Ignition switch failure?? Questions

[MHRookie]

All,

     2003 Monaco Dynasty.  I'm having a few issues to fix.  One is the with the ignition switch (I think).  When I turn the key (not to start), I don't always get the chime noise while waiting for fuel lights to go off before starting.  What else besides the key switch could cause this in the ignition system?  All dash lights are functioning and coach is starting as normal...  just no chime.  What other items would/should I look at in this troublehooting venture...

It might be related to the hydraulic slide not working.  I've noticed when I get the chime, the switch works, when the chime isn't present, I've had to tap on the slide motor & solenoid and that makes the slideout switch work.  I have not tried this with the generator slide function but likely will since we are NOT supposed to intermittently start & stop the big slide.  

Just wondering if these issues are related or tied together.  I'll be cleaning the slide motor & solenoid terminals to see if this helps anything.

 

Thanks for your input,

Kurt

 

[cbr046]

Try swapping the Pac Bell 1 & 2 relays in Monaco Box 2 in the Front Run Bay under the driver.  You can swap with the Horn relay in Monaco Box 1 with minimal impact on other systems.  Easy and quick to do.

Ignition relay in Monaco Box 2 feeds Pac Bell relay but I believe you'd have more symptoms than just the chime. 

- bob

[MHRookie]

Bob,

gotta ask…. What’s the pac bell?

[cbr046]

1 hour ago, MHRookie said:

Bob,

gotta ask…. What’s the pac bell?

Sorry, Park Bell.  When I had a problem I swapped IGN and and Park Bell relays.  That caused my dash lights to light up and coach to start but the "bell" no longer sounded.  Swapped with the Horn relay and everything worked again.  If you look at the schematic below you'll see those relays are pretty convoluted.  The full diagram is on page 43 of the wiring diagrams that Frank McElroy recently posted in the downloads section. 

As I said before, it's a 30 sec job to swap relays.  When I had my problem I spent 6 hours in a Pilot truck stop trying to trace circuits, check connectors, check fuses to no avail.  After a $1650 tow bill and the coach sitting in the street in front of the house I finally got it running long enough to park in the driveway.  I then spent days trying to troubleshoot, including replacing the ignition switch.  At the time I didn't have the diagram below.  Had I simply swapped the IGN relay I would have avoided all that despair (and a lot of $$$). 

- bob

[MHRookie]

Bob,

     Thanks, I'll give this a shot to start with.  

Thanks & I'll report back the finding...

[MHRookie]

This issue has come back….. and it morphed….

New ignition installed….So……

1) turn key on, NO pre-start lights nor alert tone from dash

2) turn key on, pre-start lights appear but NO alert tone

3) turn key on, all works as normal

All 3 options can take place BUT the morph(s) are….

option 1, no smartwheel functions 

option 2, some smartwheel functions work (mainly the “high idle” option doesn’t work

option 3, everything works normal

chassis master switch and option 1… cycle master off THEN when move to on…. It makes the horn blare (turn master off only way to stop).

2 days ago, OPTION 2 event but coach started and we departed anyway… 1/2 way into trip went to turn on headlights AND they AND the Horn blared… horn off with headlight switch off.  THEN, I pushed another button on wheel and Horn and wipers went off, had to pull over and mess with VIP wire harness to stop (unhooked “washer pump” wire (purple) and all stopped & wheel functions worked normal… 

DAY 4… turn key start & Option 1.  Cycled master & horn blared.  Removed all wires from VIP board, then turn on master, started coach, plugged in wires on at a time on vip (except washer pump) and everything functioned normal through trip (headlights and wipers worked normally thank goodness since I had to use them).

 

starting the troubleshoot journey.

Is there a “master” ground that splits off to all the ground bars?

VIP - I’m working this….. as others have stated IMMI troubleshoot tree doesn’t jive with Monaco’s wiring but initial diagnose shows all was in spec

 Clock spring - is there a way to test  this device?

sorry it’s a long post but trying to get as much info as possible out…. 
 

thanks for any direction …

[Tom Cherry]

Total guess…..without prints…ok….with a brief look ar prints.  The 2003 Dynasty is a good set….easy to follow…

look at the index.

this one is about 25% “into” the list. The diodes in the harnesses would be my target….

here is screenshot…..

 

 

[MHRookie]

Tom, I’m going to guess this print showing all the dash lights that these “diodes” would be in the dash contain off the top panel and search!  
Next, the harder question… do you just ohm test a diode - meter lead on each side & ignition switch on or off?

[cbr046]

Always ohm test with power off and diode disconnected from anything at one end.  I don't know where they're actually located . . . . hidden in the harness maybe?

- bob

[Tom Cherry]

YOUTUBE is your friend.  YES, Bob is probably right.  Learn HOW to do this. NOW, Monaco does "imbed" or maybe put shrink tubing over the diodes. I have them in a wiring harness for my slides. Start at the point on the dash and start working back. You should see a BULGE or such. There may be the corrugated split tubing over the harness....slide or open it up and keep tracing. Eventually, there will be a place where they are. 

NOW....you will probably have to "cut" the leads to isolate the diodes.  NOT AN ISSUE.  Just have a Ratcheting Crimper and use a BUTT splice (End to end) connector and put them back in.  Probably number 12 or 14 wire.  Just use the right size and reconnect. That will be fine.  

I can't tell you that this IS the problem... but your ghost is a bugger... and a bad diode can really mess things up.  BUT....there are so many gremlins...  I would verify all the grounds to the dash and such.  I would also install NEW (OEM Bosch from Amazon) relays in all the circuits that are impacted...  THEN probably start exploring...

[MHRookie]

On 1/22/2024 at 5:19 PM, Tom Cherry said:

YOUTUBE is your friend.  YES, Bob is probably right.  Learn HOW to do this. NOW, Monaco does "imbed" or maybe put shrink tubing over the diodes. I have them in a wiring harness for my slides. Start at the point on the dash and start working back. You should see a BULGE or such. There may be the corrugated split tubing over the harness....slide or open it up and keep tracing. Eventually, there will be a place where they are. 

NOW....you will probably have to "cut" the leads to isolate the diodes.  NOT AN ISSUE.  Just have a Ratcheting Crimper and use a BUTT splice (End to end) connector and put them back in.  Probably number 12 or 14 wire.  Just use the right size and reconnect. That will be fine.  

I can't tell you that this IS the problem... but your ghost is a bugger... and a bad diode can really mess things up.  BUT....there are so many gremlins...  I would verify all the grounds to the dash and such.  I would also install NEW (OEM Bosch from Amazon) relays in all the circuits that are impacted...  THEN probably start exploring...

Tom,

     Just a report…. No joy, all diodes tested good.  Digging in all the spaghetti was a little nerve racking but not too bad.

     Tomorrow I am going to send you a picture of my VIP control board and see if you think the soldering & a slight discoloration may warrant replacement or looks alright.

I’ve read a lot of CIP threads and there isn’t really a silver bullet fix, but I think I may tackle requiring all the harness from the Monaco plug to the control board.  Just need to figure out how to tackle larger wire but keeping the same pin size on the VIP end.

thanks & if you can think of another possible troubleshoot item…shoot away.

Kurt

[Tom Cherry]

4 minutes ago, MHRookie said:

Tom,

     Just a report…. No joy, all diodes tested good.  Digging in all the spaghetti was a little nerve racking but not too bad.

     Tomorrow I am going to send you a picture of my VIP control board and see if you think the soldering & a slight discoloration may warrant replacement or looks alright.

I’ve read a lot of CIP threads and there isn’t really a silver bullet fix, but I think I may tackle requiring all the harness from the Monaco plug to the control board.  Just need to figure out how to tackle larger wire but keeping the same pin size on the VIP end.

thanks & if you can think of another possible troubleshoot item…shoot away.

Kurt

Please post all your pictures and such.  I understand a lot about the basic circuits and how the various ones that are hardwired or relay controlled work.  

BUT, we also have some really astute “electronics” guys that understand “PCB” issues.  I regret that I can’t provide a more specific trouble shooting direction.  

I have also been the victim of a ghost and it took me maybe 6 years to find “him”.  Retracing the main power from the ignition switch to all the components that act flaky is a daunting task.  Plugging and unplugging and “reseating” the harnesses is a must.  I can’t recall if you have a “chassis power solenoid” that turns on a high current circuit.  If there is….then find it.  Move one cable to the other side so that they are bonded….then experiment.  

Unfortunately there are so many places for a high resistance connection or an intermittent….just a matter of perseverance and testing….

Losing a circuit is common, but getting a phantom feedback on non-related circuits is a real mystery….
 

[MHRookie]

Here is the condition of my VIP SM209 board.  I didn’t take off the plugs because there is no discoloration on them or the board.

the discoloration on the back lines up with the furthest left 25amp relay.  It’s not mounted as flush as the others are.  Anyone with solder & motherboard experience weigh in….  Does this warrant replacement or can it be repaired?

Thanks,

Kurt

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

10 hours ago, MHRookie said:

Here is the condition of my VIP SM209 board.  I didn’t take off the plugs because there is no discoloration on them or the board.

the discoloration on the back lines up with the furthest left 25amp relay.  It’s not mounted as flush as the others are.  Anyone with solder & motherboard experience weigh in….  Does this warrant replacement or can it be repaired?

Thanks,

Kurt

 

 

Our two experts, and we may have others, are @Frank McElroy & @pwhittle 

Frank is the guru and repair guy for the Knogsberg CCM Chassis boards and has repaired several of the Intelitec MXP boards. Paul is also an expert on the Intellitec MPX and some other ones, I think.

Maybe they can lend a hand.  

Lots of chatter and posts out there.  Don't know if there is a company or individual that refurbishes the boards....but it is worth googling....

Good Luck.  If you find a solution, be sure to post or provide a good vendor...

[pwhittle]

@Frank McElroy is the best with troubleshooting boards. I am more of a parts swapper.

That relay is not too hard to replace with the right tools, but I would want to see what load that relay controls and consider adding an external relay to reduce the load on the board as well.

 My cruise on/off output went out on mine. That is one of the small black relays. I replaced it and it did not fix the issue, so I wired a fused output around the relay and my cruise is always enabled. Works for me. 😀