Slide floor fix - non conventional approach discussion.

[JeffM31]

So, I didn't want to spent 15k to get my floor fixed or to drive to Florida, so I did what I think will work just fine. The other side of the slide isn't nearly as bad so if this works good I'll do it to that side too.  I don't know why the pictures are so bad maybe the thumbnails on the bottom will be better

This is how it looked when I got all of the rot out

My fix to attach everything back, plus extra screws (that you can't see in the pics)  to help the epoxy grab. I used 3/4" and 1/4" oak to equal exactly 1" then screwed it up to the wall from the bottom and the lags from the slide will hold the other side. There was only one lag coming down the side wall into the floor. 

Used some birch to hold everything up as should be

Epoxy poured   I used the levelers to get it exactly level both ways to pour

I ended up using this stuff   322 bucks for 2 gallons   I used exactly a gallon to pour the above

These might be better pics

Doc1.docx

[96 EVO]

Hey, do what your comfortable with 👍!

[windsorbill06]

Creative.  Hope it holds up for years . 

How did you keep the epoxy from sticking to the plywood you have screwed to the underside of the slide? 

I'd still consider guardian plates all around.  

[JeffM31]

7 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Hey, do what your comfortable with 👍!

Personally I feel it’s stronger than original. 

4 minutes ago, windsorbill06 said:

Creative.  Hope it holds up for years . 

How did you keep the epoxy from sticking to the plywood you have screwed to the underside of the slide? 

I'd still consider guardian plates all around.  

I didn’t disturb the white plastic/vinyl. The wood is just to keep it all level and straight. I ordered some talin plates too. 👍🏻

Edited September 24, 2023 by JeffM31

[96 EVO]

10 minutes ago, windsorbill06 said:

 

I'd still consider guardian plates all around.  

Yeah, I may need to plate my passenger slides now.

The drivers sides were expensive to get here before the pandemic! Can't imagine what they will be now 😖!

Mind you, I don't think either passenger slides require 12" wide plates!

[jacwjames]

X2 on Guardian Plates, it will had strength. 

I've used West Epoxy on stuff and know it strengthens and binds the wood together.  Hasn't let me down on any thing I've used it for. 

 

 

I made most of the doors in my house out of Sassafras.  I had a couple slabs that were on the verge of being rotten, some call it spalted only worse.  I liked the look and decided to try  salvage them and made a large, ~45" wide door by mating two of these pieces and a couple smaller ones together.  I could have easily broken the larger pieces apart.  So I got the slabs glued together and then sealed the bottom with lots of tape, taping up any cracks.  Then poured the 2 part epoxy into any of the cracks.  Well it worked the door was now solid and after sanding it all looked good, the epoxy looks black with you put a finis on it.  There was a larger void that I filled and with a light on the other side you can see it. 

Mounted the door using a barn style roller system. 

[JeffM31]

3 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, I may need to plate my passenger slides now.

The drivers sides were expensive to get here before the pandemic! Can't imagine what they will be now 😖!

Mind you, I don't think either passenger slides require 12" wide plates!

My passenger side has no damage at all. Ordered plates for that side too to prevent any damage. I just bought this 3 or so months ago and the bad slide I forgot to beat on underneath. The previous owner put 1/16” steel plate under the carpet and it felt fine when I inspected it. Oh well my fault. Taking care of it now. 

3 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

X2 on Guardian Plates, it will had strength. 

I've used West Epoxy on stuff and know it strengthens and binds the wood together.  Hasn't let me down on any thing I've used it for. 

 

 

I made most of the doors in my house out of Sassafras.  I had a couple slabs that were on the verge of being rotten, some call it spalted only worse.  I liked the look and decided to try  salvage them and made a large, ~45" wide door by mating two of these pieces and a couple smaller ones together.  I could have easily broken the larger pieces apart.  So I got the slabs glued together and then sealed the bottom with lots of tape, taping up any cracks.  Then poured the 2 part epoxy into any of the cracks.  Well it worked the door was now solid and after sanding it all looked good, the epoxy looks black with you put a finis on it.  There was a larger void that I filled and with a light on the other side you can see it. 

Mounted the door using a barn style roller system. 

Looks awesome 👏🏻. Yes plates on order 

30 minutes ago, windsorbill06 said:

Creative.  Hope it holds up for years . 

How did you keep the epoxy from sticking to the plywood you have screwed to the underside of the slide? 

I'd still consider guardian plates all around.  

Maybe this pic is better. The vinyl is here. I just poured over it. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by JeffM31

[windsorbill06]

13 minutes ago, JeffM31 said:

My passenger side has no damage at all. Ordered plates for that side too to prevent any damage. I just bought this 3 or so months ago and the bad slide I forgot to beat on underneath. The previous owner put 1/16” steel plate under the carpet and it felt fine when I inspected it. Oh well my fault. Taking care of it now. 

Looks awesome 👏🏻. Yes plates on order 

I wonder how the guardian plates will attach that are covering the epoxy?    Usually they are held in place with the SS rivets.  I'd bring that up with Talin when ordering.

17 minutes ago, JeffM31 said:

My passenger side has no damage at all. Ordered plates for that side too to prevent any damage. I just bought this 3 or so months ago and the bad slide I forgot to beat on underneath. The previous owner put 1/16” steel plate under the carpet and it felt fine when I inspected it. Oh well my fault. Taking care of it now. 

Looks awesome 👏🏻. Yes plates on order 

Maybe this pic is better. The vinyl is here. I just poured over it. 

Yea,  I see its the backside of the white plastic now. .  When I first glanced at it, it looked like plywood.  

[JeffM31]

9 minutes ago, windsorbill06 said:

I wonder how the guardian plates will attach that are covering the epoxy?    Usually they are held in place with the SS rivets.  I'd bring that up with Talin when ordering.

Yea,  I see its the backside of the white plastic now. .  When I first glanced at it, it looked like plywood.  

Yes I discussed this with them about the rivets. I will take my chances with the epoxy cracking from them. I don’t think it will crack. Worst case I move the rivets around. 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, I may need to plate my passenger slides now.

The drivers sides were expensive to get here before the pandemic! Can't imagine what they will be now 😖!

Mind you, I don't think either passenger slides require 12" wide plates!

My take ….it is not really a matter of what width.  The plates are for the corners to keep Monaco’s crappy design from letting water in.  Other than some structural issues that I had….and you might have or will have that with the puny solid plastic rollers on the bedroom wardrobe slide, probably 80 - 90% of the issues come from water damage or buckling on the corners.

Now, the other purpose is to keep the underside from being damaged over time.  When Chris does his Gathering inspections, there is a lot of “scored” bottom plates.  I never cored my passenger slide (drop down), but the bed slide is barely 1/4”.  One bounce….and then the underlayment failed and had a dent.  Run it in and out for a few times….the thin, plastic coated material makes the dent oblong and it grows.

Bottom line.  Whether the plate is wide (26” for one of mine” and that would be the same as yours in order to fix the corner and also overlap the roller, the plates are designed for the particular size and need.

Now, does it make sense to put a 2” Guardian Plate on the corner…..then leave a large gap….then cover the roller?  Of course not….when the plate is laminated to the underside and spreading the load to prevent more issues.

That’s my take on it and I have some of the early units….  So, 12” or whatever….fix the corner and then overlap the roller as that is the weak point…  the dimensions and the structural issues and the physics takes over.  That is why each one is designed, based on the needs and also the spacing of the rollers from the corners…

That’s the way they are designed….and made.

 

[96 EVO]

4 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

Bottom line.  Whether the plate is wide (26” for one of mine” and that would be the same as yours in order to fix the corner and also overlap the roller, the plates are designed for the particular size and need.

 

 

26" Wow. Which slide was that for?

Think your floorplan / layout is different than mine. My coach has the deep slides on the drivers side!

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, JeffM31 said:

Yes I discussed this with them about the rivets. I will take my chances with the epoxy cracking from them. I don’t think it will crack. Worst case I move the rivets around. 

Actually, my take on it, from installing 3 sets.  YES, the rivets are part of the fastening system.  But, in reality, the rivets are more of an “alignment aid”.  You dryfit the plates….and they are held in place, if you then put an additional T jack in place under the field of the plate.  Then you drill the alignment holes in the underside.

BUT, the structural adhesive, the 3M Marine sealant/adhesive, then laminates the plate to the bottom side.  Yes, when you pop off the shanks, the SS rivet is clamping or compressing the plate to the underside. I actually used Loctite PL on my first plates.  I described the application to the tech support.  He chuckled.  If you use the recommended beading matrix, then those plates are never gonna come loose.

The Loctite tech said that in order to get the best lamination or bonding surface, was to immediately, after the rivets were set, use a long T jack and barely lift or compress or put pressure on the adhesive surface.  He was quite familiar with using PL (or any industrial adhesive) for laminating a plate or gluing two flat surfaces.  You get an exothermic reaction when the adhesive cures….and that equates to EXPANSION.  But, when you compress or clamp (lifting up the slide) to the surface that the plate is bonded to, that compresses the bead matrix and you get a grid pf bonding joints…and that puppy ain’t moving.  That is why you don’t try to smear the adhesive on or used a “grooved” trowel like you would with tile.

I really think that 4 rivets on the bottom and the spaced out ones on the sidewalls would work….but Chris did the design.  I know from experience with bonding in manufacturing that my plates aren’t gonna move….

NOW, one could run some shear and 180 deg peel tests like we do when we have to certify a joint…would be a great experiment…but the proper sized bead matrix and putting on the lifting or compression clamping for 24 hours….the plates are there to stay.

In the post here….if an epoxy is used and there are bonding points….should be OK.  I actually Bondo’ed the dent and then groove in my first job….just to have a level surface….   We engineers tend to overthink….and it looks like the way it is being repaired will work.  The TRICK…the underside has to to have some supports.  Monaco used a grid of  perlines  to space out the bottom and the top.  Then they vacuum filled and literally used the foam to glue the two pieces (think sandwich) together…but the grid of spacers or perlines kept the top and bottom panels parallel….and cut down on the weight…

8 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

26" Wow. Which slide was that for?

Think your floorplan / layout is different than mine. My coach has the deep slides on the drivers side!

I may be wrong and my pictures are on the PC and I am on my ipad.  My bedroom bed slide is on the curb side.  Crawl under your slide.  Locate the rear roller and put a pencil mark about 2’ towards the front.  That spreads out the load.  Then measure from the mark to the rear edge of the slide.  Mine was WIDE.  The front roller was much closer to the edge.

My large front drop down is on the curb also.  But the rollers are near the edges. So, as I said, every plate is custom fabricated to run from the edge or corner of the slide to maybe 2” past the roller.  Obviously, if you look at your wardrobe slide, you have plates on the corners and then the middle rollers.

The plates seem simple, but a lot of thought and “common sense engineering” went into them…

[96 EVO]

7 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

I may be wrong and my pictures are on the PC and I am on my ipad.  My bedroom bed slide is on the curb side.  Crawl under your slide.  Locate the rear roller and put a pencil mark about 2’ towards the front.  That spreads out the load.  Then measure from the mark to the rear edge of the slide.  Mine was WIDE.  The front roller was much closer to the edge.

 

Yeah, my slides are opposite to yours.

I've already plated the bed slide, and going by memory, both rollers were about 8" from the sidewalls. 12" wide plates on each end.

And, my livingroom flush floor slide has no rollers! 12" plates on each end of it as well!

[Tom Cherry]

17 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, my slides are opposite to yours.

I've already plated the bed slide, and going by memory, both rollers were about 8" from the sidewalls. 12" wide plates on each end.

And, my livingroom flush floor slide has no rollers! 12" plates on each end of it as well!

That is fascinating.  My drop down side had plastic runners on each end.  Those were, due to the weight, what carried the load.  So, I had to unscrew the cracked plastic glides or runners.  The short ends that broke off and stayed inside, above the rollers, was a PITA.  I had to “make” a long chisel and then jack up the slide and shear off the screws.  Then the Guardian plates went all the way in, but were cut off right before the plastic cam.  So, when the slide lifts, as it engages the lift cam (white nylon), then the rollers have the plates riding on them.  It has been 5 years, but my memory says there are two rollers, one on each end.  

If I understand you, your drop down slide has NO lower white nylon (plastic) glides or plates that contact the rollers.  Exactly what two surfaces does the slides ride on.  The HWH has a frame and tube design…but the 2009 Camelot has two wide, removable white plates….

NOW…the shorter front slide has no glides or runners….

Never can depend on Monaco for consistency….  LOL…

[96 EVO]

Long white glide plate the entire length of the slide, and slightly raised white nylon blocks on each end.

No rollers though!

[Tom Cherry]

22 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Long white glide plate the entire length of the slide, and slightly raised white nylon blocks on each end.

No rollers though!

One of us is wrong….or Monaco did some funky things.  
 

There is a “cam” or a nylon block on the floor.  When the slide starts out….the Guardian plate is riding on that short cam…it is then beveled snd when the Guadian plate runs out, the slide “drops down”.  BUT, there is a roller right past the cam…so, the slide’s weight is being carried by the roller.  Thus, when the slide comes in, it rides on the roller and then the plate engages the top of the cam or beveled white block and there is contact there, but the bulk of the slide (where the Guardian plate is) is also riding on the roller.  One roller on each end.

if you extend the slide…then look under and move my lip seal out or pull it apart where the plates or the white plastic glides were, there is a roller in there.  That was what the white plastic glides ran on.  Pulled mine out…put the plates in….works great.

NOW maybe Monaco put some sort of “nylon block” in yours and then switched to rollers in 2009.  I had to jack or lift my slide….then shear the screws….and clean out the area where the glides were….then fit and cut the tip of the Guardian plates to get the 1/4” or so of clearance so that the Guardian Plates would ride on the rollers, but the lift cam would raise it.

Be curious to see what your plates are riding on….

[96 EVO]

The plastic strips your calling 'glides', were screwed to the slide floor?

[JeffM31]

Mine only has the plastic glides on the flush floor floor. No rollers whatsoever 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

The plastic strips your calling 'glides', were screwed to the slide floor?

The strips or glides were screwed directly to the UNDERSIDE of the slide….some call that the floor, but it is what you see when you look under it….yes, they crack.  Monaco used them on several models…..  and my 2009 Camelot has two rollers.  I know as I pried up or pulled out the sides of the gasket on the sidewall of the body…where they ran or where the “glides” contacted the rollers.  I lubricated the side bearings or bushings.

30 minutes ago, JeffM31 said:

Mine only has the plastic glides on the flush floor floor. No rollers whatsoever 

Fascinating….I assume you mean the 6 - 12” wide, maybe 3/16” thick, wide plastic or white nylon plates or glides that run from the outer edge…or maybe not quite to the end and extend, when the slide is out, under and terminate inside.  Mine run on s roller, which is recessed and inside the outer body or sidewall.

Learn more every day….but, for 14 years, folks here have complained that the plastic/nylon cracks and sometimes pieces fall out…. They have used every imaginable piece of flat stock to replace.  Chris’ SS Guardian plates solve the in and out issues which tear up the thin bottom as well as fixes the critical joint where moisture penetrates…and if you get moisture in….THEN it really gets bad and costly….

[96 EVO]

7 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

The strips or glides were screwed directly to the UNDERSIDE of the slide….some call that the floor, but it is what you see when you look under it….yes, they crack. 

Mine came with those strips as well. They started crumbling, so I removed them, and installed 12" Guardian plates.

No rollers on that slide though!

[Tom Cherry]

19 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Mine came with those strips as well. They started crumbling, so I removed them, and installed 12" Guardian plates.

No rollers on that slide though!

We are probably saying the same thing.  What I call the beveled or white cam is INSIDE the Motor Home and if you lift the carpeting, you see it on each end.  It is screwed down or attached to, the interior floor.  The word CAM is what many use as the beveled edge is what lifts up the floor on retraction or allows it to drop down at the end or full extension.

That is really distressing….as heavy as the slides are.  Mine has the rollers carrying the weight and also making the slide easier (as in less hydraulic force) to move the slide.  I’m guessing that there were warranty issues and then the rollers were added in 2009.  They are the same kind of rollers and design as is under my long bed slide.

Progress marches on…

[Twomed]

I have used West System epoxy and 3M 5200  a lot in marine applications, don't think you will have an issue with cracking.   If you ever try to drill the stuff after properly cured you will know why...do let it set for a week or so before doing your plate rivets.  3M 5200 comes in a quicker setting formula...48 hours and is not as runny/messy as the regular stuff.  When they say "permanent" it really means it.  If you have ever tried to remove deck or thru hull fittings on a boat sealed with the stuff you will understand.  Could probably skip the rivets, but I used them on mine too.  Old aviators and maint officers like to rivet everything, feels better when the option is a long drop.😁 

[Gary 05 AMB DST]

The white plastic is probably UHMW. My 05 Ambassador has a beveled slide lift the whole length of the slide on the floor and the slide has a beveled edge the whole length, the bottom of the slide is all UHMW. Very expensive. With my self-made plates, the center of the slide barely touches the beveled cam. On the later models, Monaco probably realized they didn't need so much UHMW and just put it on the ends of the slide.

Gary 05 AMB DST

[JeffM31]

So we are the same page, this is what my flush floor slide rides on 

[96 EVO]

Perfect!

Exactly as I have!