DOUBLE HELP! 2005 HR Ambassador Lighting strike. Need ECM Program Copy. Other issues as well….

[miner mike]

Not quit sure where to start looking. unit was struck by lighting and damage was done to house and engine systems. house systems have all been repaired. The engine system is another story. Found fuses blown for instrument panel lights and gauges, replaced fuses on both and ok. ABS unit displayed fault and was cleared by doing hard reset. The check engine light stays on. The engine will not start But the Gen. runs. local mechanic said the fuel was contaminated and applied to insurance for cost to replace fuel tank and insurance wanted to know how lighting contaminated fuel and canceled coverage. Any help would be appreciated. mechanic also installed new ECM, high pressure rail sensor,  electric fuel primer pump ,and fuel filters. anybody have an idea on a place to start looking.

[Dr4Film]

I agree with your insurance companies statement that it is HIGHLY unlikely that a lightning strike would contaminate fuel. Not knowing your local mechanic, but how did he determine that the fuel tank was contaminated? What was his reason for claiming that especially when the generator was running and I am assuming it is a diesel generator?

There are many others here with a lot more engine experience than I that hopefully will chime in with information and places to start troubleshooting.

[jacwjames]

What engine do you have?

Did they check for fault codes before replacing ECM?   Do they get any fault codes now???  Does your mechanic have the insite program for Cummins engines??  He should be able to do some tests on the fuel system to make sure it is functioning

I have 3 fuse holders in my rear passenger side electrical compartment that hold 7 fuses, most are for engine.  Any of those might cause a no start. 

Also, since  you had insurance when this happened the insurance company is probably obligated to take of any damage, they can't just cancel and walk away.  Are they continuing to support you as you try to get the rig fixed. 

With a lightening strike damage to the engine electronic system could be hard to find.  It is plausible that it can't be fixed and depending on the value of the coach might approach a total loss.  

Edited September 25, 2023 by jacwjames

[Ivan K]

Your mechanic did not do you any good by filing this nonsense tank replacement claim. Since he replaced the ECM and would have to eventually customize it for your rig, I assume he has the computer hooked up and is really focusing on the fuel system for that reason. One basic thing I noticed is missing in the replacement list is fuel shutoff valve but it could have been checked. Of course all the power connections mentioned above need to be working.

[Tom Cherry]

Basics.  A new ECM, or refurbished, comes with the “emissions” or calibration data and all the parameters for running the engine.  However, unless you had a copy (printed or electronic) copy, which is only available via the Cummins Insight software, your MH ain’t gonna work.  May or may NOT be driveable.  There have been major discussions and some misunderstandings and misinformation espoused and we, the Staff, try to keep it correct.  Monaco had to input several items related to the driveline as well as the cruise as well as the “exhaust braking” system.  That is a generic top view.  We have had members get new/refurbished ECM and the techs did not know what all was misding….nor did they have the resources or the knowledge to try to “fill in” or set up all the parameters Monaco did that relate specifically to your MH.

IN MANY CASES, we have assisted members in getting cooies of their specific year and model and that is the easiest and most foolproof method to properly restore it.  Now, if the data file or 50 odd page print out of your old ECM was readable, as in the base “memory” was intact, but the “brain” or the processor was damaged, then the Cummins Insight “might” be able to recover and then a tech would go line by line over the 50 pages (memory on the actual # of pages….but a bunch) and input the values as well as select the parameter options….a tedious process….

Past that…..was the TCM damaged?  MAYBE a few more.  The issue of replacing the entire fuel system should have been done by the “troubleshooting” and not just…”it were probably messed up”.

No offense to your tech, but the “throw parts & $$ at it since the insurance company is paying” is not the correct way….and there have been many claims rejected…. Assuming you got authorization for “repair/replace defective items to restore functionality” from the insurance.  If all the work was done, due to the magnitude, estimates and quotes and troubleshooting, you may be liable for items/labor that were erroneously replaced and were not damaged by the strike….

BOTTOM LINE.  Edited title.  Need a 2005 HR Ambassador member with a copy of their ECM to assist….then sort out the rest….

That is my “understanding” based on lightning damages as well as failed ECM’s from past topics.  Edited the Topic Title to focus on the ECM issue.

@miner mike

please discuss with Tech.  Was your old ECM salvageable for all the data and options parameters or did he just pop in a new “emissions only” stock ECM.  VERY IMPORTANT!  JOB ONE!

[miner mike]

When the mechanic replaced the ECM he took it out of the unit and to his shop. when he came back and installed it he told me it had been programed to my unit.. He connected his computer to it while it was in the unit looked at the screen and worked the curser shook his head and went to his van and got different computer and did the same thing said he forgot to charge that one too. I purchased a system analyzer from Nexas [nl102] but it only tells that battery is ok, no other readings will come up on screen.

[miner mike]

I do not know what was done to the ecm to program it but i will not spend any more with the tech that lost my insurance coverage for me. He was filing for a supplement for the funds to replace the fuel tank when insurance canceled coverage. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said he might throwing money at it in hopes to find cure.

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, miner mike said:

When the mechanic replaced the ECM he took it out of the unit and to his shop. when he came back and installed it he told me it had been programed to my unit.. He connected his computer to it while it was in the unit looked at the screen and worked the curser shook his head and went to his van and got different computer and did the same thing said he forgot to charge that one too. I purchased a system analyzer from Nexas [nl102] but it only tells that battery is ok, no other readings will come up on screen.

OK…Not knocking your guy.  But there are two sections of the ECM.  The base or “how to make the engine run” which has all the Cummins info.  If a new or refurbished ECM is installed, properly, the engine should or will start….assuming all the necessary devices and fuel are there.  Suppose you stopped the engine or it died on you….due to a failure in the ECM.  Up to that point….all the support systems, mainly fuel, were working.  FACT….this happened to a friend.  Called me.  The Cummins (CERTIFIED) tech said….cannot retrieve the programming variables.  If a new/refurb is put in….engine will start.  The tech brought out a “test” ECM…that the shop kept for that purpose.  He downloaded the CUMMINS parameters for that engine SN.  Popped it in.  BINGO….runs.  

SO, my friend had them air freight in a refurb unit.  Then the issue.  All the Monaco data….values and which options and how the cruise worked and a plethora of other functions….specific to his MH could not be retrieved. Frank McElroy and I talked and he had that ECM progrsm in his files.  Sent it to the tech.  I spent an hour in the phone with Tech.  Frank spent time as well.

YES….IF your guy had Insight software, and data was retrievable….he could have downloaded the Monaco info.  If not, then, assuming that fuel was OK & ALL the “systems” that communicate with the ECM were OK, Engine should have started.

Just verified that with Frank.  We can’t help or do much more.  The stock, Cummins program, should have been in the new ECM.  Insight will not let a tech mess with that….

That’s it….  Frank sent me a text to clarify & also breakdown the four software/adapter packages…..

Cummins Insite not insight.  Cummins has the following software:

Insite  - for diagnostics.  PLAIN VANILLA VERSION

Insite PROFESSIONAL - Allows changes to non Cummins “locked” parameters as well as reflash the ECM

Incal - to reflash for software updates 

Inline - the communication interface between the ECM and your laptop containing Insite software.

Calterm - the software that changes engine parameters.  Dealers don't have this software -  only Cummins R&D

THANKS to  @Frank McElroy for the information and correcting my spelling of INSITE.

 

[Guest Ray Davis]

 I'm not going to be as nice as Tom C.   I have real questions about your mechanic,  lightening would have to blow a hole in the tank to ruin it.             And unless it sat for a long spell waiting on insurance, contamination was already there and to tell the insurance about contamination was idiotic.       They aren't stupid and now they smell a rat.   You don't want to be associated with the suspicion of insurance fraud.

Do you know if the fuel lift pump is running?  When the key is turned on you should hear it running in the engine area for approx 30 sec.  Has he checked the filters to   see if they are full?  If the filters are not full, they can be filled with clean fuel, put your thumb or some clean stopper in the center hole & fill the outer holes.

Oh BTW,  you probably know that you have a remote start switch in the engine compartment but your mechanic may not know about it and he would not be the first to accidentally touch it and cause it not to start.  It would be wonderful if that's what the no-start issue is.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Ray Davis

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

You are in a position to have to rely on the insurance coverage you have.  I recommend ACTUAL REPLACEMENT COST COVERAGE.  If there is a lien on the coach, the lien holder will get first money the insurance company pays After they depreciate the coach.  Any money left will go to you. 

There is a lot of wires that are hidden in the coach with little access to it.  It is almost impossible to put an eyeball on all of it. You will be dealing with problems that will come up in the future.  I would take my losses and get another coach.  Chuck B

[Orrin C]

Fuel contanination could be cause by lightning strike.  Intank assemblies were affected and could release microscopic particles into the fuel.  Easy to check, have the fuel tested.  Who is your insurance company?

[Dr4Film]

So for a better understanding of exactly what microscopic particles could be released into the diesel tank from a lightning strike, are you referring to microbial particles or physical particles?

Microbial particles would need a treatment whereas any physical particles would be caught by the filters unless they are REALLY small.

[Guest Ray Davis]

2 hours ago, Orrin C said:

Intank assemblies were affected and could release microscopic particles into the fuel.

What do you mean by intake assemblies?   Would microscopic particles keep it from even starting?  Seems like it would still start.

You gotta feel for the owner.  There is a remote chance his coach is totaled and now he appears to be at odds with his insurance company.

Life can sure get cross-threaded.

 

[miner mike]

I would like to thank all members who responded to my post.. It looks like I may have to resort to finding a similar coach to copy the program from. I need to know if this can be done to the ECM that I have or will it be necessary to obtain an ECM that has not been programed. If there is anyone out there that could help it would be greatly appreciated.

[olywrestle]

I have a 2006 ambassador. Not sure if ecm is the same. How would I be able to provide my programming if it is compatible? 

[jacwjames]

The ECM parameters can be copied to CD and or paper copy printed out. 

When I first bought my  coach in 2008 I took it to the nearest Cummins shop for a service/inspection.  I knew the manager and he said he'd take care of me.  In the end he gave the coach a positive review saying it was "cherry" but he also made sure to check the ECM for any faults and also provided me with a CD with the ECM image.  ~350 lines that show how it was programmed. 

From my understanding a new ECM could be set up with the above into.   My suggestion is that the next time you have your rig to a shop for service ask them for the ECM image, may cost ~$200 but probably worth having. 

 

The OP said that his ECM was changed out, a good tech would have had to make an ECM image to set up the new ECM.  If he didn't do that I'd suggest he starts looking for a new tech & also see if he can get his old ECM to see if the image can be recovered.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by jacwjames