Low air alarm and Park/Neutral/Brake Alarm

[jad050]

I have a fairly new to me 2012 Ambassador. My previous coach 2005 Knight would beep alarm in neutral with parking brake not set and foot not on brake pedal. The 2012 doesn't do that.  When I start the beast up and air pressure is low, the 2005 would beep until it aired up to 60+psi, new coach doesn't do that...  Was this feature removed?  I seem to recall when I took my class B driving test, we did a safety inspection of air brakes which include alarms for low pressure.     I looked around a bit,  I notice I don't have a Nasson switch at base of parking brake...  Anyone with 2012 ambassador or knight confirm how this should work...  Personally, I would prefer alarms like I had in 2005

 

Thanks...  

Jim D

2012 Holiday Ambassador

[tmw188]

I’ll be watching, my alarm does not work on my ‘02 Windsor. I have not looked for the reason why. 

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, jad050 said:

I have a fairly new to me 2012 Ambassador. My previous coach 2005 Knight would beep alarm in neutral with parking brake not set and foot not on brake pedal. The 2012 doesn't do that.  When I start the beast up and air pressure is low, the 2005 would beep until it aired up to 60+psi, new coach doesn't do that...  Was this feature removed?  I seem to recall when I took my class B driving test, we did a safety inspection of air brakes which include alarms for low pressure.     I looked around a bit,  I notice I don't have a Nasson switch at base of parking brake...  Anyone with 2012 ambassador or knight confirm how this should work...  Personally, I would prefer alarms like I had in 2005

 

Thanks...  

Jim D

2012 Holiday Ambassador

Unless Monaco made major changes, you have a problem.  Your best approach is to read the manual..  Start on page 204.  Continue to read and perform the various tests. This is very important to ensure that your air and braking system is not leaking and operating properly.

You will note on page 207 that your Ambassador DOES have an audible LOW PRESSURE ALARM.  DO NOT SKIP OVER the tests…..do them in order and record the results.  If you have questions, you can post them here and we have many experts.

You will also have to note the pressures.  Monaco used many different “pressure” monitoring systems.  Some were fully integrated into the instrument cluster….and repairs to them are often difficult due to the age and lack of parts.  Others are simple and are common parts and individual components.  You may need to determine the brand and model of the instruments….digging into the dash and looking at the prints is typically the best approach.

We have had issues where there was a “major” failure of a system that fed or used the dash instrument cluster buzzer….and some ingenious techs “jimmied” or hacked the instrument cluster….so, in essence…..there was NO ALARM …..for ANY CONDITION.  UGLY.  In those cases, auxiliary air pressure gauges were installed and low pressure switches and simple buzzers or alarms were installed.  At least there was a system in place for the critical air system.  However, other alarm conditions were only alerted by the idiot lights….

Thats sort of the gist of it.  Time to learn and test and determine or troubleshoot what if anything is wrong, and where  and how…..

 

[Ivan K]

4 hours ago, tmw188 said:

I’ll be watching, my alarm does not work on my ‘02 Windsor. I have not looked for the reason why. 

Being of similar vintage, both my air pressure sensor and buzzer are under the top dash access cover. Both failed on me in the past. Park brake sender is hanging off the plunger bottom.

[dandick66]

My 2012 Diplomat has the low pressure alarm.  Your problem might be the alarm itself, not a sensor. 
Do you get an alarm (beeping sound) when you turn the ignition switch on?  If so, your alarm is working.  When you start the engine and the air is low, the Medallion display should alternate between “Front Air Low” and “Rear Air Low”.  Do you get those readings?  
The alarm for the Medallion system is on a PCB behind the instrument panel.  

[jad050]

1 hour ago, dandick66 said:

the Medallion display should alternate between “Front Air Low” and “Rear Air Low”.  Do you get those readings?  
The alarm for the Medallion system is on a PCB behind the instrument panel.  

Yes,  I get digital display of Low pressure(s).. is this pointing me to 'alarm'?  Is this a replaceable part or am I looking for a pcb board?

[jacwjames]

I remembered a post talking about an "Annunciator" which is what alarms for low air

Not sure what is on earlier model coaches. 

Here's a post from IRV2 with a different type of annunciator  https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/replacement-anunciator-38060867-a-574645.html

Might be a hard part to find though

Edited March 25 by jacwjames

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, jad050 said:

Yes,  I get digital display of Low pressure(s).. is this pointing me to 'alarm'?  Is this a replaceable part or am I looking for a pcb board?

Yes.  At that point, when you get the idiot light….you should have noise.  Now comes the “hunt”.  Whether you have a PCB with a “wired” remote buzzer or a surface mounted beeper is the question.  There were 3 maybe more vendors used by Monaco.  We have, I think, 2012 Diplomat drawings. The question is…..did Monaco use the same vendor or another.  Faria, ACTI, Medallion are 3 brands that come to mind….IIRC there may be a third one.  Get your phone out….you may need to purchase one of the wireless “probe” or snooper cameras.  They have an LED light as well and are on a flex line.

Pull the dash access cover..  Get a picture (cell phone)  or snooper camera of the backs of the instrument cluster and gauges.  TYPICALLY….There is a main cluster.  That has one or two multipin connectors….maybe 10 - 12 wires….and maybe 2 of them.  These are the inputs from all the sensors and such.  They feed the “main brain”.  It will be the largest cluster.  There may be side or other clusters next to it.  This brain sends out the other gauges inputs.  The brain also lights up all the idiot lights as well.

GET A PART NUMBER (S) from each cluster.  Also find the two air line sensors….they have a 1/4” line to each.  These are the pressure transducers….that go to the brain.  ACTI has them on the brains PCB.  MEDALLION is remote or not on a cluster.  UNFORTUNATELY most of these clusters are old and the vendor doesn’t have in stock or fix.  ACTI was a upper end brand….

START googling the PN and maybe there is a brand or logo. Then you call the vendor and give them enough info to locate THEIR prints.  GREAT TO HAVE.  They will tell you ANNUCIATOR is remote and replaceable or on a board.  Usually, a shut off beeper means a 100% BAD alarm condition….and a tech started getting creative…

NEXT QUESTION….OR an ASSIGNMENT.  Read the manual….thoroughly.  Does any other “function” use the BEEPER.  Typically, switch off….headlights ON…AN ALERT.  Have you EVER heard an alarm?  Do you have an “IDIOT” light that is always on?

THERE is no “cookbook” answer to how your gauges work.  Detective work….find vendor name.  Find the series or model.  Get the vendors prints on the incoming and outgoing wires.  Find out where the pressure transducers are.  Find out where the beeper or annunciator is…

AS stated earlier….  If the gauges WORK…..THEN you have a WORK AROUND.  Put a “T” in each line.  Install a 50 PSI switch on each line.  Hardwire a 12 VDC ALARM OR BEEPER.  

Thats it….good luck.  Keep us posted.  If you get prints, then PM @Frank McElroy  Send him the prints and any digital manuals or such and he will put them in the files for others to access….

[dandick66]

3 hours ago, jad050 said:

Yes,  I get digital display of Low pressure(s).. is this pointing me to 'alarm'?  Is this a replaceable part or am I looking for a pcb board?

What happens when you turn the key on?  Do you hear an alarm/buzzer/annunciator?  If you do, then your problem is with the air sensor system l. If you don’t, then your problem is more than likely the buzzer/annunciator.

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

Yes.  At that point, when you get the idiot light….you should have noise.  Now comes the “hunt”.  Whether you have a PCB with a “wired” remote buzzer or a surface mounted beeper is the question.  There were 3 maybe more vendors used by Monaco.  We have, I think, 2012 Diplomat drawings. The question is…..did Monaco use the same vendor or another.  Faria, ACTI, Medallion are 3 brands that come to mind….IIRC there may be a third one.  Get your phone out….you may need to purchase one of the wireless “probe” or snooper cameras.  They have an LED light as well and are on a flex line.

Pull the dash access cover..  Get a picture (cell phone)  or snooper camera of the backs of the instrument cluster and gauges.  TYPICALLY….There is a main cluster.  That has one or two multipin connectors….maybe 10 - 12 wires….and maybe 2 of them.  These are the inputs from all the sensors and such.  They feed the “main brain”.  It will be the largest cluster.  There may be side or other clusters next to it.  This brain sends out the other gauges inputs.  The brain also lights up all the idiot lights as well.

GET A PART NUMBER (S) from each cluster.  Also find the two air line sensors….they have a 1/4” line to each.  These are the pressure transducers….that go to the brain.  ACTI has them on the brains PCB.  MEDALLION is remote or not on a cluster.  UNFORTUNATELY most of these clusters are old and the vendor doesn’t have in stock or fix.  ACTI was a upper end brand….

START googling the PN and maybe there is a brand or logo. Then you call the vendor and give them enough info to locate THEIR prints.  GREAT TO HAVE.  They will tell you ANNUCIATOR is remote and replaceable or on a board.  Usually, a shut off beeper means a 100% BAD alarm condition….and a tech started getting creative…

NEXT QUESTION….OR an ASSIGNMENT.  Read the manual….thoroughly.  Does any other “function” use the BEEPER.  Typically, switch off….headlights ON…AN ALERT.  Have you EVER heard an alarm?  Do you have an “IDIOT” light that is always on?

THERE is no “cookbook” answer to how your gauges work.  Detective work….find vendor name.  Find the series or model.  Get the vendors prints on the incoming and outgoing wires.  Find out where the pressure transducers are.  Find out where the beeper or annunciator is…

AS stated earlier….  If the gauges WORK…..THEN you have a WORK AROUND.  Put a “T” in each line.  Install a 50 PSI switch on each line.  Hardwire a 12 VDC ALARM OR BEEPER.  

Thats it….good luck.  Keep us posted.  If you get prints, then PM @Frank McElroy  Send him the prints and any digital manuals or such and he will put them in the files for others to access….

I looked up the 2012 Ambassador brochure and the dash is identical to my Diplomat.  That means you do indeed have the Medallion system. The alarm should go off when you turn the key on.  It will also go on if you open the door with the engine running.  There are other situations that make it come on - high temperature, engine warning, etc. Like I posted above, you need to determine if your problem is the alarm/buzzer or the air sensors before you start digging into the dash. 
 

 The alarm/beeper/annunciator is surface mounted to the PCB.  You could probably unsolder it, but if it were me, I’d clip the wire at the connector and wire in a new buzzer/light combination device. 

[jad050]

Thanks for all the info and suggestions.  I'm traveling right now,  will be back to RV in a couple of days....

One last question,  does the top of dash pop off, there are no screw holding a access plate like my last rv.  

Thanks,  JD

[dandick66]

56 minutes ago, jad050 said:

Thanks for all the info and suggestions.  I'm traveling right now,  will be back to RV in a couple of days....

One last question,  does the top of dash pop off, there are no screw holding a access plate like my last rv.  

Thanks,  JD

Yes, it lifts off.  Lift it up and towards the windshield.  

[jad050]

On 3/25/2024 at 5:11 PM, dandick66 said:

Yes, it lifts off.  Lift it up and towards the windshield.  

Wow, that was easy enough, that cover off you have great access behind dash...  first thing I saw was a wire bundle terminated with a molex connector hanging in air marked "alarm mudule"  thought I found it...  looked a bit more and cam up with more hanging connectors,  realized this is likely a "one size fits all" wiring harness..and some.models have an alarm feature..

I found the back of Medallion display panel with buzzer...   with the cover off I could hear the buzzer when key was turned on and stayed on until air was >60psi... but not very loud!!!  With dash cover on knowing the sound I  can almost hear it if I lean in. My 2005 knight I could here Low air alarm in back of coach with engine running...  need to go back with some connector probes,  hopefully the alarm is a unique feed to Medallion panel.  There are not that many wires for the number of lights on that panel...  and one connector feed the lid display...  I need a much louder alarm for this..

Will update again once I isolate what feeds buzzer.   Going to my local electronics store and see what they have.  I got lots of old PC beepers,  but I want louder...

JimD  

[Tom Cherry]

57 minutes ago, jad050 said:

Wow, that was easy enough, that cover off you have great access behind dash...  first thing I saw was a wire bundle terminated with a molex connector hanging in air marked "alarm mudule"  thought I found it...  looked a bit more and cam up with more hanging connectors,  realized this is likely a "one size fits all" wiring harness..and some.models have an alarm feature..

I found the back of Medallion display panel with buzzer...   with the cover off I could hear the buzzer when key was turned on and stayed on until air was >60psi... but not very loud!!!  With dash cover on knowing the sound I  can almost hear it if I lean in. My 2005 knight I could here Low air alarm in back of coach with engine running...  need to go back with some connector probes,  hopefully the alarm is a unique feed to Medallion panel.  There are not that many wires for the number of lights on that panel...  and one connector feed the lid display...  I need a much louder alarm for this..

Will update again once I isolate what feeds buzzer.   Going to my local electronics store and see what they have.  I got lots of old PC beepers,  but I want louder...

JimD  

Measure the voltage of the beeper.  If you can’t find the right one, then get a SPST relay that works or is compatible with the beeper voltage. Then steal a 12 VDC Ignition line and feed it through the relay.  Then any buzzer or beeper or whistle or alarm (12 VDC)…or the cutesy ones that play a tune like the Throne Room scene from Star Wars.  Knock yourself out.  Always GOOD to have a solution with many options….

[dandick66]

54 minutes ago, jad050 said:

Wow, that was easy enough, that cover off you have great access behind dash...  first thing I saw was a wire bundle terminated with a molex connector hanging in air marked "alarm mudule"  thought I found it...  looked a bit more and cam up with more hanging connectors,  realized this is likely a "one size fits all" wiring harness..and some.models have an alarm feature..

I found the back of Medallion display panel with buzzer...   with the cover off I could hear the buzzer when key was turned on and stayed on until air was >60psi... but not very loud!!!  With dash cover on knowing the sound I  can almost hear it if I lean in. My 2005 knight I could here Low air alarm in back of coach with engine running...  need to go back with some connector probes,  hopefully the alarm is a unique feed to Medallion panel.  There are not that many wires for the number of lights on that panel...  and one connector feed the lid display...  I need a much louder alarm for this..

Will update again once I isolate what feeds buzzer.   Going to my local electronics store and see what they have.  I got lots of old PC beepers,  but I want louder...

JimD  

I actually put some electrical tape over mine because it was so loud.  It still is plenty loud.  I found the attached Medallion diagram.  Looks like the buzzer is pin 9 on detail G.  Just to make sure it’s the right pin, I would backprobe it with a test light and turn the ignition switch on and off.  See if the light comes on and off, then you’ll know you have the right pin.  You could probably just clip the wire and then connect your new buzzer.  I would not try to unsolder the buzzer from the PCB.  

2012 Diplomat Medallion(1) 1539-10233-19.pdf

[jad050]

13 hours ago, dandick66 said:

I found the attached Medallion diagram.  

Wow,  my part number is 1539-10399-19... your picture is  1539-10233-19...  pretty d*** close, -19 (match) is likely rev number and connectors match my pictures..  I can find your part number on web for sale at rvsupply (2 in surplus stock, but pricey)).  Nothing with my part number...   Will do a bit of probing, but might just buy board to keep this OEM (and this seems like critical part), and fix other board (I have lab techs that can do this wearing a blindfold).  If it is really loud, might add a momentary switch to silence alarm while I am sitting in drivers seat...  otherwise patch in new "annunciator"...  
Segue: how did you fined this?  I am the guy folks come to to ask how things work/ repair/etc...  I can usually find the needed webpage with a few details, like naming that tune with 3 notes...  I found nothing last night, was thinking of contacting Medallion today...    I watched Pete Townsend on Tonight show last night talking about Broadway show "Tommy"..  Line in my head is "I just handed my pinball crown to him!" 

Thanks...  JimD

13 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Measure the voltage of the beeper.  If you can’t find the right one, then get a SPST relay that works or is compatible with the beeper voltage. Then steal a 12 VDC Ignition line and feed it through the relay.  Then any buzzer or beeper or whistle or alarm (12 VDC)…or the cutesy ones that play a tune like the Throne Room scene from Star Wars.  Knock yourself out.  Always GOOD to have a solution with many options….

Thanks, I want something loud an annoying...  I this thing is beeping I want to not be able to ignore it... 

[dandick66]

13 minutes ago, jad050 said:

Wow,  my part number is 1539-10399-19... your picture is  1539-10233-19...  pretty d*** close, -19 (match) is likely rev number and connectors match my pictures..  I can find your part number on web for sale at rvsupply (2 in surplus stock, but pricey)).  Nothing with my part number...   Will do a bit of probing, but might just buy board to keep this OEM (and this seems like critical part), and fix other board (I have lab techs that can do this wearing a blindfold).  If it is really loud, might add a momentary switch to silence alarm while I am sitting in drivers seat...  otherwise patch in new "annunciator"...  
Segue: how did you fined this?  I am the guy folks come to to ask how things work/ repair/etc...  I can usually find the needed webpage with a few details, like naming that tune with 3 notes...  I found nothing last night, was thinking of contacting Medallion today...    I watched Pete Townsend on Tonight show last night talking about Broadway show "Tommy"..  Line in my head is "I just handed my pinball crown to him!" 

Thanks...  JimD

Thanks, I want something loud an annoying...  I this thing is beeping I want to not be able to ignore it... 

I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn, but I did help Al Gore invent the Internet. Haha. (I hope that was acceptable, Tom.) can’t remember where I found that file to download.  I might have got it from Medallion.  

I understand that you want to hear the alarm, but remember, that alarm will go off for a variety of scenarios.  Driving back from Florida in the rain a few years ago my entry door step switch got wet and set off the alarm.  Listening to the beeping every 2 seconds for hours on end is not pleasant.  Another time I had the “yellow triangle “ illuminate and alarm sound.  It cleared and then did it again.  I discovered that my ACM (after treatment control module) was on the fritz.  It wasn’t a critical problem, but again, that alarm was driving me crazy for hours.  I contacted Medallion several times by phone and email, but no one responded to the emails or returned the calls.  I finally got a human and explained my problem.  She got someone who was somewhat familiar with the system, but he said the guy who did all the work was no longer with the company.  He said he’d send me what info he could find and that he would contact the other guy.  Well, I never heard from the “other guy”.   I’ll go through my emails and find what they sent me.

As far as buying another board, if it was me, I wouldn’t do it.  There are a bunch of other options to get all of the data the Medallion displays, and more.  I started out with Scangauge D, then purchased BlueFire.  I also have the Servicemaxx software.  That is the official Navistar diagnostic software.  It has more bells and whistles than you can imagine.  You do have the Maxxforce 10, right?

[Tom Cherry]

53 minutes ago, dandick66 said:

I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn, but I did help Al Gore invent the Internet. Haha. (I hope that was acceptable, Tom.) can’t remember where I found that file to download.  I might have got it from Medallion.  

I understand that you want to hear the alarm, but remember, that alarm will go off for a variety of scenarios.  Driving back from Florida in the rain a few years ago my entry door step switch got wet and set off the alarm.  Listening to the beeping every 2 seconds for hours on end is not pleasant.  Another time I had the “yellow triangle “ illuminate and alarm sound.  It cleared and then did it again.  I discovered that my ACM (after treatment control module) was on the fritz.  It wasn’t a critical problem, but again, that alarm was driving me crazy for hours.  I contacted Medallion several times by phone and email, but no one responded to the emails or returned the calls.  I finally got a human and explained my problem.  She got someone who was somewhat familiar with the system, but he said the guy who did all the work was no longer with the company.  He said he’d send me what info he could find and that he would contact the other guy.  Well, I never heard from the “other guy”.   I’ll go through my emails and find what they sent me.

As far as buying another board, if it was me, I wouldn’t do it.  There are a bunch of other options to get all of the data the Medallion displays, and more.  I started out with Scangauge D, then purchased BlueFire.  I also have the Servicemaxx software.  That is the official Navistar diagnostic software.  It has more bells and whistles than you can imagine.  You do have the Maxxforce 10, right?

I have covered all those bases...  maybe over a year, at least, as I traveled a lot during my career.  I actually did help AL in his education as I was the Director of Environmental and got awards for energy management and water conservation...  I wrote him constantly.  ALL the above is in gest....and we do NOT want to go down that "slipperly" slope.

I had much better success with Medallion. They walked me through all the set up and such. IF you have the prints...and I assume they are NOT in the Monaco set, please notify @Frank McElroy (PM him) and arrange to upload them. These Medallion prints will be most valuable and he will put them in the file.

Thanks...

[Frank McElroy]

14 hours ago, dandick66 said:

I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn, but I did help Al Gore invent the Internet. Haha. (I hope that was acceptable, Tom.) can’t remember where I found that file to download.  I might have got it from Medallion.  

I understand that you want to hear the alarm, but remember, that alarm will go off for a variety of scenarios.  Driving back from Florida in the rain a few years ago my entry door step switch got wet and set off the alarm.  Listening to the beeping every 2 seconds for hours on end is not pleasant.  Another time I had the “yellow triangle “ illuminate and alarm sound.  It cleared and then did it again.  I discovered that my ACM (after treatment control module) was on the fritz.  It wasn’t a critical problem, but again, that alarm was driving me crazy for hours.  I contacted Medallion several times by phone and email, but no one responded to the emails or returned the calls.  I finally got a human and explained my problem.  She got someone who was somewhat familiar with the system, but he said the guy who did all the work was no longer with the company.  He said he’d send me what info he could find and that he would contact the other guy.  Well, I never heard from the “other guy”.   I’ll go through my emails and find what they sent me.

As far as buying another board, if it was me, I wouldn’t do it.  There are a bunch of other options to get all of the data the Medallion displays, and more.  I started out with Scangauge D, then purchased BlueFire.  I also have the Servicemaxx software.  That is the official Navistar diagnostic software.  It has more bells and whistles than you can imagine.  You do have the Maxxforce 10, right?

Dan - Thanks for sending me the 4 new files.  I added them to the existing 4 files we already had on the Medallion Gauges in our File Downloads.  Here is a link to the set of 8 files.