Replacing Hydraulic Slide Out Chains in HWH X-Slides

[Hypoxia]

I replaced the easy chain, the front one just behind the entry door.  Lots of space there, relatively speaking.  Instead of using the original 1/4" pins with snap rings I used a grade 5 bolt, 1/4" X 2 1/4" - 20 & locknut on the top hydraulic cylinder shaft hole and a 1/4" X 1 3/8" Clevis pin & cotter pin on the lower hydraulic cylinder shaft hole.  Those holes are about 1 1/2" apart.  The chain is attached to the X-Slide with a 1/4" X 2 1/4" - 20 grade 5 bolt with a locknut. 

I had the slide all the way in and extended it out a couple of inches to allow some hydraulic cylinder movement.  There is a half inch bolt on the bottom of the cylinder with nuts which adjust the cylinder up & down with a 3/4" wrench.  I took a photo of the bolt so I could use the same number of threads for installation.  I lowered the cylinder enough to move it out of it's retaining bracket, that just made it easier to install the bolt through the chain and cylinder shaft.  I might use a clevis pin instead of a bolt on the next ones but I just had one on hand & there is enough clearance it shouldn't matter.

I'll work on the rear slide next when I have time.

[Specialk]

Thanks for update. This is valuable information to me.  How long did this take you?

 

[LakeBob]

Great info!   Any pictures?

[pwhittle]

4 hours ago, Hypoxia said:

I replaced the easy chain, the front one just behind the entry door.  Lots of space there, relatively speaking.  Instead of using the original 1/4" pins with snap rings I used a grade 5 bolt, 1/4" X 2 1/4" - 20 & locknut on the top hydraulic cylinder shaft hole and a 1/4" X 1 3/8" Clevis pin & cotter pin on the lower hydraulic cylinder shaft hole.  Those holes are about 1 1/2" apart.  The chain is attached to the X-Slide with a 1/4" X 2 1/4" - 20 grade 5 bolt with a locknut. 

I had the slide all the way in and extended it out a couple of inches to allow some hydraulic cylinder movement.  There is a half inch bolt on the bottom of the cylinder with nuts which adjust the cylinder up & down with a 3/4" wrench.  I took a photo of the bolt so I could use the same number of threads for installation.  I lowered the cylinder enough to move it out of it's retaining bracket, that just made it easier to install the bolt through the chain and cylinder shaft.  I might use a clevis pin instead of a bolt on the next ones but I just had one on hand & there is enough clearance it shouldn't matter.

I'll work on the rear slide next when I have time.

You are a betteR man than me!

I struggled to get the chain installed with the mechanism on my bench. Did your chain from HWH have a bend in it or lay flat?

Paul

[Hypoxia]

10 hours ago, Specialk said:

Thanks for update. This is valuable information to me.  How long did this take you?

 

I did it when I could fit it in so I'm not sure, perhaps 6 hours over a 2 day period.  Now that I know what to expect it should be shorter for the next two.  The last one will be in the galley and will not be fun.

[Hypoxia]

8 hours ago, pwhittle said:

You are a betteR man than me!

I struggled to get the chain installed with the mechanism on my bench. Did your chain from HWH have a bend in it or lay flat?

Paul

It started with a bend in it.  I thought; what do the HWH techs do? & figured they straightened it out enough to work with so that's what I did.  I jumped up & down on it which wasn't enough so I stuck it below the vice jaws and put enough pressure to make it fairly straight using a piece of pipe.  It has to be straight to work in the X-Slide, it couldn't do its job otherwise.

The pins with snap rings make sense in a factory but not in the field.

 

[amphi_sc]

Hi guys.  I have some broken rollers in my HWH X room (front passenger side, AP27708) so ordered new chain RAP91695.  Looks right.  Got the old chain loose from the arm but how do you get the cylinder out to work on it where the chain attaches to the cylinder?  I dropped the cylinder as low as it will go but old chain won't clear the 90 degree turn.  Can't pull bottom of the cylinder out as either the lower bracket is in the way or if slide the cylinder up the top of the cylinder is cradled by a thick C retainer and won't come out.  That C retainer holds the cylinder in the upright position in the channel on the wall.  It didn't seem to want to pull out thru the C. Old chain has the rivited axle pins all the way.  Only bolt is the top one in the arm.  Pretty tight to work in there.

Jim/Paul ... does this make sense from your experience?  Hard to take a picture but could try if I'm not explaining my situation clearly.   My '07 Patriot Thunder Winchester III is pretty close to yours.

BTW, My new replacement chain has a slight arch but I'll see how to deal with that once I get the old chain off.  Thinking if I had to I'd file the joints a bit to allow it to lay flatter.  But first I need a little hint to get the old one off.

Thanks in advance

Al

[pwhittle]

I was able to get the circlip off the pin at the cylinder end without removing the cylinder. Then I could remove the chain. I replaced the pin and circlip with a Grade 8 bolt and locknut.

However, I ended up removing the whole mechanism to fit the new chain.

Paul

[Brett63]

This is a pretty good video on what is involved and how it all goes together. I follow this guy's youtube feed and he has several good informative videos.

 

[amphi_sc]

Hello guys

Paul, Could you elaborate a little on the "However, I ended up removing the whole mechanism to fit the new chain."

My mechanism is like this one AZ Pete did a video on, but at least it's my front chain. Not like the double chain version above. And my new chain is curved just like his.

 

 

[Hypoxia]

7 hours ago, amphi_sc said:

Hi guys.  I have some broken rollers in my HWH X room (front passenger side, AP27708) so ordered new chain RAP91695.  Looks right.  Got the old chain loose from the arm but how do you get the cylinder out to work on it where the chain attaches to the cylinder?  I dropped the cylinder as low as it will go but old chain won't clear the 90 degree turn.  Can't pull bottom of the cylinder out as either the lower bracket is in the way or if slide the cylinder up the top of the cylinder is cradled by a thick C retainer and won't come out.  That C retainer holds the cylinder in the upright position in the channel on the wall.  It didn't seem to want to pull out thru the C. Old chain has the rivited axle pins all the way.  Only bolt is the top one in the arm.  Pretty tight to work in there.

Jim/Paul ... does this make sense from your experience?  Hard to take a picture but could try if I'm not explaining my situation clearly.   My '07 Patriot Thunder Winchester III is pretty close to yours.

BTW, My new replacement chain has a slight arch but I'll see how to deal with that once I get the old chain off.  Thinking if I had to I'd file the joints a bit to allow it to lay flatter.  But first I need a little hint to get the old one off.

Thanks in advance

Al

I just changed another chain a few days ago.  Access was through the rear closet which gave room to maneuver.  I did it a little different than the last one.  Once you remove the bolt at the top end of the chain, the two pins at the cylinder can be removed with the cylinder in place.  I used pliers to pull a circlip off of one end of each pin which destroys that circlip.  I pushed one pin out with a pry bar far enough to get a tool under the remaining circlip & pry the pin out.  The second pin is easier since there is no tension on it.  Then you can remove the old chain & slide the new chain in place.

I re-used the pins by drilling a hole for a cotter pin through the circlip groove on one end.  The circlip on the other end was not damaged.  I put the pin in the top hole of the cylinder shaft then made a 1/4" spacer to slide under the cylinder shaft & slid it up under the chain to keep it away from the wall.  l   I used a variety of pry bars & was able to get the bottom pin started through the link on one side of the chain & through the cylinder shaft.  With the help of a long vice grip to hold the other side link in place I was able to use pry bars to force the link down & get the pin through it.  Without the spacer the chain is against the wall with no room to move.  I put cotter pins in each pin, put the bolt in the top link (don't forget the spacer) and voila, it works.

I did use a socket on the top bolt that I had turned on the lathe to make it small enough to fit through the hole & reach the bolt head.  I did not loosen the cylinder or pop it out of its channel.  I did not operate the hydraulics at all once I put the slide in about an inch from fully in to start the job.  The pile of tools at the completion of the job was quite large, I should have taken a picture.

That video is interesting to use as a visual of how everything is put together but I'll bet he will do it differently the next time.

 

[amphi_sc]

I finally got the cylinder out and new chain attached to the cylinder.  Now it's a bear trying to feed that back up the bend.  I'll give it a few more hours then maybe try unhooking the chain to feed it down from the top and trying to hook it up onto the cylinder.  Would have to go off to hardware store for bolts/nylock nuts for that.  New chain is very tight, almost like they set the axles too tight.  Some rollers hard to turn.  Almost might have been better to rebuild the old chain myself with new rollers and axles.

[amphi_sc]

Just a final update on how I would do it again after all my frustrations.

Slide retracted all the way in (cylinders are fully extended) then just a tap back out to lessen the tension on the chain.  Open Hydraulic pressure release nuts at the manifold (no more than 4 1/2 turns ... I could hear pressure bleed off about 3 1/2 turns.)

Loosen adjustment nuts on the bottom of the cylinder so there is some up/down play in the cylinder/chain.

Unhook the top of the chain from the mechanism.  I used two open end wrenches to grab the bolt & nut between the arms.  (Later, after the bolt was removed I re-drilled the outside hole with a 5/8 drill wobbling a little as 11/16 might have been a better fit for my socket during reassembly.  Still used the open end on the nut between the arms.)

(Making sure you bled off the pressure earlier.) Reverse the hydraulic line so "slide in" will retract that one cylinder capping off the other line and container to catch expelled fluid.

Close pressure release nuts, Move "slide in". This cylinder you are working on thinks slide is going out and retracts (shortening piston extension) and catching fluid onto a jar.  Other cylinder seems fine being already fully extended for "slide in".  This brings the detached chain toward the 90° bend so keep an eye on it and stop it where you can still get a good grip on the upper end and while the piston has retracted more than the distance between bottom of the cylinder and the top of the stiffening brace down there.

Release hydraulic pressure nuts, unhook all hydraulic lines to this cylinder, cap off lines, completely remove adjusting bolt.

Grab the chain and bottom of the cylinder and slide it all up so the bottom of the cylinder can clear that bottom stiffening brace.

Now pull bottom of cylinder out past the brace and out of the C retainer on the wall. 

Now at about 30° or more angle from the wall the tension on the chain/cylinder pins is removed and can be more easily extracted.  That manufactured bend in the chain keeps so much tension on those pins when against the wall ... and no room to work in there...  Or if able, first try just rotating & pulling the cylinder & chain completely through the 90° bend bracket.

Reinstall new chain down the bend bracket.  My experience was I could feed it down better than up   I first tried with chain attached to the cylinder and feeding it up but couldn't push/pull/twist/wiggle just right.

With the cylinder free at an angle you can easily get the pins in compensating for that natural bend in the chain.

With chain attached to the cylinder and hanging free & loose, align upper chain to attach to the arm.  Remember that spacer.  In my case, it would easily stay wedged aligned with the chain holes without tape or anything else.  Also remember I reamed out that arm hole a bit to fit a socket for reassembly.  I still used an open end wrench on the nut ... I could hold the nut with my fingers while turning a nut driver on the bolt to get the threads started.

Push cylinder back to the wall into the C retainer.

Slide the cylinder-chain assembly back down into rough position past the stiffening brace.  (The cylinder will extend without needing hydraulics whereas internal porting/brake prevents manual retraction.  I guess that is why you can release the pressure in an emergency to manually push the slide in -- extending the piston -- and then hydraulic lock holds the slide in as the piston won't retract.)

Reattach bolt to bottom of the cylinder.  Reattach hydraulic lines to correct fittings.

At this point I left the slide's pressure release nuts "released" and moved the generator in/out a few times.  That seemed to allow some fluid movement in the slide lines without the slide moving.  I don't know if it helped bleed the line or not, but I didn't have to do the HWH bleed procedure.  Do insure adequate fluid level in the reservoir.

Satisfied I had no hydraulic leaks, I manually moved and measured for equal distance for slide from the coach side.

Tightened up the adjustment bolt.

Closed pressure release nuts.

Moved the slide a couple inches out and in to recheck for parallel movement.  Released hydraulic pressure and moved adjustment bolt as necessary.  Repeat until happy.

Ran slide all the way out holding button for a few seconds, same with retraction.  Repeat.The third sync cylinder seemed happy.  Slide moved smoothly so I didn't feel it necessary to do any bleed procedure.

For me, the key was reversing the one hydraulic line to retract the piston releasing bend tension on the chain by being able to pull the cylinder out from the wall..  The HWH manual did show how to bypass the sync cylinder to move just one cylinder, but I chose to not break those connections.  As I had no carpet in the area to worry about, I wasn't so concerned with opening the lines and knew I was going to get some fluid on the wood even with plastic and towels.

Although I bought two chains, the other  one by the cabinets still looks okay so I ain't messing with it until I have to.

Here's my old chain with 3 missing rollers, two next to each other in the retract position and one in the extended position.  Also a picture of that bottom stiffening brace that gets in the way of cylinder removal.

FWIW and YMMV

[robertmrankin6612]

Hi Folks,

Well..... I'm in the middle of replacing my fwd chain on my 05 Dynasty.  On my chain, the roller that sits at the bottom of the guide block when the slide is in was broken.  The next 2 above were cracked at the axels.  Strangely, to me, the bottom 2 rollers that don't seem to contact anything were also cracked at the axels.  My chain was in good condition, so I opted to replace the rollers using clevis pins.

My challenge, so far, is that I cannot get the chain to feed thru the guide block, either from the top, or bottom.  It seem to jam when the second roller enters the guide block.  The clevis pins clear fine.  I have tied a strong line to the chain, and when feeding from the top stood on the loop in the line, and it still won't feed.

I'm hoping I'm missing something simple that you folks can help me with.  I'm more than a bit frustrated as the same chain came out relatively easily.

Cheers

Bob

[robertmrankin6612]

WEll, the something simple I was missing was I had the chain upside down, wow, how stupid was that!!!

Its all back together again, thank goodness.  Changing the top bolt to a socket head cap screw, and using clevis pins with cotter pins on the bottom helped a lot.

Looking at the damaged rollers on my galley slide, where the 3 rollers that ride on the guide block when closed, and the 2 top end rollers that ride on the guide block when extended, I have decided from now on to bump the switch to slightly release the tension on the chain in both positions.  When it is time to travel, I will retension the chain to the motor stalled sound.

Cheers

Bob

[Fun fun]

Hi all 

this misspelled 2 links drone the chain after replacing my hydraulic cylinder 

call the company and that don’t have the chain in stock for minimum 1 month 

dos any one has only one and willing to sell me 2-3 links please 

thanks 

[Fun fun]

On 4/28/2022 at 9:40 AM, Hypoxia said:

I just changed another chain a few days ago.  Access was through the rear closet which gave room to maneuver.  I did it a little different than the last one.  Once you remove the bolt at the top end of the chain, the two pins at the cylinder can be removed with the cylinder in place.  I used pliers to pull a circlip off of one end of each pin which destroys that circlip.  I pushed one pin out with a pry bar far enough to get a tool under the remaining circlip & pry the pin out.  The second pin is easier since there is no tension on it.  Then you can remove the old chain & slide the new chain in place.

I re-used the pins by drilling a hole for a cotter pin through the circlip groove on one end.  The circlip on the other end was not damaged.  I put the pin in the top hole of the cylinder shaft then made a 1/4" spacer to slide under the cylinder shaft & slid it up under the chain to keep it away from the wall.  l   I used a variety of pry bars & was able to get the bottom pin started through the link on one side of the chain & through the cylinder shaft.  With the help of a long vice grip to hold the other side link in place I was able to use pry bars to force the link down & get the pin through it.  Without the spacer the chain is against the wall with no room to move.  I put cotter pins in each pin, put the bolt in the top link (don't forget the spacer) and voila, it works.

I did use a socket on the top bolt that I had turned on the lathe to make it small enough to fit through the hole & reach the bolt head.  I did not loosen the cylinder or pop it out of its channel.  I did not operate the hydraulics at all once I put the slide in about an inch from fully in to start the job.  The pile of tools at the completion of the job was quite large, I should have taken a picture.

That video is interesting to use as a visual of how everything is put together but I'll bet he will do it differently the next time.

 

Good morning 

I’m looking for the chain or part of the chain for 2004 itasca horizon 40kd sliding 

I replaced the hydraulic cylinder and I miss placed 2 links and the pin to reconnect it 

Please let me know if you have it 

Thanks 

 

[Paul J A]

Bicycle shops are great places to consider TALKING to when working with that type of chain.  Worth a chat. It's their world.  Master links and monkey links can be common. 

[amphi_sc]

Hi Dror,

I save everything, but the question is can I find it?  I could probably grind off the pin separating a couple of links from the end that way it wouldn't be so heavy to ship.  Exactly how much are you in needing?  I think it looks like one pair of inside & outside would be plenty? If I separate my old chain at the "north" end at the broken roller shown below, would that be enough? What's your address?  As for pins, can't help you there but probably just just a bolt and nut as that end of the chain has plenty of clearance... at least on a Monaco type coach, not sure about yours.  We can PM if you want to pursue.

Al H

Edited May 13, 2023 by amphi_sc