Help with Air Tanks and leaks

[jacwjames]

14 minutes ago, Jimmer said:

Very Interesting. All of these posts just keep getting better. I  have the top two but not the bottom two. I wonder where they are on my 03 Windsor.  I will have chase them down. I just entered the DP family last December. A lot to learn.

Thanks to all you guys.

My 2002 Windsor tank drains are on the bottom of the tanks.  Two on the front tank and one on the rear tank.  Mine are manual so I have to crawl under the coach to check them but I usually do this when I'm servicing the coach, no big deal to crack the valves to check for moisture. 

But in 2003 Monaco changed the Windsor design so your's may be different. 

 

[isptbart]

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

My 2002 Windsor tank drains are on the bottom of the tanks.  Two on the front tank and one on the rear tank.  Mine are manual so I have to crawl under the coach to check them but I usually do this when I'm servicing the coach, no big deal to crack the valves to check for moisture. 

But in 2003 Monaco changed the Windsor design so your's may be different. 

 

Jim - I would think it would be an easy task for you to remove your two drain plugs/valves, replace with a 1/4" hose fitting & run the hose over to a convenient spot to access either manually with a ball valve, radiator type winged drain valve or put in a spring loaded drain valve? Then, no more crawling under the coach to drain the tanks!

 Bart from Virginia

[jacwjames]

9 hours ago, isptbart said:

Jim - I would think it would be an easy task for you to remove your two drain plugs/valves, replace with a 1/4" hose fitting & run the hose over to a convenient spot to access either manually with a ball valve, radiator type winged drain valve or put in a spring loaded drain valve? Then, no more crawling under the coach to drain the tanks!

 Bart from Virginia

When I am lubing my chassis I am under the coach anyway, not a big deal for me to check for air in the system by opening the valve a little. 

Maybe when I get too old to do  my own service I'll consider running lines and remote valves. 

[Jimmer]

This my front tank with new fittings and pressure switch. No leaks. Done.

Now to the rear tank.

[jacwjames]

10 hours ago, Jimmer said:

This my front tank with new fittings and pressure switch. No leaks. Done.

Now to the rear tank.

I had been posting on IRV2 forum while I was doing the work on my air leaks.  I had posted a picture of my new PPV's installed and one of the senior members asked about orientation.  I commented I thought they should with the spring cover on the top because that's how mine was mounted and that's how it showed in the diagrams I had. 

Another member said he thought it didn't make any difference.  It peaked my interest and did a search and found a detailed installation instruction sheet that specifically said the springs should be mounted on the down side. 

So I went back through and changed mine as the instructions showed. 

PPV installation instructions.pdf

[deputylynch]

I know this topic's pretty old but can somebody please look at my pictures and tell me if they think the leak that I have on this fitting is enough to draw down my system after about 2 days? Also what type of fitting is this, is it a push into connect and I can just push on the top to release it or is it something else? 

Edited September 8, 2023 by deputylynch
Add photos

[96 EVO]

I think you have a bigger leak than that.... Somewhere!

OR, several that size.

Edited September 8, 2023 by 96 EVO

[deputylynch]

Well that's all I found so far and I'm not sure about that fitting. Is it just a push pull style m

[96 EVO]

Looks like it, but, I'll defer to a member who has changed out air bags!

[Frank Bergamo]

Did you try tightening it? It may just need snugged up.

[deputylynch]

I've not touched it since I don't know what type of fitting it is. 

[David Pratt]

That fitting is a "Push to Connect" fitting. You can purchase them at any automotive parts store, Amazon, Lowes and Home depot.

Dump all the air in your coach before messing with it. Then push the airline into the fitting at the same time pushing in the release collar and while you hold the release collar in, pull the airline out of the fitting.

Closely inspect the end of the airline where it goes into the fitting and you will see a grove in the line about a 1/4" from the end. Cut the airline at or just above the grove and reinstall the airline and check for a leak. If you are lucky this will fix the leak, if not you will need to replace the fitting.

This is a common problem with these "Push to Connect" fittings because as the coach gets older the vibration and other issues cause the airline to move in the fitting and the grove you see is the area where the sealing "O-ring" sets on the line and the vibration causes the "o-ring" to wear a grove into the airline.

Cutting the grove out of the line solves most air leaks if the "o-ring" in the fitting has not failed. If it still leaks, replace the fitting. With the airline removed it will screw out of the the airbag.

One way to ensure you do not have the same issue happen again is to replace the "Push to Connect" fitting with a "Compression Fitting" and eliminate the problem.

Every time i find a leaking "push to Connect" fitting leaking, I will do step one first and if I have to replace the fitting, I will replace it with a compression fitting. The compression fittings are usually less than half the price of the "Push to Connect" fittings.

 

[deputylynch]

Do you use any standard quarter inch compression fitting or something special? 

[David Pratt]

Just use a compression fitting that matches up to the "Push to Connect" fitting you are replacing

[deputylynch]

8 minutes ago, David Pratt said:

Just use a compression fitting that matches up to the "Push to Connect" fitting you are replacing

So you're fine with using a standard 1/4-in brass compression fitting? 

[amphi_sc]

3 minutes ago, deputylynch said:

So you're fine with using a standard 1/4-in brass compression fitting? 

My preference is DOT approved compression hardware.

FWIW, YMMV

[Tdkkart]

13 hours ago, deputylynch said:

I know this topic's pretty old but can somebody please look at my pictures and tell me if they think the leak that I have on this fitting is enough to draw down my system after about 2 days? Also what type of fitting is this, is it a push into connect and I can just push on the top to release it or is it something else? 

It takes a couple days for it to bleed down??  I'd say you need to find a better way to use your time.  The DOT spec for a semi tractor by itself is less than 4psi/minute, 8psi/minute if the trailer is connected.

That said, without getting neurotic about it, doing as David says at each leaking fitting isn't bad practice, because over time each one of those fitting will eventually cut the line and blow it out of the fitting.  Industrial equipment that cycles 100s of times an hour or minute blow lines off on a regular basis after they've been running a few months.  Usually ends in replacing the fitting, because the end of the line is stuck in the bottom of the hole.

Go after the leaks you can hear first, then work down the list to the ones that just foam up a bit.

 

[deputylynch]

4 minutes ago, Tdkkart said:

It takes a couple days for it to bleed down??  I'd say you need to find a better way to use your time.  The DOT spec for a semi tractor by itself is less than 4psi/minute, 8psi/minute if the trailer is connected.

That said, without getting neurotic about it, doing as David says at each leaking fitting isn't bad practice, because over time each one of those fitting will eventually cut the line and blow it out of the fitting.  Industrial equipment that cycles 100s of times an hour or minute blow lines off on a regular basis after they've been running a few months.  Usually ends in replacing the fitting, because the end of the line is stuck in the bottom of the hole.

Go after the leaks you can hear first, then work down the list to the ones that just foam up a bit.

 

I don't like the fact that the front of my coach and steps are on just about on the ground after about 2 days! 

[Tdkkart]

Just now, deputylynch said:

I don't like the fact that the front of my coach and steps are on just about on the ground after about 2 days! 

I dump all my air as soon as I park, just before I put the jacks down.  Doing it this way drops the bus 4-5" inches, which allows me to do stupid stuff like drive off with the jacks down like I did the other day after airing up.

Yes, I know, figuring out why my jacks down and low air alarms don't work is on my list. I suspect a previous owner disconnected them, or smashed them with a hammer.

Having the steps down allows allows the dogs to get in and out easier.

[jacwjames]

My coach was fine back in 2021 prior to taking a trip in Nov.  I even did a leak down test and after a week I still had good pressure, dropped maybe ~15psi

Then during a trip I noticed that in the morning when I got ready to leave and turned the key my low air alarm would come on.  So I started watching and it got progressively worse and to the point that it would leak down in about 45 minutes.  What I found was all my PPV's were leaking, all started about the same time.

So I went home and spent time working on fixing leaks.  Replaced all the PPV's and other similar fittings that could fail over time.  Used all new PTC fittings.  Had one that I could get to seal, the tubing was coming in at an angle, so I used a compression fitting there.  

So if you go through the air system, take your time, find the leaks and fix them. 

Now the air pressure will stay up for a month, air bags don't leak at all. 

[deputylynch]

1 minute ago, Tdkkart said:

I dump all my air as soon as I park, just before I put the jacks down.  Doing it this way drops the bus 4-5" inches, which allows me to do stupid stuff like drive off with the jacks down like I did the other day after airing up.

Yes, I know, figuring out why my jacks down and low air alarms don't work is on my list. I suspect a previous owner disconnected them, or smashed them with a hammer.

Having the steps down allows allows the dogs to get in and out easier.

For more of a camping situation I absolutely agree with putting the jacks down but when it's just parked somewhere like my driveway or for storage I don't like coming and seeing it's sitting that low. 

[96 EVO]

I don't lose air in my air bags, and still wouldn't be ok with losing all my tank air in 48hrs!

[dl_racing427]

On 9/8/2023 at 11:21 AM, Tdkkart said:

It takes a couple days for it to bleed down??  I'd say you need to find a better way to use your time.  The DOT spec for a semi tractor by itself is less than 4psi/minute, 8psi/minute if the trailer is connected.

That said, without getting neurotic about it, doing as David says at each leaking fitting isn't bad practice, because over time each one of those fitting will eventually cut the line and blow it out of the fitting.  Industrial equipment that cycles 100s of times an hour or minute blow lines off on a regular basis after they've been running a few months.  Usually ends in replacing the fitting, because the end of the line is stuck in the bottom of the hole.

Go after the leaks you can hear first, then work down the list to the ones that just foam up a bit.

 

Those times are when doing the air brake test, with all brake canisters pressurized.
A continuous leak at that rate would make it difficult for your compressor to build air at idle, and would also cause it to work a lot harder all the time.

[deputylynch]

Well I forgot one of my own basic principles in life about KISS! Turns out my parking brake valve was bad and that's where all my air was leaking from. Should have been checked first! 

[jacwjames]

17 hours ago, deputylynch said:

Well I forgot one of my own basic principles in life about KISS! Turns out my parking brake valve was bad and that's where all my air was leaking from. Should have been checked first! 

Ya but if you fixed other minor leaks then it wasn't a waste of time or money!!