saflyer Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Camping in southern Missouri and had a big storm last night. On 50a shore power. Now almost all AC power is out. Only the plugs in the bedroom that aren’t powered from the inverter are working. The EMS shows 50a service and the inverter and charger ON lights are illuminated. The batteries are being charged. I reset all of the CBs in the rear run bay and on the inverter with no change. Need help fast. The freezer is almost up to 32°. Ed ‘05 HR Ambassador Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Rikadoo Posted May 26 Solution Share Posted May 26 Have you checked the GFI in the bathroom? Mine failed in Barrago springs in January, had to replace it cause once i reset it it would only hold for 10 seconds then it tripped again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saflyer Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 3 minutes ago, Rikadoo said: Have you checked the GFI in the bathroom? Mine failed in Barrago springs in January, had to replace it cause once i reset it it would only hold for 10 seconds then it tripped again BINGO! Egg on my face. I learned about that shortly after buying the coach over 12 years ago. Had the same issue and posted on this forum. Got a quick response like today. It’s just such an “out of sight, out of mind” item. Thanks a bunch for your quick reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 6 minutes ago, saflyer said: Camping in southern Missouri and had a big storm last night. On 50a shore power. Now almost all AC power is out. Only the plugs in the bedroom that aren’t powered from the inverter are working. The EMS shows 50a service and the inverter and charger ON lights are illuminated. The batteries are being charged. I reset all of the CBs in the rear run bay and on the inverter with no change. Need help fast. The freezer is almost up to 32°. Ed ‘05 HR Ambassador Don’t know if you have a Magnum or a Trace Inverter. There is an ATS inside the inverter that actually powers or controls all the interior outlets. First…find an extension cord and olug the freezer into the bedroom outlet. From the top. AC (shore or Genny) goes through the main ATS to the Main 50A panel. There is a 30 A breaker that feeds the Inverter/Charger. Then there is a relay or an ATS inside the Inverter. As long as the inverter “sees or has a smattering” of a battery bank, it then feeds that 120 (30 A) out. There are two circuits. Microwave is a dedicated circuit…. The other one goes to the GFCI Outlet, usually in the hallway. Then that powers all the interior outlets thatbare supposedly close to water. On a Magnum, there are 3 Pin style circuit brekaers. One is a 30 (incoming from main panel). The other two are the outgoing…Microwave and GFCI. First….is the Microwave clock on? IF SO….then the hall GFCI may be the problem. Check it to see if it is tripped. Reset it. That should do it. If it will not reset, then you need a new one. Leviton or Hubbell or Eaton Wiring Devices (my pick). AGAIN…if you have microwave power….then the GFCI is suspect. They get OLD and CROTCHETY…. BEWARE. The new GFCI’s are NOT the same. You need a 20 A one. BEFORE you pull any wires on the old one….see which wires are going to the LINE (input side…usually only a single Black and White). Probably have 2 sets of black and white, on the bottom. This is the LOAD side. Mark them. NOW look at the back of the nee GFCI. Make sure you identify the LINE and LOAD. Hook up the wires based on the labels….not where they were on the old one. Some are reversed… IF NO power to the bathroom or living area outlets….nor power to the Microwave….then you need to do a hard reset. Magnum works this way….Trace/Freedom generally the same. Turn off battery bank. Turn off main inverter 30 Amp Breaker in the main panel. If the Inverter has a “snap” or a distinct On/OFF switch….turn it OFF. Magnum has a momentary contact…so it will be OFF. Disconnect the POSITIVE red cable to the Inverter. Now push and reset all the pin breakers or whatever is on the Inverter. Wait an HOUR. If you had a fault or s surge in a Magnum….tech support says to let it sit and dissipate the stored charge. Now Reconnect the positive. Turn on the the Battery bank (house). Turn on the 30 A main breaker. If a NON Magnum…turn on the switch to the inverter… IF MAGNUM….push the power button for maybe a second or two. It that doesn’t do it, odds are a lightning strike has hit the inverter. NOT GOOD. Fixing a 19YO inverter is false economy. Purchase a new one….fix the board ($500) and then there are still fans and stuff inside that will fail. Hole into which to pour $$… 12 minutes ago, saflyer said: BINGO! Egg on my face. I learned about that shortly after buying the coach over 12 years ago. Had the same issue and posted on this forum. Got a quick response like today. It’s just such an “out of sight, out of mind” item. Thanks a bunch for your quick reply. OK….copy my post on how to do a hard restart….hang onto it in your phone or laptop. I’d HIGHLY recommend replacing, or at least carrying a SPARE GFCI. You are living on borrowed time….they will fail. Expeciallynif you have a Freezer. Find a good extension cord that you can run the refrigerator from the bedroom outlet… Good luck… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 @saflyer Are you saying that almost the entire coaches VAC power goes through ONE GFI except for the bedroom??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 7 minutes ago, Dr4Film said: @saflyer Are you saying that almost the entire coaches VAC power goes through ONE GFI except for the bedroom??? Yes, Monaco switched to that configuration after they dropped the subpanel in the lower ends. There is NO subpanel like you have or was in your Windsor. Read my post. There is, and it varies from model to model, SOMETIMES, a rear bedroom outlet off the main panel, Otherwise…line 1 out of the inverter to the Microwave. Line 2 to the hallway. GFCI there. Usually two lines on the LOAD side. One to the Refrigerator (icemaker) and maybe to the front TV and such. The “code” outlets near water are daisy chained….and are the other “Load” Romex. Pull a print….that’s how it is done. The Dynasty and up have the subpanel like yours. Camelots and down….are like this. NOW Monaco got, as usual, funky and has junction boxes and such and there are a few models with TWO GFCI’s….and those are a PITA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saflyer Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 50 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said: Don’t know if you have a Magnum or a Trace Inverter. There is an ATS inside the inverter that actually powers or controls all the interior outlets. First…find an extension cord and olug the freezer into the bedroom outlet. From the top. AC (shore or Genny) goes through the main ATS to the Main 50A panel. There is a 30 A breaker that feeds the Inverter/Charger. Then there is a relay or an ATS inside the Inverter. As long as the inverter “sees or has a smattering” of a battery bank, it then feeds that 120 (30 A) out. There are two circuits. Microwave is a dedicated circuit…. The other one goes to the GFCI Outlet, usually in the hallway. Then that powers all the interior outlets thatbare supposedly close to water. On a Magnum, there are 3 Pin style circuit brekaers. One is a 30 (incoming from main panel). The other two are the outgoing…Microwave and GFCI. First….is the Microwave clock on? IF SO….then the hall GFCI may be the problem. Check it to see if it is tripped. Reset it. That should do it. If it will not reset, then you need a new one. Leviton or Hubbell or Eaton Wiring Devices (my pick). AGAIN…if you have microwave power….then the GFCI is suspect. They get OLD and CROTCHETY…. BEWARE. The new GFCI’s are NOT the same. You need a 20 A one. BEFORE you pull any wires on the old one….see which wires are going to the LINE (input side…usually only a single Black and White). Probably have 2 sets of black and white, on the bottom. This is the LOAD side. Mark them. NOW look at the back of the nee GFCI. Make sure you identify the LINE and LOAD. Hook up the wires based on the labels….not where they were on the old one. Some are reversed… IF NO power to the bathroom or living area outlets….nor power to the Microwave….then you need to do a hard reset. Magnum works this way….Trace/Freedom generally the same. Turn off battery bank. Turn off main inverter 30 Amp Breaker in the main panel. If the Inverter has a “snap” or a distinct On/OFF switch….turn it OFF. Magnum has a momentary contact…so it will be OFF. Disconnect the POSITIVE red cable to the Inverter. Now push and reset all the pin breakers or whatever is on the Inverter. Wait an HOUR. If you had a fault or s surge in a Magnum….tech support says to let it sit and dissipate the stored charge. Now Reconnect the positive. Turn on the the Battery bank (house). Turn on the 30 A main breaker. If a NON Magnum…turn on the switch to the inverter… IF MAGNUM….push the power button for maybe a second or two. It that doesn’t do it, odds are a lightning strike has hit the inverter. NOT GOOD. Fixing a 19YO inverter is false economy. Purchase a new one….fix the board ($500) and then there are still fans and stuff inside that will fail. Hole into which to pour $$… OK….copy my post on how to do a hard restart….hang onto it in your phone or laptop. I’d HIGHLY recommend replacing, or at least carrying a SPARE GFCI. You are living on borrowed time….they will fail. Expeciallynif you have a Freezer. Find a good extension cord that you can run the refrigerator from the bedroom outlet… Good luck… Thanks Tom. As usual detailed and thorough information. I’ll do all of the above. Why did Monaco separate out some of the bedroom outlets to not operate off of the inverter? My bed slide has a window on each side with a shelf below it and an outlet below the shelf. That would the ideal place to plug my alarm clock into and set it on that shelf. But noooo, it’s not powered from the inverter. So I have to use an extension cord to an inverter powered plug plus take the clock off the shelf and set it on the floor every time I operate the slide. Annoying at best. Ed 3 minutes ago, saflyer said: Thanks Tom. As usual detailed and thorough information. I’ll do all of the above. Why did Monaco separate out some of the bedroom outlets to not operate off of the inverter? My bed slide has a window on each side with a shelf below it and an outlet below the shelf. That would the ideal place to plug my alarm clock into and set it on that shelf. But noooo, it’s not powered from the inverter. So I have to use an extension cord to an inverter powered plug plus take the clock off the shelf and set it on the floor every time I operate the slide. Annoying at best. Ed BTW, Magnum inverter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 33 minutes ago, saflyer said: Thanks Tom. As usual detailed and thorough information. I’ll do all of the above. Why did Monaco separate out some of the bedroom outlets to not operate off of the inverter? My bed slide has a window on each side with a shelf below it and an outlet below the shelf. That would the ideal place to plug my alarm clock into and set it on that shelf. But noooo, it’s not powered from the inverter. So I have to use an extension cord to an inverter powered plug plus take the clock off the shelf and set it on the floor every time I operate the slide. Annoying at best. Ed BTW, Magnum inverter. One of life’s great mysteries. We had original members of the group starting back in the mid 2000’s that went to rallies and talked to the marketing and designers and such. I don’t have a clue, but they did that. I don’t truthfully know if every Monaco has the AC/Genny ONLY outlet(s) in the bedroom. I have a TV back there and it is on the inverter. But, I don’t remember testing all the outlets back there to see which ones are Inverter or AC only. Many have lamented that there was no CPAP outlet. @Larry Laursen is one of experts on the mid 2000’s electrical systems. Maybe he can chime in and provide insight. If you PM me, I’ll give you some help on isolating your refrigerator (icemaker) circuit from the LOAD side and then doing s simple (move) of that line. That will put it on the LINE side…which is where it should have been. The heater coils in the refrigerator will cause false positives and trip the GFCI needlessly. Over 50 have done such and are very satisfied. If you are capable of replacing the GFCI, then it is easy… Glad you got it resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Laursen Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 Inverter and non-inverter outlets are always a topic of consternation. Why in some coaches are there either none, one or maybe two non-inverter outlets? I have one in my bedroom and remainder of outlets are on the single inverter circuit. Some reasons I heard from Monaco techs at rallies were: MSW inverters killed some CPAP machines and alarm clocks. I have an alarm clock that falls in that category and have to reset it after each power disconnect. Regarding the GFCI and icemaker; I discovered several years ago that if I turned the refrigerator off while in storage, the GFIC would trip on restart of the refrigerator. Most of the time I would just unplug the icemaker from the inverter outlet until the freezer reached a freezing temp. Then when I reconnected the icemaker it was okay. Why? Apparently, there was moisture in the icemaker control that upset the GFCI and after freezing it was okay. This happened when I lived in Michigan, and I haven't had the same problem in Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 9 minutes ago, Larry Laursen said: Inverter and non-inverter outlets are always a topic of consternation. Why in some coaches are there either none, one or maybe two non-inverter outlets? I have one in my bedroom and remainder of outlets are on the single inverter circuit. Some reasons I heard from Monaco techs at rallies were: MSW inverters killed some CPAP machines and alarm clocks. From what I understood, it was to prevent owners powering heated blankets on MSW inverter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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