Help with Air Tanks and leaks

[isptbart]

9 hours ago, Jdw12345 said:

The purge valve on the bottom of the air dryer.

OK - Thanks! Bart

10 hours ago, Jimmer said:

What was your procedure of refitting the leaking line?

The brass fitting is the quick release type! Push the exterior ring (at the base of the fitting where the hose goes into the fitting) towards the fitting & gently pull out the hose. I removed the fitting & replaced with a new fitting after trying to reuse the old fitting (old fitting still leaked - not the hose). DO NOT USE Teflon take - use only a liquid/paste thread sealant & don't apply any too close to the threaded open end of the fitting. Trim off about an 1" of hose (if you have excess hose) & push in the hose as far in as it will go. Build up air pressure & use spray soapy water to test for a proper fit & no leaks.

Bart from VA

[jacwjames]

If you live near any large metro area there should be suppliers of the tubing/hose and fittings.  I live near Knoxville TN and Royal Brass and hose has a large warehouse.  They had all the fittings I needed and I bought some lengths of tubing to carry as spare.  They can also make up any type of hydraulic hose. 

[Guest Ray Davis]

I live in rural east tx, and while I was having 2 hydraulic hoses made for my tractor, I noticed they had isles with rows of  bins with a huge selection of fittings.  All out front where I could shop away.   So, a hydraulic shop may also be a source of fittings for many of you.  

[isptbart]

Thanks for the fitting purchase leads guys!

Bart from VA 

[amphi_sc]

I found my two leaks, one I can get a part number off of, the other no idea.  Here's the pics.  Any clues as to what the unknown aluminum color one is?  They are right next to each other on the tank. The 4143 one I can find.

Edited December 8, 2021 by amphi_sc
Added one more pic of unknown part

[Hypoxia]

1 hour ago, amphi_sc said:

I found my two leaks, one I can get a part number off of, the other no idea.  Here's the pics.  Any clues as to what the unknown aluminum color one is?  They are right next to each other on the tank. The 4143 one I can find.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163052706531

I normally just replace the top hat & guts without removing the main body from the coach.

[amphi_sc]

3 hours ago, Hypoxia said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163052706531

I normally just replace the top hat & guts without removing the main body from the coach.

Link goes to error page for that item.  What search term should I try for another one?

Thanks

[Hypoxia]

Hendrickson VS-1128

[jacwjames]

So I had all but one new check valve so I put everything back together yesterday.  First time I filled the air tanks I had one bad leak from a Push To Connect fitting, I did not seat the hose far enough in so it leak to the point I could hear it.  Redid the connection and it was better, still leaked a very little.  I also had some bubbles at two small air solenoid valves.    I sprayed down every fitting from the compressor>Air Dryer, and all the fittings on the tanks and for the braking system.   

But I decided to see how the system held up overnight even with the small leaks.  The air held at 90 psi overnight even with the small leaks.  So this AM I went in and tightened up the solenoid valves and PTC fittings.  Still have a couple small bubbles, I am going to get new fittings, the two that are leaking are old fittings.  I'll see how the pressure holds up over the next couple days. 

After I get the new check valve and two new fittings I think I'll my air leakage problem solved.

FWIW, I checked the prices on the fittings I bought locally and it appears they are far cheaper then what I can buy on line.  So sometimes it does pay to shop locally. 

 

Now onto the next project. 

[isptbart]

37 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

So I had all but one new check valve so I put everything back together yesterday.  First time I filled the air tanks I had one bad leak from a Push To Connect fitting, I did not seat the hose far enough in so it leak to the point I could hear it.  Redid the connection and it was better, still leaked a very little.  I also had some bubbles at two small air solenoid valves.    I sprayed down every fitting from the compressor>Air Dryer, and all the fittings on the tanks and for the braking system.   

But I decided to see how the system held up overnight even with the small leaks.  The air held at 90 psi overnight even with the small leaks.  So this AM I went in and tightened up the solenoid valves and PTC fittings.  Still have a couple small bubbles, I am going to get new fittings, the two that are leaking are old fittings.  I'll see how the pressure holds up over the next couple days. 

After I get the new check valve and two new fittings I think I'll my air leakage problem solved.

FWIW, I checked the prices on the fittings I bought locally and it appears they are far cheaper then what I can buy on line.  So sometimes it does pay to shop locally. 

 

Now onto the next project. 

Great! Mine is holding about the same pressures overnight! So moving on to other pre-trip list items! Bart from VA

[vanwill52]

5 hours ago, jacwjames said:

So I had all but one new check valve so I put everything back together yesterday.  First time I filled the air tanks I had one bad leak from a Push To Connect fitting, I did not seat the hose far enough in so it leak to the point I could hear it.  Redid the connection and it was better, still leaked a very little.  I also had some bubbles at two small air solenoid valves.    I sprayed down every fitting from the compressor>Air Dryer, and all the fittings on the tanks and for the braking system.   

But I decided to see how the system held up overnight even with the small leaks.  The air held at 90 psi overnight even with the small leaks.  So this AM I went in and tightened up the solenoid valves and PTC fittings.  Still have a couple small bubbles, I am going to get new fittings, the two that are leaking are old fittings.  I'll see how the pressure holds up over the next couple days. 

After I get the new check valve and two new fittings I think I'll my air leakage problem solved.

FWIW, I checked the prices on the fittings I bought locally and it appears they are far cheaper then what I can buy on line.  So sometimes it does pay to shop locally. 

 

Now onto the next project. 

Jim, although we have never met in person, I have come to know that you are a methodical, meticulous man.  (Those solid sassafrass doors you made for your house are spectacular!)  You don't criticize others, or offer advice on subjects with which you have no PERSONAL experience.  THAT is the ideal that Bill D wanted his website to be built on, and I'm sure the "crusty ol' buzzard" is looking down favorably on you.

I repeat that these PTC fittings are entirely reliable, BUT Monaco often failed to observe the manufacturer's admonition that the nylon tubing exiting the fittings must have at least enough "slack" to allow the tubing to exit STRAIGHT from the fitting.  And the tubing must be cut off very cleanly and squarely (razor blade works well).  There are some tubing-cutting devices offered online that are much like battery cable cutters, that leave a bad burr on the cut tubing.  If you do not follow these common-sense guidelines, over time, the connection will leak.  Even if you must use "butt connectors" to add in some extra nylon line, that is a good choice.  I always try to find something "sturdy and stationary" to fasten those nylon tubes to with a zip-tie, so that the wind underneath the coach is not "whipping" them around AT THE FITTING.  Sometimes, I have to weld or bolt in that extra support.

Yes, I went "anal" looking for leaks.  Not sure it was worth it, once I got past being able to park overnight and not get below 90 PSI, but I did.  I suspect you will do the same.  You can unquestionably reach that goal of nearly zero leakage overnight.  It just depends on whether you think it's worth the effort.

Good luck, my Brother!

[96 EVO]

Yeah, you could probably spend enough time under your coach repairing small leaks until they take you away in the white jacket 🤪!

[Jimmer]

1 hour ago, vanwill52 said:

Jim, although we have never met in person, I have come to know that you are a methodical, meticulous man.  (Those solid sassafrass doors you made for your house are spectacular!)  You don't criticize others, or offer advice on subjects with which you have no PERSONAL experience.  THAT is the ideal that Bill D wanted his website to be built on, and I'm sure the "crusty ol' buzzard" is looking down favorably on you.

I repeat that these PTC fittings are entirely reliable, BUT Monaco often failed to observe the manufacturer's admonition that the nylon tubing exiting the fittings must have at least enough "slack" to allow the tubing to exit STRAIGHT from the fitting.  And the tubing must be cut off very cleanly and squarely (razor blade works well).  There are some tubing-cutting devices offered online that are much like battery cable cutters, that leave a bad burr on the cut tubing.  If you do not follow these common-sense guidelines, over time, the connection will leak.  Even if you must use "butt connectors" to add in some extra nylon line, that is a good choice.  I always try to find something "sturdy and stationary" to fasten those nylon tubes to with a zip-tie, so that the wind underneath the coach is not "whipping" them around AT THE FITTING.  Sometimes, I have to weld or bolt in that extra support.

Yes, I went "anal" looking for leaks.  Not sure it was worth it, once I got past being able to park overnight and not get below 90 PSI, but I did.  I suspect you will do the same.  You can unquestionably reach that goal of nearly zero leakage overnight.  It just depends on whether you think it's worth the effort.

Good luck, my Brother!

I had 3 lines that come into the fitting at a very steep angle but not leaking at the lines entry.  Then i had to add extra line  joined by a union. Another source for more leaks with more fittings. DOT compressed fittings are inexpensive but not find any swivel ones.  At 24 hours later both needles have stooped and have leveled of at 70psi.

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, you could probably spend enough time under your coach repairing small leaks until they take you away in the white jacket 🤪!

When I first started on this issue I considered important, loosing enough air to cause the low air to come on in <1 hour to me was a cause for concern. 

Once I started on first finding and then fixing the leaks there was no turning back.  I have 95% of the problem fixed.  The current very very small leaks are self inflicted.  But if I'm going to work on the rig I am going to make sure it is fixed right.  

If they put me in a white coat at the end of the day, so be it. 

1 hour ago, vanwill52 said:

Jim, although we have never met in person, I have come to know that you are a methodical, meticulous man.  (Those solid sassafrass doors you made for your house are spectacular!)  You don't criticize others, or offer advice on subjects with which you have no PERSONAL experience.  THAT is the ideal that Bill D wanted his website to be built on, and I'm sure the "crusty ol' buzzard" is looking down favorably on you.

I repeat that these PTC fittings are entirely reliable, BUT Monaco often failed to observe the manufacturer's admonition that the nylon tubing exiting the fittings must have at least enough "slack" to allow the tubing to exit STRAIGHT from the fitting.  And the tubing must be cut off very cleanly and squarely (razor blade works well).  There are some tubing-cutting devices offered online that are much like battery cable cutters, that leave a bad burr on the cut tubing.  If you do not follow these common-sense guidelines, over time, the connection will leak.  Even if you must use "butt connectors" to add in some extra nylon line, that is a good choice.  I always try to find something "sturdy and stationary" to fasten those nylon tubes to with a zip-tie, so that the wind underneath the coach is not "whipping" them around AT THE FITTING.  Sometimes, I have to weld or bolt in that extra support.

Yes, I went "anal" looking for leaks.  Not sure it was worth it, once I got past being able to park overnight and not get below 90 PSI, but I did.  I suspect you will do the same.  You can unquestionably reach that goal of nearly zero leakage overnight.  It just depends on whether you think it's worth the effort.

Good luck, my Brother!

Thanks Van,

Appreciate the words of support.  Being able to turn the key and not have the low air alarm come on is well worth the effort.   And knowing that I'm driving down the road with air leaking out of all the fittings is even better. 

I'm going to buy a couple new fittings and go at it one last time when I get the last check valve I have on order. 

Either way I'm going to get it fixed right and once and for all to last another 20 years.

[vanwill52]

46 minutes ago, Jimmer said:

I had 3 lines that come into the fitting at a very steep angle but not leaking at the lines entry.  Then i had to add extra line  joined by a union. Another source for more leaks with more fittings. DOT compressed fittings are inexpensive but not find any swivel ones.  At 24 hours later both needles have stooped and have leveled of at 70psi.

There are DEFINITELY swivel fittings.  Keep looking.  They mitigate the requirement to keep the lines exiting the fittings straight, but they do make it easier.  I used several swivel fittings in my "quest".

[Jimmer]

17 minutes ago, vanwill52 said:

There are DEFINITELY swivel fittings.  Keep looking.  They mitigate the requirement to keep the lines exiting the fittings straight, but they do make it easier.  I used several swivel fittings in my "quest".

Yes, i find swivels in the push-to-connect fittings but not the compression connectors

[96 EVO]

2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

When I first started on this issue I considered important, loosing enough air to cause the low air to come on in <1 hour to me was a cause for concern. 

 

I hear ya!

That would never be acceptable to me either!

I can sit about a week to 10 days before I've lost enough tank pressure to set off the low pressure chime. 

What makes me even happier (knock on wood), I never loose air in the air bags! 

[vanwill52]

21 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

I hear ya!

That would never be acceptable to me either!

I can sit about a week to 10 days before I've lost enough tank pressure to set off the low pressure chime. 

What makes me even happier (knock on wood), I never loose air in the air bags! 

Evo, (you aren't actually still riding one, are you?  I'm still on a 2007 Ultra...that will lift the front wheel in 1st and 2nd -- 105 ci, CNC ported heads, Huge air filter, SuperTrapp, Thundermax, Baker 7-speed and different front and rear sprockets.)

Because of the PPV (Pressure Prevention Valves), your braking system will not lose air pressure AS LONG AS THE PPV VALVES ARE NOT LEAKING.  It will stop losing air pressure (to the suspension system) at about 60 PSI, stop supplying the air bags, and save the air pressure for your braking system.

So, you have two "almost" separate systems where air can be lost.  If your RHV (ride height valves) leak, but your PPV valves function properly, your coach will settle onto its stops, but your pressure gages will indicate you still have 60 PSI (approx) to operate your brakes.  IF your PPV valves leak, but your ride height valves are air-tight, you will lose all tank pressure, but your ride height will remain at traveling height.

Does that make sense to you?  I'm trying to explain as best I can, after spending many, many hours anally chasing small leaks.

[jacwjames]

If there is a positive side to having this issue is that it forced me to look at my air system.  I never really understood the specifics of the system including the safety aspect of how it was designed.

So in the future I'll be much more likely to work on it. 

Plus to be able to work on the coach I had to make 6 ramps for me to get the coach up higher.  I now have them to use when I need to do future maintenance.  Another plus.

[96 EVO]

11 hours ago, vanwill52 said:

Evo, (you aren't actually still riding one, are you?  I'm still on a 2007 Ultra...that will lift the front wheel in 1st and 2nd -- 105 ci, CNC ported heads, Huge air filter, SuperTrapp, Thundermax, Baker 7-speed and different front and rear sprockets.)

 

Occasionally!

She's a 1996, and I think I may have 25K miles on her now 😀!

[jacwjames]

So I finally was able to replace the last check valve in the air system on the front tank yesterday.  It had been 4 days since I last aired up the system and I was still holding enough pressure so that the Low Air Alarm did not sound when I turned the key on. 

I replaced the front check valve but also redid three of the small air leaks I had in the rear.  I ended up cutting off ~1/2" piece of tubing on two of the leaks and reseating the tubing into the fitting.  Also tightened up a small fitting on a couple of air solenoids on the back leveling system. 

Interesting to note that when I started the coach and charged the system it took substantially less time then when I first started fixing the leaks.  As of now I can not find any more leaks in my system.  I'm sure it will bleed down over time but at this moment in time the system is about as tight as you can get.  As soon as I drive it off the ramps the whole story changes😀

Edited December 14, 2021 by jacwjames

[isptbart]

J - that is great! I just replaced two of my 4 air valves at the front of my RV next to the generator. I put 2 new ball valve cut-offs as an additional precaution to help prevent an air leak at those two points. About $42 total for the three parts.  See photos.

Bart from VA, 07 HR 42PLQ

[96 EVO]

On 12/5/2021 at 6:34 AM, isptbart said:

  The tech pointed out neither of my two air tanks have a way to drain the tanks w/o actually removing drain plugs & suggested I could add one of the various spring-loaded air tank drain valves to make things easy. I'm looking for the best style for my potential use. Does anyone else have such a valve installed on their air tanks?

The 3 bottom valves in your picture ARE your tank drains.

[isptbart]

If you have fittings with air lines located at the bottom of your air tanks, then you have drains. Air lines at the bottom are for the specific purpose to push out any moisture (when opened) - that is why they are there. You can trace your airlines to see where they go. The drain valves I had on one motor home were at the rear of the coach. The drain valves on my present coach are located up front on a brace next to my generator as shown above. I actually have 3 drain valves in a bank of four valves. In my photo above the lower two valves are only for drainage. The second valve from the top with a male fitting is actually for dual purposes; 1) the drain line for my "wet tank" & 2) can also be used for feeding air into my system from an outside source such as my shop compressor.  I used that valve to air up my coach & constantly keep air in the system in order to check for leaks - w/o running the coach engine compressor. The top valve (female air fitting) is used to charge the brake system, in the case of emergency for a tow by a wrecker, to release my emergency brakes if needed.

[Jimmer]

1 hour ago, isptbart said:

If you have fittings with air lines located at the bottom of your air tanks, then you have drains. Air lines at the bottom are for the specific purpose to push out any moisture (when opened) - that is why they are there. You can trace your airlines to see where they go. The drain valves I had on one motor home were at the rear of the coach. The drain valves on my present coach are located up front on a brace next to my generator as shown above. I actually have 3 drain valves in a bank of four valves. In my photo above the lower two valves are only for drainage. The second valve from the top with a male fitting is actually for dual purposes; 1) the drain line for my "wet tank" & 2) can also be used for feeding air into my system from an outside source such as my shop compressor.  I used that valve to air up my coach & constantly keep air in the system in order to check for leaks - w/o running the coach engine compressor. The top valve (female air fitting) is used to charge the brake system, in the case of emergency for a tow by a wrecker, to release my emergency brakes if needed.

Very Interesting. All of these posts just keep getting better. I  have the top two but not the bottom two. I wonder where they are on my 03 Windsor.  I will have chase them down. I just entered the DP family last December. A lot to learn.

Thanks to all you guys.