Battery monitoring shunt install location with Xantrex inverter

[Ivan K]

I am going to install a battery shunt to monitor charge/discharge/SOC status and deciding on a location to install it out of the elements since these are not weather proof. I was thinking to put it right beside the inverter ground terminal (where my solar charge also grounds) since I don't know where the other side of the ground cable terminates. I know some of you are using Victron shunt or similar type that uses ground path and had gone through this already and could offer an advice.  Thanks.

[KevinH]

Not sure what inverter you have I just installed one last winter and I went with the BMK by magnum. I installed the Shunt and module in the battery compartment and put the module in a weatherproof electrical box. I looked into Victron shunt and After reading others that had installed them I opted not to use that. It had something to do with the Bluetooth capabilities. I think the one I installed is awesome I know exactly what the batteries Capacity is  and I know exactly how many amps are being drawn from the batteries at any given time. Hope this helps

[Ivan K]

Thank You Kevin, does the shunt get hot in the box? My inverter is by Xantrex, 3kw. My concern was also with tension on the cable when sliding the battery shelf out but suppose a good rigid mounted box would take care of it. I also read the Bluetooth range concerns and that's a shame because my controller and volt/temp monitor are Victron and work fine with their network app. I decided to test this cheap $40 monitor because of it's good reviews. No BT and no history but crazy low price. The display cable routing would be a pain with our floor plan so I would mount the display in a basement compartment for now which it usually open to watch outside TV anyway.

[vito.a]

The ground for our Trace Xantrex inverter was in the main basement compartment from the inverter up to the frame rail.  I added the shunt to the basement ceiling and made up one new cable to go from it to the frame rail.  

I later upgraded to a Magnum inverter with a Magnum ME-BMK, but the wiring remains the same.  

[Mark B]

Ivan, I installed the Victron BMV-712 in the electrical bay next to my battery compartment. I made my own cable for the monitor and ran it to the cabinet where my inverter controls are. That was a chore. The Bluetooth comes from the monitor so no issue for me. If you opt for the model that has Bluetooth and no display it could be an issue to get signal to the pilot. I have a DC to DC smart charger and I rarely see the signal up front, My mppt solar controller sometimes has issues with the signal as well. As long as I know the SOC I'm good. I learned a lot when putting this stuff in. My system works great for me.

 

 

[Ivan K]

Great pictures gentlemen, thank you! Very nice work. I do not have an electrical bay since most of that 12V stuff is in the engine room and my inverter and Victron controller hang on driver side basement ceiling. Seems similar to Vito's configuration. I'll try to trace down the inverter ground to frame rail connection, that would make it easier if in the compartment. Just need to take down the huge ceiling cover for the hundreds time to see if I missed it previously. But if there, I can route the display cable up through toilet cabinet into the hall just like for the EMS. Fingers crossed. Thanks again!

[Ivylog]

The shunt needs to go between the batteries and the ground, not at the inverter… you have other things drawing on your batteries than just the inverter and my alternator charges my house batteries.

Like Ivan ^^^ I went with a $40 SOC/shunt on my 600AH of Lithium batteries I built. Was able to mount the round indicator in the BR…handier than the basement.

Planning on adding another 600AH of Lithiums with another $40 SOC/shunt with the indicator in the BR too. I need to run 120V power to the battery area so I can heat it (light bulb or heater) when it’s below freezing. Will run the indicator’s cable through the same hole in the floor… hopefully one already in it.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Ivylog

[Ivan K]

Yeah, that is true in my case too, however my charts show that the only element bypassing the inverter ground is a maintainer. I realize that it could possibly take up to 15A of unaccounted current but since I have a dedicated panel and controller setup just for chassis, I think the only time I see it maintaining is when plugged in under carport. I'll have to decide whether to accept some yet unknown inaccuracies in lieu of possibly easier install... I am imagining that as the solar quits in the evening,  house voltage drops below AMP-L trigger and maintaining quits, taking itself out of the equation. Evenings are when I watch that batteries most since we tend to stay up late. Not quite sure what that may do to SOC calculations. 

[Ivylog]

Pretty sure the house + batteries cable is a Y to the inverter and the Rear Run Box. Everything the “Salesman” switch controls is powered from the RRB. The alternator charges the engine batteries and once they get to 13.4+/- the BIRD energizes the BigBoy in the RRB connecting the 2 battery bank’s together letter the alternator charge the house batteries…this could be hundreds of AHs that go unmetered.

Sorry, but I think you’ll be wasting $40 and the time to put the shunt in the wrong place at the inverter.

[Ivan K]

Yes I agree that positive battery branches out but negative should only go to ground through inverter and originally Lambert, now AMP-L. In my case, the only way the battery banks would connect is with boost solenoid and that would only be a manual emergency action. Don't have a BIRD. I am not really concerned with what happens when alternator runs while driving, only when longterm stationary boondocking. But no doubt, to take full advantage of the $40 'investment' I should put the shunt in battery negative lead. Just trying to figure out an elegant installation since my battery compartment regularly gets nasty with all the vents and flooded batteries. A picture of the install would help. Thanks for the comments to keep me thinking.

[Ivan K]

To close this post, off, at the end I have decided to add a junction box inside the battery compartment and put the shunt in it, between battery negative and ground lead. Since I installed SeeLevel monitor at the same time and it only needed 2 wires (one of them ground) from all the sensors combined,  it left me with 5 existing leads to use for the new battery display right to where I wanted it, in the original control panel. Replaced the old tank level gauge with the new display. Worked out great and works. Thanks for the pointers you all gave me on this subject. 

[jacwjames]

Instead of starting a new post I figured I'd just piggy back on this one.

I'm looking at installing a battery monitor.   I searched the archives and this post seems to be the most pertinent. 

What is everyone recommending for a monitor, I've seen the Victron BMV712 mentioned along with the BMV702 (?).  

Is there an option that has both the display and bluetooth capability.  I would like the option of bluetooth but not 100% necessary.

 

I am in the process of cleaning/painting my battery tray and thought it might be a good time to tackle this.  Besides the main negative terminal I have an extra ~6awg wire attached to my negative terminal.  I checked my wiring diagrams and it doesn't show this wire, anyone know what it might be?  I may have to trace to confirm what it is where it goes. 

When I changed my batteries last year the best I could do at the time was scrape out the dirt and flaking paint before installing the batteries.  It looked bad so I finally decided to pull the batteries, clean and paint.  There was a recent post on batteries and I was imbarrased as to what mine looked like.  I've ordered and received a set of the Water Miser caps which should help going forward.   Surprisingly when I pulled the batteries and cleaned up the tray (scrapping, cleaning, Naval Jelly, washing repeat) the tray actually cleaned up good.  I was anticipating having to repair the tray but no need.  Today plan to use wire brush in air grinder to finish cleaning and then paint.  Just going with the Rustoleum 2-3 coats.   Figure with the addition of the Water Miser caps the amount of corrosion will be greatly reduced. 

 

 

[Ivan K]

The Victron 712 monitor got BT function you are looking for and supposed to be good. I went with a much cheaper option and no Bluetooth capability since I get most of that from my Victron solar controller, granted with no discharge current reading. I usually only look at the discharge reading before going to bed, to see if something was left on that wasn't supposed to be. You may also get a Victron BT shunt that does not need a display but the range is apparently very limited. There is an other manufacturer with good ratings (forgot the name), maybe better than Victron because it holds history readings but it goes on positive side of battery and I did not want to do that. I also have a little 2 wire Victron Smart battery monitor at the batteries that transmits battery temp and voltage, to the solar controller wirelessly and networks to the same app. So many options... we boondock weeks at a time and this works well for me.

[jacwjames]

Thanks Ivan, when I looked at the info I missed that it has Bluetooth.  Like the idea of being able to monitor on the display and phone.

 

Any idea what the extra wire on my (-) terminal  is for?

[Ivan K]

Jim, I checked pictures of my batteries and besides a couple small gauge wires for my power pulse and monitor, there is one that I assume for the CO and LPG detectors, does not look like #6 though, maybe 8ga at most.

[jacwjames]

I'm going to trace this down, I was careful when I removed and am sure it was on the negative post.   It's a white wire but I've learned this doesn't necessarily mean anything. 

 

[jacwjames]

I checked the wire again, it is white but only 14 awg, no numbers/markings identifying what it is.  

Not going to fool with trying to trace until after I get the battery tray painted so I can blow out from under the motor home, way to much dust/dirt/paint chips to be crawling around under the motorhome now.

[jacwjames]

FWIW

I went ahead and traced the wire this AM.  It went to the passenger side rear electrical bay and was attached to the Lambert 415 maintainer, which I had removed when I installed a Bluesea ML-ACR.  So I can remove this wire completely. 

[jacwjames]

So I went ahead and ordered a Victron BMV712 smart monitor.  After scoping out options as to where to install the display I decided to install it in the same cabinet as my inverter monitor, tank levels, and solar monitor.   To to this I had to tear up the bottoms of the overhead cabinets to get to the refrigerator location and then from there down to the wire/pipe trough through the half bath and under the bedroom vanity and base drawer cabinets.  At that point it was decision time as to how to get the communication wire to the passenger side electrical bay where I was going to mount the shunt (this is the same place Mark B mounted his).  I decided to drill a hole in floor, which was directly above the location of the shunt, and I mounted a 1/2 Jbox and ran flexible conduit to the lower back side of the enclosure and brought the conduit in from the side.   So far so good.

The communication cable that came with the Victron was not long enough so I thought I could extend with a standard Ethernet cable which is RJ45>>>>WRONG, it is and RJ12 which is not readily available at the big box stores, so I had to pull the original cable back out and run a piece of Cat5 cable and bought a crimp tool and ends to have one cable from front to back. 

I had ordered a 5' 4/0 cable with the ends correct size hole ends attached.   So to get the cable through the back wall of the enclosure I decide to drill holes large enough to accept a PVC fitting (1" to 1.25 adapter) and I cut the larger portion off which left a shoulder the I was able to fasten to the wall.  Used exterior silicone to seal all of this.  Removed the (-) battery cable and pulled it through the appropriate hole I had drilled and mounted the PVC adapter in.  Installed the new 5' cable that I bought.  Mounted the shunt and attached the 4/0 cables to the shunt.  So far so good.

Ran the small power wire (with the fuse removed) and got that all ready.

Drilled a large hole to mount the Victron display in the cabinet and plugged the communication cable end in.  Plugged the other end of the communication in at the shunt.  So far so good.

OK it's go time, put he fuse in and went to look at the display and it is showing some  jiberish.  NOT GOOD.  I had found a post about the wiring colors for the communication line and followed that but I had made a mistake on one end so redid it.   (Blue, orange, green, green/white, orange/white, blue/white).  Plugged it all back in and the display seems to be working, at least showing the correct voltage but still a little jiberish.   Do the wires reverse on either end of the cable.  I'm going to try and look at the old cable but hard to see. 

So I tried to connect it to my phone via bluetooth and my phone does not show the device.  I am in the process of troubleshooting this but thought I ask if anybody has any suggestions on getting to connect.  Going to see if my laptop will connect    ANYTHING else I can look at?????   So far not so good!!!!!

[jacwjames]

Well, gave it the old college try and still could anything to connect to the Victron BMV712 via bluetooth.   

I checked the wiring from the original cable and it appears that is it wired straight through with the wires in the same order on either end.  I checked the ends that I installed and they are correct.  I took the monitor the passenger side rear electrical bay and used the original wire to plug it in.  It is displaying correctly but still would not connect via bluetooth.

I uninstalled the app from both my phone and laptop and reinstalled.  I reset the monitor again and pulled the fuse that provides power to the shunt hoping it might reset it. 

I could get the laptop to pair with monitor but based on the manual you should not have it paired so I removed it from the bluetooth list.  Neither the laptop or phone app will connect to the monitor.  I am going to take my tablet out there after I get the app loaded and try again with it. 

I am somewhat disappointed in technical support from Victron, it basically just sends you to the manual.  They do have a community share site but it is hit or miss.  No contact information for tech support, only sales.  And there is no sales listed in the USA, only Canada which makes it inconvenient for me since my T-Mobile plan does not include Canada.   I did send an email to one of the contacts and maybe I'll hear back.

Does anyone have any other suggestions before I pack the thing back up and send it back. 

[Ivan K]

I don't have your monitor but have couple of other victron boxes. Does anything show as an available device in the app when you open the app in its proximity? Like this?

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

I don't have your monitor but have couple of other victron boxes. Does anything show as an available device in the app when you open the app in its proximity? Like this?

I've tried 3 different devices (Iphone, laptop, tablet) all with the VictronConnect app and none of them show the device. 

I could get it to show when I searched with my laptap using bluetooth and was able to pair it.  I deleted it since I read this could cause a conflict. 

I've deleted/unistalled the app and tried again and still haven't had any success. 

Running out of ideas. 

[Ivan K]

Strange, I don't remember any troubles,  only had to have the BT turned ON, been a while. I use it with android phone and tablet. But when I look at my BT settings now, both my devices show as paired eventhough I am out of range of them so maybe you should not delete them?

[jacwjames]

I can't get my phone to even see the device but I can get my laptop to pair with it.  But in the troubleshooting guide it says not to pair with it.  I did try and connect with it paired and it didn't work.

I sent an email to the Victron Sales contact and they responded this morning, I sent them the SN of the device and there is suppose to be someone from Victron contacting me. 

I did go on Amazon and there was a tech support tab/link on my order page so I contacted them but unfortunately he was no real helpful, just using the info I had already looked at and tried.   Funny thing is he offered to give a "partial" refund and let me keep the device but I told him is pretty much worthless to me as it stands so if I can't get it to work I'll submit for a full refund and get a new one and try it all over again!!

I am going to give one last "college" try and go out and go through the steps one more time.  The setup should be straight forward from everything I've read so no idea what's going on. 

[jacwjames]

Well, I did delete and then reinstall the Victron Connect APP on my phone last night.  Came out to the coach and tried it AND IT WORKED !!!!

No idea why because I tried this twice before without success.  So the App recognized the BMV712 and updated the APP.  From there I was connected.  I can see the display.  Now have to confirm all the settings! 

But what's funny is that neither my laptop or tablet will work.  My laptop will pair with BMV712 but when I use the APP it doesn't find it.  I tried with and without it paired.  Tablet won't find it either. 

But for now I've got to button up the project, put all the floors in the overhead cabinets from where I pulled the wires, put the display in the cabinet, load everything back into the cabinets, and put the inverter display back in place and a couple other minor things. 

So ONE out of THREE is good enough for now, maybe at some point I can get them to connect I'm good!!😁

Thanks for all the replies and assistance!!