Malfunctioning kitchen slide control. 1997 Windsor. Help appreciated

[rccook]

97 Windsor kitchen slide will go both directions but I have to change  wires at the switch.  Wiring diagram shows different wires than what I have at switch. Don't understand the system .  Does motor reverse or is there a solinoid changing direction of slide? Any help would be appreciated.

[Dr4Film]

I assume that you are referring to an electric slide motor versus a hydraulic slide motor.

I believe that the 12 VDC slide motor will run in either direction depending on the polarity of the positive and negative power supply wires. To go in one direction you would have the positive and negative wires attached one way then for the motor to run in the opposite direction the positive and negative wires would have to be reversed. Hence they use a dual momentary switch to accomplish that task.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Dr4Film

[waterskier_1]

My 05 Exec electric slide is as Richard stated.  It has a control board with two relays that switch both the positive and negative. The motor turns in both directions. 

  - Rick N 

[rccook]

Thanks for reply. The dual momentary switch is shown in manual but the wires on switch are different. There is a yellow wire from the lock out ,I believe, that is not shown on print at switch and no jumper on green power wire. I can understand how the switch changes polarity on the diagram but can't figure it out with the wires. Been getting by changing wires but having switch hanging out is crazy.

[Ivan K]

So is it an electric or hydraulic slide?

[Dr4Film]

14 minutes ago, rccook said:

Thanks for reply. The dual momentary switch is shown in manual but the wires on switch are different. There is a yellow wire from the lock out ,I believe, that is not shown on print at switch and no jumper on green power wire. I can understand how the switch changes polarity on the diagram but can't figure it out with the wires. Been getting by changing wires but having switch hanging out is crazy.

I would rewire the switch back to the way it was when it left the factory. Holding the switch in direction will open the slide, Holding the switch in the opposite direction will close the slide. It's just a matter of getting the correct wires onto the right terminals of the switch.

Maybe someone can sketch out a diagram of the wires for you. Basically they have to Cris-cross from the center two lugs where the power comes in.

What wires do you have now at the switch and how many lugs are on your switch?

[waterskier_1]

Do you have a relay control board under you bed that the switch connect to which in turn controls the motor?  If it is like mine, the wiring is not straight forward, even though the function is.  I'm leaving for dinner right now (@Monaco International Rally)  but I'll see if I can access my server after dinner and post wiring diagrams for my coach. Yours may be similar. 

  - Rick N 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

I assume that you are referring to an electric slide motor versus a hydraulic slide motor.

I believe that the 12 VDC slide motor will run in either direction depending on the polarity of the positive and negative power supply wires. To go in one direction you would have the positive and negative wires attached one way then for the motor to run in the opposite direction the positive and negative wires would have to be reversed. Hence they use a dual momentary switch to accomplish that task.

Richard, yes…but sometimes NO.  We have had some issues maybe a few months or a year ago.  The Geniuses that design motors, and there are, we found out, many out there, also used a Three wire.  Common…CW on one wire and CCW on the other.  Not to be outdone, the. A designer (Lippert, I believe) had a FOUR WIRE motor and the slide controller was the interface.

Ordinarily, or maybe 90% of the time….yes…a reversing circuit….but that is ONLY for a TWO wire motor…so, knowing the type of motor and the type of controller is a must.  Myself and another staff member spend almost a day on finding the right motor and then, low and behold, we discovered that three different motors were used in the SAME series of a slide…and what you needed had to be specific to what they installed…

Just pointing that out.  Remember the Colonel’s old adage…Monaco never built the same MH, twice…. LOL…

[Dr4Film]

Good information, Tom. Thanks for the clarification on the different type of 12 VDC slide motors.

It's time for the OP to find out what type of slide motor he has, 2 wire, 3 wire or 4 wire.

[Tom Cherry]

Ok….the slide pints are on page 12 and the copy provided has TWO page 12…same print…but near the beginning…That shows “hydraulic”.  Note the drawing was a 1995 or so, but released for many more model years.  You will need to use the rotate function in the Adobe reader.   We need confirmation of the TYPE…

NOW….note that Monaco did not even have a PRINT numbering system.  God save us all.

[Ivan K]

If this is what Richard C actually got in his rig, then it is the same HWH configuration as ours. No unnecessary controllers involved. The motor only turns one way as accomplished by the jumper across half of the switch. If Richard needs to be swapping wires on the switch and all the rest then works, the problem is in the switch. I took ours apart couple of years ago when it had to be pushed real hard (wife complained while i am observing outside), cleaned the internal connections and bent them a bit to make effortless contact. Was gonna get a replacement switch but no need in my case.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Ivan K
Spelling

[96 EVO]

43 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

If this is what Richard C actually got in his rig, then it is the same HWH configuration as ours. No unnecessary controllers involved. The motor only turns one way as accomplished by the jumper across half of the switch. If Richard needs to be swapping wires on the switch and all the rest then works, the problem is in the switch. I took ours apart couple of years ago when it had to be pushed real hard (wife complained while i am observing outside), cleaned the internal connections and bent them a bit to make effortless contact. Was gonna get a replacement switch but no need in my case.

Gota love them $0 fixes 👍!!

[waterskier_1]

Is this issue resolved? From previous post it seems so, but if didn't come from the OP.  I'll consider it closed and no needfor additional wiring diagrams.

  - Rick N 

 

[Tom Cherry]

9 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

Is this issue resolved? From previous post it seems so, but if didn't come from the OP.  I'll consider it closed and no needfor additional wiring diagrams.

  - Rick N 

 

@rccook

@waterskier_1 asks a good question and it addresses a critical issue…one that, unfortunately, is becoming more prevalent.

There seems to be some confusion about exactly what is going on as well as the type of slide you have upfront.  We have very little information in the files on the pre 2000 Windsors.  Many assumptions are made when that happens.  Please update us with the following so that you get the correct help. Need the following 

picture of your slide switch(s)

type of slide system.  Hydraulic or electric.  Can’t access a manual for any 90’s.  Please read the manual and tell us what type.  Odds are there are instructions for emergency operation.  That will specify whether to put a drill on a pump motor or on an electric mechanism.

if you have an electric, there will be a control board to provide the proper voltage (positive or negative) to the motor.

Thanks for understanding, but we’re bogged down due to confusion and lack of information.  Folks want to help.

[rccook]

I'm overwelmed by the great response to my problem.. thanks to all. Should have used this great resource before! Can confirm the system is hydraulic with pump mounted in front next to the leveler pump. (always wondered what that was for!)   Of course the manuel says nothing about this?  I've tried to attach prints from manual and picture of pump setup as well as pic of switch wiring ( unknown if original) The long story of how I got to this point is two years ago I had a rv "tech" come to my house because the coach would not throttle or go into gear. I've owned coach since 99 and done most of maint and repair as DIY. It has 94K miles and has been relatively trouble free. While tech was messing with slide problem I was finding fault in King Control which locked out trans/throttle. Also found short in one of bay doors switches which locked out slide.  Wife was frantic to get to horse show so as long as I could get slide to function, we rolled. Replaced switch but that isn't problem. Slide goes in when green power wire is in middle pin with red on other middle pin. When green is on other middle pin and red or black switched slide goes out. Green wire terminal has possible jumper wire cut off) .  Having brain block on this (maybe senior moment). Or looking at prints too much... THANKS again for help.

slide prints.zip slide pump.eml Switch slide.eml

May not have attached prints and photo correctly. Having trouble opening off site.

[Ivan K]

Does your replacement switch function same as the original? Here is a pic of mine. Dual momentary both up and down. If you post a pic of your wire connections to it. I'd pull mine and compare, there is a chance they used same color coding.

[rccook]

Other than mine is white, six pin .

trying to post pump pic again. 

[96 EVO]

Feel if any of the solenoids on the side of the hyd pump are hot.

If it's the same as mine, the pump only runs one direction, and the proper valves need to be energized for the slide to move a certain direction.

Wrong valve solenoid is energized, pump runs, but slide doesn't move. 

[rccook]

That would be great. Mine has red, green, black,yellow and a jumped grey(white on print). Green is power think grey is ground, red, black Supposed to go to motor.

[Ivan K]

19 minutes ago, rccook said:

Other than mine is white, six pin .

trying to post pump pic again. 

Well. I made an effort but turns out Monaco used black wire for all but the green (motor trigger power source)

All I can say is that you appear to have the correct wire colors, just not necessarily on correct pins. Have you tried to make them match the schematics? BTW, red and green should have 12V each against ground for it to work.

[rccook]

Thanks for looking. According to print in manual, green power wire is connected to outside pin and jumped to other outside pin. Red and black go to center pins. Yellow wire is not on print. What controls solnoids? Wiring off pump motor? Would like to understand system.

[96 EVO]

Ivan would possibly have a better idea as to how yours works as your model years are closer.

I have a controller board taped into the wire harness that controls pump motor, and, individual valve solenoids. 

[Ivan K]

I would go by the diagram posted by Tom. As I said, you must have full 12V on green and red (not against each other but against ground ) and these go on each center position. Grey is looped on green side and provides power to motor solenoid, not ground. As a matter of fact, touching any gray to green should run the motor. Black an yellow go on each side of the red wire and select which valve to open. 

[rccook]

Yes the diagram solved my problem!  Should have looked closer but didn't think a Dynasty system would be on Windsor. Switch is the same. Green and red on middle pins .Black to out solenoid, yellow to in solenoid. Grey looped on gtreen side.  Thank you so much. This has bugged me for two years why I couldn't figure it out. I finally understand the system. Thanks to all.

[Tom Cherry]

6 hours ago, rccook said:

Other than mine is white, six pin .

trying to post pump pic again. 

@rccook

I think we need to stop…review…then proceed.  You uploaded a print for a Motorized slide.  That ain’t the right print.  You have a hydraulic slide.  The way to test this….since you can make it work, open the step cover or the access to the hydraulic system in your picture.  The motor, as best, i can male out, is on the bottom with the red cable,  there is a big (or maybe small) solenoid that turns on the motor.  Put your hand on what you “think” is the motor.  Have your wife do the “wire trick” to operate the slide.  If the motor does not run or make noise, then you have an electric motor.  Once confirmed….then we can proceed.

I’m going out on a limb here….so, here goes.  The print that I uploaded is PROBABLY the correct one…I say that, knowing that I could be wrong, but you have a dual pole, double throw, center off, momentary contact switch (6 wires).  Electric’s typically do not.

NOW…if you look at the print….don’t get confused about the Generator slide….focus on the top right.  This is a circuit that only a Monaco Engineer would design…. The way it works (have a cup of caffeinated coffee)…

Power for the slide to work…which is actually HALF of what is needed comes in (bottom left) to pin 5.  So when you push the button EITHER WAY….that power goes out on pin 4 & 6 and heads directly to the hydraulic system in the top right.  It goes to the small terminal on the bottom (6:00) of the Pump Solenoid.  Then, there is a wire that comes BACK to the switch.  It is on the other side.  It goes to terminal 3.  Now then, lets say you have pushed the switch UP….and I don’t have a clue if Up is out or if UP is in….it Doesn’t matter.  Now there is power from terminal 1 and it boogies off to the solenoid that activates or closes and lets the fluid flow in the proper direction.  WHY""???????  The Pump solenoid MUST be energized….so that is step 1. Then the power is sent back to the switch to determine which way (up or down).

NOW….heads up.  Look at the pump ciruit.  If the parking brake is NOT set and sends the ground signal to the solenoid….pump NO START.  Solenoids can open…but no hydraulic pressure or flow.

The POWER from the door or bay switches and the lock out relay comes in from the bottom.  There will be a moment of silence…

Seriously….until you actually identify which wire(s) from which circuit, i don’t have a clue.

Do that based on the print….and we can then proceed.  As someone pointed out.  Some “modifications” were made to fix things.  Odds are, you may have ANOTHER door/bay switch that is bad….so, that, since the switches are in series….may be the issue.

Good Luck….let us know…

2 hours ago, rccook said:

Yes the diagram solved my problem!  Should have looked closer but didn't think a Dynasty system would be on Windsor. Switch is the same. Green and red on middle pins .Black to out solenoid, yellow to in solenoid. Grey looped on gtreen side.  Thank you so much. This has bugged me for two years why I couldn't figure it out. I finally understand the system. Thanks to all.

OK…i posted a long explanation.  Read it.  It should be AS THE PRINT….and as long as the power, from the lockout relay is coming in….through all the switchss….and the ground to the pump solenoid is there….they should work like designed….as contorted as it seems….