Analog power use gauges to digital

[MHRookie]

All, 

2003 Dynasty princess.

I currently have the original analog dial AC power in & amp use gauges.  Curious about any upgrades out there that anyone has any experience about.

i know my amp use readings are not correct for either leg.  It always reads low (never gets over 10).  When I look at pedestal surgeguard, it shows higher amp draws (that match more closely with appliances being used & on).  I think the dial gauges are adjustable by the tiny screw under the dials but curious about any digital options.

 

thanks for any input.

Kurt

[Dr4Film]

Is this what you are looking for?

https://tinyurl.com/bd754wvh

[Ivan K]

I have replaced couple of ours with these, about a year ago and working fine. The other two are now unused, saving space for whatever in the future.

[MHRookie]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

I have replaced couple of ours with these, about a year ago and working fine. The other two are now unused, saving space for whatever in the future.

Ivan K,

     Those look like the link that Dr4 sent me.  Are these the units with 4 wires on the back and a ring terminal that a wire runs through?

With yours, is all the wiring done inside the overhead using the wires from the analog dial fixture?

These would be perfect!

Thanks!

 

2 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Is this what you are looking for?

https://tinyurl.com/bd754wvh

Dr4Film,

     These look similar to Ivan’s picture.  I found these today on Amazon and this spurred my post.  Depending on Ivan’s reply, I think this is the direction I will go.   Hope all working is done in the overhead with existing wires.  
 

thanks for reply!

[Ivan K]

Kurt, yes to reused existing 4 wires each behind the panel. They come with closed coils so the existing coils will be replaced in the breaker box, again, using existing wires.

If you have the same analog gauges, the vertical opening is about 1/32 too small but easy to file larger. And the display is always ON when you have AC, if that matters to you. Ours are in the hallway so it's fine at night.

[MHRookie]

Thanks Ivan, I’ll send you a PM for some clarity.

[Tom Cherry]

15 hours ago, MHRookie said:

All, 

2003 Dynasty princess.

I currently have the original analog dial AC power in & amp use gauges.  Curious about any upgrades out there that anyone has any experience about.

i know my amp use readings are not correct for either leg.  It always reads low (never gets over 10).  When I look at pedestal surgeguard, it shows higher amp draws (that match more closely with appliances being used & on).  I think the dial gauges are adjustable by the tiny screw under the dials but curious about any digital options.

 

thanks for any input.

Kurt

OK….THINK OUT OF THE BOX….  Do you have a TRC SurgeGuard ATS (kind with Surge Suppression)?  If so….the MOV’s may be suspect.  If a NON Surge Protection ATS….AND NO Surge Suppressor?.?.

Then, I’d consider a Progressive HW50C.  It has your “gauges”…..but it also protects your electrical devices from about 10 or so “fatal or semifatal” conditions…..the ugly one is an OPEN NEUTRAL.  We have had maybe 100 - 150 plus incidents over the years.  Most were pedestal issues, but many were internal….simple thing like a small “tap” to the 50A molded plug that opened the Neutral.  YES…happened to me.  You then can measure 150-175 VAC on BOTH sides (L1 & L2) of the two 120VAC lines. UGLY does it an injustice describe.

YES….adding the current taps will solve your original problem.  But if you do NOT have Surge protection…..and if you have the TRC, then you may have to “fix” it.  The Progressive, and now current “knock offs” was the FIRST unit designed for plug in or hardwired….with FIELD Serviceable “boards”.  Plug and play and you have error codes.

Just a thought….you’ll spend less time installing a GOOD surge protector and get the benefits.  BTW…an open neutral typically, if not caught, do upwards of $1000 damage….and one member topped $10,000.  The TV and electronics….like the Microwave do NOT tolerate 150-175 VAC LONG.  Also the AC motors do not like it….

Your MH….Your situation….but also some background on the most expensive and common “failure”…

[MHRookie]

55 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

OK….THINK OUT OF THE BOX….  Do you have a TRC SurgeGuard ATS (kind with Surge Suppression)?  If so….the MOV’s may be suspect.  If a NON Surge Protection ATS….AND NO Surge Suppressor?.?.

Then, I’d consider a Progressive HW50C.  It has your “gauges”…..but it also protects your electrical devices from about 10 or so “fatal or semifatal” conditions…..the ugly one is an OPEN NEUTRAL.  We have had maybe 100 - 150 plus incidents over the years.  Most were pedestal issues, but many were internal….simple thing like a small “tap” to the 50A molded plug that opened the Neutral.  YES…happened to me.  You then can measure 150-175 VAC on BOTH sides (L1 & L2) of the two 120VAC lines. UGLY does it an injustice describe.

YES….adding the current taps will solve your original problem.  But if you do NOT have Surge protection…..and if you have the TRC, then you may have to “fix” it.  The Progressive, and now current “knock offs” was the FIRST unit designed for plug in or hardwired….with FIELD Serviceable “boards”.  Plug and play and you have error codes.

Just a thought….you’ll spend less time installing a GOOD surge protector and get the benefits.  BTW…an open neutral typically, if not caught, do upwards of $1000 damage….and one member topped $10,000.  The TV and electronics….like the Microwave do NOT tolerate 150-175 VAC LONG.  Also the AC motors do not like it….

Your MH….Your situation….but also some background on the most expensive and common “failure”…

Tom,

     Thanks for the info here.  I actually have two surge protection measures.  The original surge box installed on the coach (the name escapes me but I know it's NOT the company that made the bad transfer switches).  It might be the "TRC" but I'd have to look.  The small box just has Line 1 & 2 green led's and below that are red.  Thats all the box says is SURGE so I know it won't auto shut down during high or low voltages.  Next up is the Southwire Surgeguard w/auto shut off (installs on the pedestal).  

"MOV'S" - this is something you'll have to enlighten me on.  I assume it has to do with testing the "installed" surge box equipment??? Enlighten me and I'll look into it.  Looking at my wiring diagram, and internet, my surge is a "Leviton" suppressor and it is NOT an all-in-one surge/transfer switch box.  

I am very OCD when it comes to electrical info.  I may not know a ton about the "how to install bits" but I know how to test and check things.  I check the pedestal surgegaurd daily (especially when a lot is running), just to see what the AMP load is on each leg.  Thats' how I was comparing the digital Surgeguard vs analog dial gauge.  I was going to purchase a newer Hughes AF Watchdog PWD50epo as they have a bluetooth app to monitor gauges.  Yes, the Progressive and Hughes product are recommended as they are serviceable.  My current Southwire is not (it does have the protections as you mention above).

Edited April 26 by MHRookie
Updated the Surge suppressor info under "MOV's"

[Dr4Film]

MOV = Metal Oxide Varistor

The heart of many surge protectors available today is a small electronic component called a metal oxide varistor (MOV). The role of the MOV is to divert surge current, however, MOVs wear out with use. As more surges are diverted, the MOV's life span shortens, and failure becomes imminent.

[MHRookie]

2 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

MOV = Metal Oxide Varistor

The heart of many surge protectors available today is a small electronic component called a metal oxide varistor (MOV). The role of the MOV is to divert surge current, however, MOVs wear out with use. As more surges are diverted, the MOV's life span shortens, and failure becomes imminent.

is there a "testing" process or is it a replace when fail part?  

[Tom Cherry]

SOME of the better ATS with Surge will give you an ERROR code.  You will have to get the EXACT PN or Model from the ATS....IF you believe it is a Surge Style.  Call the manufacturer and test.

Richard is correct.  I rarely have had a Surge fail...but several of the ones that I put in our church have bit the dust as the power is crappy and there are often line surges.  

BUT, I recently DID have a Surge fail.  I use a Bekin (Belkin?) Cube Surge on EVERY Item in the home that has a digital display....save the TV's and Computers on a LARGE USPS unit.

The one on the Kitchen Microwave DIED....Wife PANICKED.  It was the SURGE and the TWO Green Lights...."Shone no more".  Simple....the MOV's died.  We have had a few owners with the more advanced SurgeGuard ATS, from say 2006 (Dynasty) and up that got error messages. They WERE electronically inclined.  They removed the old MOV (Looks like a capacitor....memory says) and then installed new ones.  ALL IS WELL.

My only advice...  I had the OEM SurgeGuard Pedestal model in 2006.  It was the STATE of the ART.  NOT CHEAP. I started or joined here in early 2009....and in a few years was asked to moderate...and have been doing that eversince.

I read ALL the information on the SG.  It did NOT have any "warning" light.  Coincidentally, I became acquainted, locally, with Tommy Fannelli... He was the TOP or Chief Field Rep for TRC/SurgeGuard and BOY....was he getting an earful at show and rallies.  The units were not exactly RELIABLE.  The MOV's were dead. SO....NADA.  You COULD send it back...and then, if they could repair it....pay 50% of the cost of a new one....if it was OK, you paid a Shop Charge.  Tommy's brother was an EE.  They designed (probably did a little copying) and then came out with the Progressive Industries products.  That was the MOST advanced Surge unit on the market and there was a BUILT IN ONE.  I scoffed until I started looking at the specs.  I had actually "HARD WIRED" mine and installed in inside the bay....as I got tired of locking the sucker up every time...and some pedestals were so low, it would not "mount or sit" vertically as required.  Then, I but the bullet.  NIGHT AND DAY.  I have the ORIGINAL one.  Tommy sent me a few BETA boards to test some new features.  Eventually, I got the latest "WE SELL THIS" board now.  It has saved me more times than I can recall....especially when the Bay Door (mine swing out) opened up....only on the power of the gas strut.  That little tap hit the power plug.  NO NEUTRAL.  I troubleshot the entire MH and finally....got out the BIG WIRE cutters.  Put on the Camco REPLACEMENT.  All is well. I have moved at least 20 times when the power was too low. 

Not many of the CG or the folks that are maintenance have an electrical background.  They say.... your rig must have one of them stupid meters that is always wrong. 

BUT, then I move...one guy said...  You know..we're getting a LOT more of these complains....but when I move folks to the new section that was wired up last year....that goes away.  HONEST to whomever you trust....he said that.

So, as long as you have a Suppressor and you have read the manual or called the manufacturer and know if there is an "ERROR" or some lights that will come on when the electronics are shot or the MOV's are dead....you are good to go.

BUT, failing to do that, then the Progressive or another, trusted brand, that displays error codes or lights is what I would install and not have all the redundancy.  There are SOME manufactuers that state, unequivally, that having an TWO Surge Suppressors, one plugged into the other, actually DEFEATS their ability to function.

That is what Progressive said....NO INTERNAL surge suppressors are NEEDED if you have their pedestal or hard wired model. That's a much as I can tell you.

Hope this helps...

[Dr4Film]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

  There are SOME manufactures that state, unequivocally, that having  TWO Surge Suppressors, one plugged into the other, actually DEFEATS their ability to function.

I totally disagree with those "manufacturers".

So far, no manufacturer has technically explained why you should NOT do it. To me it is a sales pitch and nothing technical about it. I will continue to daisy-chain MOV's as I have done for the past 20 years or so. After all, THEY have daisy-chained MOV's inside their devices so if it's OK for them to do it inside then what is the "harm" to do it outside?