2005 Dynasty 400 ISL engine break issue

[RIPPPA]

So I don’t think my Engine Break on my 2005 Dynasty is working properly. This is a salvage engine we installed last year. I drove it to Colorado last summer without the engine break working. Took it back to the shop and got the break working I thought. I got it back this Jan. Driving it home it would down shift when I turned the switch on. I don’t live near any mountains so I not east to test. I took it to Oklahoma last weekend and drove it on some small mountains. It does down shift but I don’t feel any braking like what I think a Jake should do. Plus when I get up to 2800 rpm the trans will upshift causing you to brake to slow the Coach down enough to down shift again. I would live it if I knew how. Can you give me some insight?

I’m up for working on if you have ideas where to start or  Do you guys have any recommendations for good repair shops around the Dallas/Ft. Worth area? I have been in touch with Luxury Coach Service in Rockwall Tx but was wondering if there was any other options. 

TIA Tim

[BradHend]

PAC brake or VGT turbo?

[Ivan K]

You should definitely feel and hear the Jake, especially in High. No hills needed to test that, just hit it at speed. Mine downshifts to 4th (programmable) but it has to be at safe RPM after the downshift to do so. My red line is 2300 and I stub the service brake when it can't keep under ~2000 down hill. Your 2800 is sky high for me,  obviously a different engine but I never let it to force upshift. The VGT turbo also plays a role but you would know if it had a problem. There is an electrical connection to solenoids under the valve cover, there could be an oil leak in the pressurized jake blocks so if it really doesn't work, there are multiple possibilities.

[Guest Ray Davis]

Did you have an engine ( aka ) Jake brake on the original engine?   Are you reasonably certain this engine is equipped with a Jake brake and it's not an exhaust brake?

What engine do you have?  As Ivan said, with a Jake brake you'll know if it's working, but with an exhaust brake not so much.  Also,  a Jake brake will have a high and low switch.

[MyronTruex]

If it is an exhaust brake, there is a procedure in my owners manual on how to lube it and what high temp lube to use. I tried to find my exhaust brake until I was exhausted as well. Found out I have a VRT and not an exhaust brake. Mine is a 2008. 

[Bill R]

@RIPPPA another thing to look at is your ECM settings for the engine brake.  Since you got a salvage engine.  Someone with the Insite software could check those for you. 

[Guest Ray Davis]

I hope the OP comes back because even tho most of us will never replace an engine these topics are incredibly interesting.  If he doesn't know all the answers to our questions, that's okay, we learn a lot anyway.  We'll figure it out.  There are some really smart guys on here, not me but they're here reading this.  Bill Rogers brings up the ECM, I didn't think about it,  I supposed he was using his original ECM, but maybe not what if the used engine had an ECM on it and that's in the RV?    It's not like the old shade tree days when they used a chain hoist and shade tree to pull the motor out of the farm truck and dropped in another one.  There's a lot to consider about these electronic marvels of today.

[RIPPPA]

16 hours ago, BradHend said:

PAC brake or VGT turbo?

Jake brake I believe. 

2 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

I hope the OP comes back because even tho most of us will never replace an engine these topics are incredibly interesting.  If he doesn't know all the answers to our questions, that's okay, we learn a lot anyway.  We'll figure it out.  There are some really smart guys on here, not me but they're here reading this.  Bill Rogers brings up the ECM, I didn't think about it,  I supposed he was using his original ECM, but maybe not what if the used engine had an ECM on it and that's in the RV?    It's not like the old shade tree days when they used a chain hoist and shade tree to pull the motor out of the farm truck and dropped in another one.  There's a lot to consider about these electronic marvels of today.

I am using my original ECM. 

3 hours ago, Bill R said:

@RIPPPA another thing to look at is your ECM settings for the engine brake.  Since you got a salvage engine.  Someone with the Insite software could check those for you. 

I’ll keep that in mind. Thanks. 

15 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

Did you have an engine ( aka ) Jake brake on the original engine?   Are you reasonably certain this engine is equipped with a Jake brake and it's not an exhaust brake?

What engine do you have?  As Ivan said, with a Jake brake you'll know if it's working, but with an exhaust brake not so much.  Also,  a Jake brake will have a high and low switch.

Yes I had a Jake brake in the original engine and this salvage engine was a direct match to the original engine. 

16 hours ago, RIPPPA said:

So I don’t think my Engine Break on my 2005 Dynasty is working properly. This is a salvage engine we installed last year. I drove it to Colorado last summer without the engine break working. Took it back to the shop and got the break working I thought. I got it back this Jan. Driving it home it would down shift when I turned the switch on. I don’t live near any mountains so I not east to test. I took it to Oklahoma last weekend and drove it on some small mountains. It does down shift but I don’t feel any braking like what I think a Jake should do. Plus when I get up to 2800 rpm the trans will upshift causing you to brake to slow the Coach down enough to down shift again. I would live it if I knew how. Can you give me some insight?

I’m up for working on if you have ideas where to start or  Do you guys have any recommendations for good repair shops around the Dallas/Ft. Worth area? I have been in touch with Luxury Coach Service in Rockwall Tx but was wondering if there was any other options. 

TIA Tim

Sorry it’s a Cummins 400 ISL engine. 

[RIPPPA]

Anymore thoughts?

[BradHend]

You haven’t quite told us for certain what you have, just what you think.  Have a look and see.  My manual clearly states I have a PAC brake and lists all the maintenance for it.  I don’t have a PAC brake, I have a VGT turbo..

[RIPPPA]

2 minutes ago, BradHend said:

You haven’t quite told us for certain what you have, just what you think.  Have a look and see.  My manual clearly states I have a PAC brake and lists all the maintenance for it.  I don’t have a PAC brake, I have a VGT turbo..

I have a Jake Brake inside the valve cover  what else do you want to know? cover. What else would you like to know?

Edited July 30, 2023 by RIPPPA

[BradHend]

Not crazy familiar with Jake brakes, but I do know there’s a fuse to check - just starting with the basics - and if you said you changed the engine, I recall reading something about the engine idle speed and engine oil level.  Are they both reasonable?

Edited July 30, 2023 by BradHend

[RIPPPA]

6 minutes ago, BradHend said:

Not crazy familiar with Jake brakes, but I do know there’s a fuse to check - just starting with the basics - and if you said you changed the engine, I recall reading something about the engine idle speed and engine oil level.  Are they both reasonable?

Yes, idle is fine and I just checked all fluids today. I’m gone to check fuses tmw morning. It won’t be 105 degrees  then. 

[BradHend]

Well good luck Tim.  I’ll be curious to know how you make out. 

[Ivan K]

My thoughts are that since the tranny downshifts, your switch (or pedal, which ever you have) works. My Jake fuse is in the pedal circuit so that fact would eliminate it for me. Unless you are willing to check for Jake and selector signals on ECM connector, I think you need to have Insite hooked up to it to confirm that side of it.  If that checks out and the parms are set right, you still need to check for output of the ECM to Jake solenoids that supposed to open passage of pressurized oil to operate the valves. Like I said earlier, a number of possible causes. Even simply checking for signal at the pass-through connector into the valve overhead while stationary would likely not prove anything if the Jake is programmed to only operate over certain speed.

I know the Rockwall Luxury place has a lot of big rigs under their roof but I am just skeptical about RV places working on engines. Sorry, have no other recommendations, never been to any shop. I live not far, when home, have a computer hookup but only for a six-pin and ours is a different engine too.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ivan K

[RIPPPA]

9 hours ago, Ivan K said:

My thoughts are that since the tranny downshifts, your switch (or pedal, which ever you have) works. My Jake fuse is in the pedal circuit so that fact would eliminate it for me. Unless you are willing to check for Jake and selector signals on ECM connector, I think you need to have Insite hooked up to it to confirm that side of it.  If that checks out and the parms are set right, you still need to check for output of the ECM to Jake solenoids that supposed to open passage of pressurized oil to operate the valves. Like I said earlier, a number of possible causes. Even simply checking for signal at the pass-through connector into the valve overhead while stationary would likely not prove anything if the Jake is programmed to only operate over certain speed.

I know the Rockwall Luxury place has a lot of big rigs under their roof but I am just skeptical about RV places working on engines. Sorry, have no other recommendations, never been to any shop. I live not far, when home, have a computer hookup but only for a six-pin and ours is a different engine too.

I have a few other items to check. If they fail I guest my only other option would be Cummins but I hate to go there. Maybe I can find a good shop around. We’ll see. Thanks

[Bob R]

I know that I would not be comfortable tackling this problem myself. I have used a shop in the Fort Worth area for similar problems with success. The shop is a truck shop. It is Industrial Power. They are authorized dealers and service for Cummins and Allison equipment. They have been reasonably priced and knowledgeable about my 400ISL and Allison 3000. I believe they are an Izuzu truck facility. You might google the shop for more info. I know they use the insite diagnostic equipment. They provided me with an electronic copy of my engines ECM programming.

Contact info for Industrial Power is 817-834-7473. Address is 712 N Beach Street, Fort Worth, TX 76111.

[beemerman]

You could check to see if your jakes are working by sending 12v to the wires that plug on the valve cover spacer.  The pic you posted has one of the wires circled, there are two of them.  One is for the front 3 cyl and the other is for the rear 3 cyl.  Unplug the wire and put 12v to the connection one at a time and you should hear the jake come on and the engine run rough.  That will at least tell you if the problem is under the valve cover or not getting power to the valve cover. Its a good way to diagnose the problem and won't hurt a thing.

[RIPPPA]

2 hours ago, beemerman said:

You could check to see if your jakes are working by sending 12v to the wires that plug on the valve cover spacer.  The pic you posted has one of the wires circled, there are two of them.  One is for the front 3 cyl and the other is for the rear 3 cyl.  Unplug the wire and put 12v to the connection one at a time and you should hear the jake come on and the engine run rough.  That will at least tell you if the problem is under the valve cover or not getting power to the valve cover. It’s a good way to diagnose the problem and won't hurt a thing.

I just did this. The rear wire has power the front one does not. 

5 hours ago, Bob R said:

I know that I would not be comfortable tackling this problem myself. I have used a shop in the Fort Worth area for similar problems with success. The shop is a truck shop. It is Industrial Power. They are authorized dealers and service for Cummins and Allison equipment. They have been reasonably priced and knowledgeable about my 400ISL and Allison 3000. I believe they are an Izuzu truck facility. You might google the shop for more info. I know they use the insite diagnostic equipment. They provided me with an electronic copy of my engines ECM programming.

Contact info for Industrial Power is 817-834-7473. Address is 712 N Beach Street, Fort Worth, TX 76111.

Thanks for the info. I will call them tomorrow. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by RIPPPA

[RIPPPA]

6 hours ago, beemerman said:

You could check to see if your jakes are working by sending 12v to the wires that plug on the valve cover spacer.  The pic you posted has one of the wires circled, there are two of them.  One is for the front 3 cyl and the other is for the rear 3 cyl.  Unplug the wire and put 12v to the connection one at a time and you should hear the jake come on and the engine run rough.  That will at least tell you if the problem is under the valve cover or not getting power to the valve cover. Its a good way to diagnose the problem and won't hurt a thing.

 

6 hours ago, beemerman said:

You could check to see if your jakes are working by sending 12v to the wires that plug on the valve cover spacer.  The pic you posted has one of the wires circled, there are two of them.  One is for the front 3 cyl and the other is for the rear 3 cyl.  Unplug the wire and put 12v to the connection one at a time and you should hear the jake come on and the engine run rough.  That will at least tell you if the problem is under the valve cover or not getting power to the valve cover. Its a good way to diagnose the problem and won't hurt a thing.

Sorry I misunderstood. I’ll try that tmw if I can figure out a way to connect the the plugs. 

[RIPPPA]

On 7/30/2023 at 5:16 PM, RIPPPA said:

I just did this. The rear wire has power the front one does not. 

Thanks for the info. I will call them tomorrow. 

Thanks. I dropped my coach off at Industrial Power yesterday. They are 15 days behind. The waiting game begins.