distilled Water in the electrolyte faster….

A maintenance free battery, if you are ingenious enough can usually be opened and folk have added DW to them.

I am a fan of Interstate starting batteries and Trojan T-105 deep cycle.  I have found that I can buy the Interstate M-31HD batteries cheaper from and Interstate distributor for less than a lower Cold Cranking Amp (CCA) end Interstate battery from Costco.

BOTTOM LINE.  you need a 900 CCA (Some are 950) battery. They make a 750 CCA in Group 31.  Avoid them.  

NEXT….Scotty is right.  Your alternator charges your chassis Batteries and the voltage regulator is fine.  When fully charged, the Alternator “shuts off”.  That is the equivalent of “Float Charging” from your Magnum.  Can”t remember the exact circuitry or maybe you made changes, if your Inverter charges the Chassis, then the Magnum does a much better job or is easier on the Battery than is your engine alternator.
 

 Within the past 10 years, all the car alternators have “variable voltage” charging systems.  This is now the equivalent of “Bulk; Absorb; Float” technology that your Magnum uses.  Way better than your engine and alternator.  If it was something that was easy to do, I would run my generator all the time and let my Magnum charge the chassis batteries.  They would, in theory, last longer.

SO…buy the maintenance free 900 CCA batteries.  NAPA Exide has a good reputation.  I shy away for big box batteries as they are usually not “rated” as high or if they are the same, my Interstate distributor sells then cheaper.  Same goes for deep cycle…just my personal experience.

I was asked to write this by some folks.  Might be good reading….yes…it is long….LOL!

 

 

 

[96 EVO]

My first pair were constantly float charged for close to 9yrs, and were turning over the Cummins fine when I retired them.

New pair last year. I 'Did' disconnect them using the BIRD module before equalize charging the house bank, which I intend to continue doing.

I'm also considering removing the sealed caps at about the 3yr mark on this set, and watering if needed!

[Tom Cherry]

29 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

My first pair were constantly float charged for close to 9yrs, and were turning over the Cummins fine when I retired them.

New pair last year. I 'Did' disconnect them using the BIRD module before equalize charging the house bank, which I intend to continue doing.

I'm also considering removing the sealed caps at about the 3yr mark on this set, and watering if needed!

FROM the Trojan Battery Website….. REALLY Comprehensive and lots of good stuff on maintenance and discharging and how to prolong life….

https://www.trojanbattery.com/resources/battery-maintenance

Here is one cut and paste.  I have talked to Trojan tech support at least 10 times over the years to learn or ask a question…..so they always say….not recommended….and this is the text….

BUT….each can and will do what they believe is best….  Many of us use Pulse Technology “desulfanization” devices.  I have one on the Chassis and two on the House.  Trojan said if I continue to exercise (discharge and recharge 2 - 3 times per year), that will do more to prolong battery life than my devices….but to keep them.  Note.  Batteries should be in storage with power or recharged fully every 3 weeks as the process minutely discharges.  I now only use supplemental maintainers with a desulfonization feature 

  
FLOODED BATTERIES ONLY

Equalizing is an overcharge performed on flooded lead acid batteries after they have been fully charged.

It reverses the buildup of negative chemical effects like stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top. Equalizing also helps to remove sulfate crystals that might have built up on the plates. If left unchecked, this condition, called sulfation, will reduce the overall capacity of the battery.

Many experts recommend that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends equalizing when low or wide ranging specific gravity (>0.030) are detected after fully charging a battery.

[Bill R]

3 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

I’ve had those exact batteries for about three years and not a moment’s problem out of them.  

Thank you for sharing your personal experience Scotty.  That is a great data point.  Do you also keep these batteries on float charge most of the time?  The reason I am so paranoid about float charge is that these maintenance free batteries still vent and I am concerned that a constant charge will overtime boil off some water.  I may be showing my ignorance of batteries, so I am wide open to correction on my paranoia.

 

3 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

I'm also considering removing the sealed caps at about the 3yr mark on this set, and watering if needed!

Ben I am presuming you had 9 years of the maintenance free batteries?  What brand were they?  Interesting concept about removing the sealed caps.  Any experience with that before?

 

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Many of us use Pulse Technology “desulfanization” devices.

Thank you Tom for all the information.  I too have the Power Pulse based on the recommendations of you and others on the forum.  I have been taking note of a lot of your previous posts about maintaining flooded batteries and that is why I am moving from AGM.   I have six years on the AGM's and they need replacing.  From everything I read I hope to get the same life or more from flooded at a much lower cost with the correct maintenance as you lay out.  

[Tom Cherry]

34 minutes ago, Bill R said:

Thank you for sharing your personal experience Scotty.  That is a great data point.  Do you also keep these batteries on float charge most of the time?  The reason I am so paranoid about float charge is that these maintenance free batteries still vent and I am concerned that a constant charge will overtime boil off some water.  I may be showing my ignorance of batteries, so I am wide open to correction on my paranoia.

 

Ben I am presuming you had 9 years of the maintenance free batteries?  What brand were they?  Interesting concept about removing the sealed caps.  Any experience with that before?

 

Thank you Tom for all the information.  I too have the Power Pulse based on the recommendations of you and others on the forum.  I have been taking note of a lot of your previous posts about maintaining flooded batteries and that is why I am moving from AGM.   I have six years on the AGM's and they need replacing.  From everything I read I hope to get the same life or more from flooded at a much lower cost with the correct maintenance as you lay out.  

You seem to have “it”.  Always rewarding to help and teach….good luck. Good decision

[Scotty Hutto]

20 hours ago, Bill R said:

Thank you for sharing your personal experience Scotty.  That is a great data point.  Do you also keep these batteries on float charge most of the time?  The reason I am so paranoid about float charge is that these maintenance free batteries still vent and I am concerned that a constant charge will overtime boil off some water.  I may be showing my ignorance of batteries, so I am wide open to correction on my paranoia.

I mis-read your note and mis-spoke. 🤦🏻‍♂️  I have the Sam’s Duracell group 31 AGM batteries; not the maintenance-free lead acid batteries.  

FWIW, I do have them on “Float” all the time, but realize you’re asking about a different animal  🦔 

I likely won’t go back to flooded cell. I’ve had too many issues with them over the years and 2 different coaches (likely self-inflicted, for the most part)

My next house batteries will either be AGM (again) or Li-PO4 (the ones that don’t catch on fire.  CORRECTION: The ones NOT subject to thermal runaway like the NCA batteries most electric vehicle manufacturers use.) Li-PO4 will require a new inverter.  My next staring batteries will be AGM  

Part of the wisdom of growing older is learning one’s self….  I have learned that two things I don’t “gee and haw” with are Fescue grass and lead-acid flooded batteries. 

[Tom Cherry]

5 minutes ago, Scotty Hutto said:

I mis-read your note and mis-spoke. 🤦🏻‍♂️  I have the Sam’s Duracell group 31 AGM batteries; not the maintenance-free lead acid batteries.  

FWIW, I do have them on “Float” all the time, but realize you’re asking about a different animal  🦔 

I likely won’t go back to flooded cell. I’ve had too many issues with them over the years and 2 different coaches (likely self-inflicted, for the most part)

My next batteries will either be AGM (again) or Li-PO4 (the ones that don’t catch on fire). Li-PO4 will require a new inverter.  

Part of the wisdom of growing older is learning one’s self….  I have learned that two things I don’t “gee and haw” with are Fescue grass and lead-acid flooded batteries. 

Different strokes for different folks….LOL…. I respect your wishes.  As to FESCUE…..SIMPLE as going AGM…  read and do likewise…..

I  was top dog in the neighborhood for a few years as to “Fescue”.  Folks with high $$ lawn service’s lusted.  Got sloppy.  Got lazy.  DW decreed we were going to have only ONE green variety growing in our yard….and wire grass and crab grass (already well entrenched) were squatters.  We had it turfed.  The grass was so thick AND  absorbed so much moisture that my 15 HP REAL John Deere didn’t have sufficient traction on the ditch banks and I needed a seat belt or a roll cage.  Two mowings….one with a 36” rider and one with a self propelled 22” were disastrous.. Just keeping the self propelled mower pointed straight was a chore.

My landscaping contractor took pity and then mowed it and let me try his $4,000 Pro Walk Behind 40” Toro.  Just muscling it in the confines or hills and drainage ditches and such was tiring….  OK, he took over and mowed and then his crew string trimmed and  edged and blew off the driveway and our hardscaped back yard and paths and deck.  It LOOKED UNBELIEVABLE.  Within a few days, I debated….new walk behind and tuning up the edger, trimmer and blower and a days job….every week.  Actually it was to be mowed TWICE every 10 days then.  OR…negotiate an annual contract….since he was going to do all the weed killing, pre-emergent, fungicide, aerating, reseeding anyway….and we were discussing prices.  GUESS what….his crew mows and maintains and DW is happy.

LEST some think I am old and feeble and a wimp.  I moved over 100 CY of mulch and dumped it using a 6 CF contractor’s wheelbarrow.  I helped DW level and spread it.  I excavated a 100 ft x 4 ft wide “path” and a 35 ft diameter fire pit patio. And a 20 ft diameter Pergala pad….as well as 150 ft X 5 ft wide drainage ditches.  We put rip rap and decorative stone and lined each one with landscaping bricks…3 pallets of bricks….

Used my utility trailer and hauled in at least 15 - 20 CY of stone or 1.25 TONS per CY.  Unloaded every speck into my wheelbarrow and dumped and spread it out.  

Took less than 3 weeks to complete…so I worked 6 hours per day….or more.  OPPS, BTW, I also had, earlier, overhauled my irrigation and dug up almost 150 ft of pipe (12” down) and replumbed and replaced the control wiring…..just as a warm up to the hardscaping work….

BUT….giving my wife a year round yard service and she is enjoying  her GREEN, Fescue ONLY grass….PRICELESS….

NOW YOU HAVE A SOLUTION….LOL

[96 EVO]

Yep, 9 years with a pair of Interstate sealed 950CCA batteries. They were still turning over the engine, or generator well.

I have no experience removing the caps on sealed batteries, but I know others do this to extend the life.

With them getting bulk charged along with the house bank (whether they need it or not), I would think they have to be losing a bit of liquid off gassing.

Edited July 23, 2023 by 96 EVO

[David Pratt]

My Foretravel ih-45 has all AGM batteries including the chassis batteries. In the past ten years most of your higher end coaches have all gone to AGM 's compltely and do not install Lead Acid batteries anymore.  As part of my yearly maintenance schedule I do a Load Test of all the AGM's. When the batteries are tested in their resting SOC they all have remained constant at 13.5vdc+/- each year.

My 05 Exec has the Duracell AGM's and the new owner has had no issues with those batteries. When your batteries are in Float Charge they are drawing less than 2.5 amps to maintain their charge.

There is no such Lithium battery that will not catch on fire under the right conditions.  Lithium Batteries should never be used as a starting battery. A Lithium Battery cannot handle the High Current Discharge AMP Load that is need to start a Diesel engine or any engine. My BIL just took delivery of a 2024 Entegra Cornerstane. As part of the purchase Entegra was to replace the flooded cell batteries with AGM's at the Factory in Elkhart. The Factory forgot to do it and the dealer was given the task to replace them. The Dealer made the mistake of replacing the Flooded Cell Batteries with Lithium instead of AGM's.  After several times starting the coach with no issue, recently, we were at a campground and when he went to start his coach to reposition it, he heard a pop and all the power to the coach died. On trouble shooting the problem, I found the high limit breakers open. Further inspection revealed that one of the Lithium Batteries was completely discharge and swollen. I believe that the high limit CB's prevented a very disastrous out come. I instructed my BIL to not try to start the coach. The dealer would not admit to making the mistake and it took over two days of arguing with the dealer and Entegra to  send some one to replace the batteries with AGM's

Lithium Batteries do not have a CCA rating. Never use them as Chassis Batteries.

My experience from this issue is the manufactures are producing junk, they do not do to what they agree and the dealers do not give a crap and do not have the Technical Expertise to fix them.