FASS Install

[jacwjames]

I bypassed my lift pump, it had started to leak and that was my motivation for the FASS system.  If you bypass the lift pump you need to put in relay (or something similar) to fool the ECM into thinking the lift pump ran for the ~30 seconds.   I added the fooler relay. 

 

[timaz996]

9 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I bypassed my lift pump, it had started to leak and that was my motivation for the FASS system.  If you bypass the lift pump you need to put in relay (or something similar) to fool the ECM into thinking the lift pump ran for the ~30 seconds.   I added the fooler relay. 

 

X2, " I added the fooler relay."  it's an easy solution.

[Notn2bars]

Thanks Tim and Jim, will also be putting in a relay, have 5 or 6 laying around.  We have been waiting on parts to come in. The 10 AN female to 10 AN male was unavailable last week, came in today.  The nearest vendor for AN fittings is about 30 miles away.  Welded an extension on one of the mounting brackets and all looks good to be amounting the FASS behind the propane tank.  It's a little hot outside at the moment, so inside taking a breather.  Hopefully get it all mounted after things cool off.  We appreciate you keeping up with our install and all the encouragement.  God Bless, Ed & Sylvia

[welleking]

TIM  I love those HP and torque numbers. All these coaches have IS  engines, are those verified numbers?

I am relatively sure mine is about 375 by comparing response between other coaches I have driven and what the mods were supposed to produce. The new holset turbo is running very fine. I would like hear what others have done with their mechanical engines. like I have stated before I am a mechanical experimenter and free thinker. The remarks made by some before Bill died have kept mostly silent since then.  BUT some posts are to good to ignore.

[timaz996]

12 minutes ago, welleking said:

TIM  I love those HP and torque numbers. All these coaches have IS  engines, are those verified numbers?

I am relatively sure mine is about 375 by comparing response between other coaches I have driven and what the mods were supposed to produce. The new holset turbo is running very fine. I would like hear what others have done with their mechanical engines. like I have stated before I am a mechanical experimenter and free thinker. The remarks made by some before Bill died have kept mostly silent since then.  BUT some posts are to good to ignore.

Banks verifies their numbers on a dyno. Research shows opening the exhaust from 4 to 5" adds 10 to 15%. So I added 10% to Banks numbers. I do pull 35psi boost and EGT stays below 1250F  at that boost so I'm happy with it. Depending on how much your fuel gets aeriated FASS say it will add power also. I will see in a couple weeks when I head into the Rocky Mountains.

Tim 

[Notn2bars]

Tim, did you do the exhaust yourself?  Did you delete the muffler?  PTL, finally finished the FASS install.  Mounted it behind the propane tank, which gave me plenty of fuel line to hook everything up. First did the electrical lines.  Drilled hole in upper front run bay.  Put line through with connector to the FASS pump.  Zip tied FASS line to existing line that ran to propane bay.  Drilled hole in propane bay and put line through with connector to FASS.  Installed relay at top of front run bay.  Used a target arrow shaft to poke hole between wires up to drivers right side console.  Soldered longer wire to FASS ground and fed  wire through hole and attached to ground buss on dash.  Attached the ignition wire to the bottom of the middle buss and attached the positive feed wire to the left buss.  (see 2 red wires at bottom of busses.  At the back by the motor, cut existing connector from lift pump.  Attached wires to old connector using male bullet connectors.  In addition attached male bullet connectors to lift pump wires.  Did this so if the FASS pump fails, bullet connectors can be pulled apart and the lift pump wires can be reattached with the bullet connectors.  Ran wires to rear run bay for "fooler relay".  It's the relay on the right with the purple and gray wires.  After completing the install and starting her up, we foamed all the lines.

[Notn2bars]

FASS finished.  Started by cutting a hole in the plywood between the propane and fuel tank compartments.  Cut the hoses and attached them to the FASS pump, as it would be too tight a fit for the wrenches once installed.  The hose on the right is the return hose.  The fitting going into the tank was replaced with a larger diameter fitting.  The original fitting had a copper pipe that went to the bottom of the tank.  Removed it by lifting and bending the copper a little at a time.  Then attached the return hose.  The hose in the middle is for the suction side of the FASS pump.  It's the feed from the tank.  The hose with the attachment on the left side is the feed for the caps.  The hose provided in the kit was more than adequate.  Actually have about 4-5 feet left over.  Back at the lift pump.  Bypassed lift pump altogether with a female-female 10 AN fitting.  Removed hoses from lift pump manifold and attached to fitting.  Capped lift pum manifold with two 10 AN caps.  All the fitting used were either 10 AN or 8 AN.  Faomed all lines and wires as needed.  Worked out well, bled according to FASS instructions, took 2 tries to start motor.  She seems to idle much smoother.    

FASS finised.  Pics of the pump installed. First pic is from above the propane tank.  Second pic is looking up from the bottom of the propane compartment.  God Bless all of those who took and interest, especially Tim and Jim.

[jacwjames]

I bet your glad it's done.  Nice install.

Are you going to add a fuel pressure gauge? 

[timaz996]

2 hours ago, We2dynasty said:

Tim, did you do the exhaust yourself?  Did you delete the muffler?  PTL, finally finished the FASS install.  Mounted it behind the propane tank, which gave me plenty of fuel line to hook everything up. First did the electrical lines.  Drilled hole in upper front run bay.  Put line through with connector to the FASS pump.  Zip tied FASS line to existing line that ran to propane bay.  Drilled hole in propane bay and put line through with connector to FASS.  Installed relay at top of front run bay.  Used a target arrow shaft to poke hole between wires up to drivers right side console.  Soldered longer wire to FASS ground and fed  wire through hole and attached to ground buss on dash.  Attached the ignition wire to the bottom of the middle buss and attached the positive feed wire to the left buss.  (see 2 red wires at bottom of busses.  At the back by the motor, cut existing connector from lift pump.  Attached wires to old connector using male bullet connectors.  In addition attached male bullet connectors to lift pump wires.  Did this so if the FASS pump fails, bullet connectors can be pulled apart and the lift pump wires can be reattached with the bullet connectors.  Ran wires to rear run bay for "fooler relay".  It's the relay on the right with the purple and gray wires.  After completing the install and starting her up, we foamed all the lines.

Hi Ed, I'm sure you glad it's done as Jim said. I took the stock exhaust out and installed the new one my friend custom made. The new muffler is about 18" long and straight though. Turbo don't like back pressure. He makes custom race exhausts for a living and drag cars and chassis. 

Tim 

[Notn2bars]

Yes,  will add a presssure gauge once I figure out where to put it.  Neither of the fuel filter manifolds back by the motor are configured with the port in the top for a gauge.  Thank you both for your support and advice.  Thinking about posting the install on IRV2 also, what do y'all think?  God Bless, Ed & Sylvia

[timaz996]

2 minutes ago, We2dynasty said:

Yes,  will add a presssure gauge once I figure out where to put it.  Neither of the fuel filter manifolds back by the motor are configured with the port in the top for a gauge.  Thank you both for your support and advice.  Thinking about posting the install on IRV2 also, what do y'all think?  God Bless, Ed & Sylvia

Yes you should put it on irv2 also...more can learn. These coaches really are snow flakes. here is a picture of my secondary filter. God Bless and stay safe.

Tim

[Notn2bars]

Thank you Tim. My plan was to add a gauge like you did on the secondary filter.  Alas, my snowflake doesn't have such a place for the installation.

God Bless, Ed & Sylvia

[jacwjames]

My secondary filter had a port, I had to get an adapter to be able to fit the sensor the gauge. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/291230422814?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

By putting it in the secondary filter I'm seeing what pressure is being delivered to the CAPS pump.  When I turn the key it shows ~16psi, drops a little and usually runs about 15psi with normal driving.  On hard pulls it will be ~13psi. 

Hoping this will be a good indicator when filters start to get plugged.  I've put ~10K miles on the rig so far. 

[Notn2bars]

Good morning Jim,  wish my secondary or primary filter had the port.  Neither of mine do! So my first try will be to locate a 10 AN tee.  Will see if that works!

God Bless, Ed & Sylvia

[jacwjames]

The do make the 10AN fittings for this. 

I think there is a port on top of the FASS system.

Good luck.

[timaz996]

Here is the location of my secondary filter with gage and FASS pump with filters.

Tim

[Notn2bars]

Tim, your setup looks great!!! Jim, there is a port on the FASS system.  However do to the location of my FASS system and the close quarters, it makes that port pretty inaccessible.   Even is it was, the location of the port on the FASS makes it impractical. By the way Jim, did you ever receive the tile I sent?  God Bless, Ed & Sylvia

[jacwjames]

Yes I did, thanks.  I assume you've done your stair well!

[Notn2bars]

Well, no not really, removed the tile then changed directions and installed FASS.  I guess I get distracted!!!!! Since it looks like we will be doing the floor before we go anywhere, kinda put the stairwell on hold. God Bless, Ed & Sylvia

[vanwill52]

It is always best to install the sensor for your remote pressure gage on the OUTLET side of the final filter, in between it and the CAPS pump.  That way, the pressure you are reading is the ACTUAL pressure at the CAPS pump inlet. My original secondary filter had no tapping for a gage.  I drilled and tapped one myself.  I have a mechanical gage mounted on the outlet side of the secondary filter, along with the sensor for the remote gage.  The remote gage is a GREAT reliable indicator of filter condition.

My FASS is located in the engine compartment.  I would like to have had it forward near the tank, but in my case that was not

I eliminated my stock primary filter.  I now have the two filters on the FASS unit, plus my original secondary filter.  I am now down to a 2-micron final filter, and pressure is still 14 PSI at the CAPS inlet at WOT.

When I first installed the system, I had to replace two FASS primary filters in just a couple of months--a good indication that the "constant filtering" is worthwhile.  I used to replace filters based on time or mileage.  Now, I just look at the drop in pressure at the CAPS inlet.  With all new filters, pressure is about 17 PSI at idle, and drops to 14 PSI at WOT.  From now on, I will only replace filters when the pressure at the CAPS inlet falls significantly at WOT.

I am very happy with the system.  I expected NO power increase, nor did I get any.  The FASS was simply "insurance" for my CAPS pump.  I got a modest increase in power from the AG Solutions chip, which required an increase in boost pressure to keep EGT down.  Previously, my boost was about 22-23 PSI at WOT.  Now it is 30-31 PSI at WOT.  That significantly reduced EGT.  It surprises most folks to learn that EGT on a bone-stock ISC-350 can reach 1450*F at high throttle settings and/or low RPM.  Installing an EGT gage is an eye-opener, and you soon realize how much you can reduce EGT with higher RPM.

For those of you with the Banks kit, do you know the ID of the turbo they supplied with the kit?  I always assumed they supplied a larger capacity turbo simply to have more boost at a lower RPM to control EGT.  There is NO power increase from simply increasing boost.

[Jim Pratten]

2 hours ago, vanwill52 said:

I eliminated my stock primary filter.  I now have the two filters on the FASS unit, plus my original secondary filter.  I am now down to a 2-micron final filter, and . . . . 

Van, on my growing lists of projects, a FASS install is probable.  As I've thought and read yours and others posts, seems like a rear location is easiest to mount and maintain.  Expect I'd follow very similar layout as you have.  I'm thinking the FASS suction side filter (1 of 2 FASS filters) should be the filter canister of the existing fuel water separator with the sensor. I'd like your thoughts; is this what you did and if not, what was your thinking?

thx . . .   Jim

[timaz996]

3 hours ago, vanwill52 said:

It is always best to install the sensor for your remote pressure gage on the OUTLET side of the final filter, in between it and the CAPS pump.  That way, the pressure you are reading is the ACTUAL pressure at the CAPS pump inlet. My original secondary filter had no tapping for a gage.  I drilled and tapped one myself.  I have a mechanical gage mounted on the outlet side of the secondary filter, along with the sensor for the remote gage.  The remote gage is a GREAT reliable indicator of filter condition.

My FASS is located in the engine compartment.  I would like to have had it forward near the tank, but in my case that was not

I eliminated my stock primary filter.  I now have the two filters on the FASS unit, plus my original secondary filter.  I am now down to a 2-micron final filter, and pressure is still 14 PSI at the CAPS inlet at WOT.

When I first installed the system, I had to replace two FASS primary filters in just a couple of months--a good indication that the "constant filtering" is worthwhile.  I used to replace filters based on time or mileage.  Now, I just look at the drop in pressure at the CAPS inlet.  With all new filters, pressure is about 17 PSI at idle, and drops to 14 PSI at WOT.  From now on, I will only replace filters when the pressure at the CAPS inlet falls significantly at WOT.

I am very happy with the system.  I expected NO power increase, nor did I get any.  The FASS was simply "insurance" for my CAPS pump.  I got a modest increase in power from the AG Solutions chip, which required an increase in boost pressure to keep EGT down.  Previously, my boost was about 22-23 PSI at WOT.  Now it is 30-31 PSI at WOT.  That significantly reduced EGT.  It surprises most folks to learn that EGT on a bone-stock ISC-350 can reach 1450*F at high throttle settings and/or low RPM.  Installing an EGT gage is an eye-opener, and you soon realize how much you can reduce EGT with higher RPM.

For those of you with the Banks kit, do you know the ID of the turbo they supplied with the kit?  I always assumed they supplied a larger capacity turbo simply to have more boost at a lower RPM to control EGT.  There is NO power increase from simply increasing boost.

Van I do have the Banks kit on my coach and it does have a larger turbo housing. Here is a link to the kit but as you most likely know they don't sell it anymore. Maybe you can find one at a junk yard.  https://official.bankspower.com/magazine/powerpack/ 

[vanwill52]

3 hours ago, Jim Pratten said:

Van, on my growing lists of projects, a FASS install is probable.  As I've thought and read yours and others posts, seems like a rear location is easiest to mount and maintain.  Expect I'd follow very similar layout as you have.  I'm thinking the FASS suction side filter (1 of 2 FASS filters) should be the filter canister of the existing fuel water separator with the sensor. I'd like your thoughts; is this what you did and if not, what was your thinking?

thx . . .   Jim

Jim, soon after the FASS installation, I went through at least a couple of sets of filters before my tank had been "cleaned out".  On the FASS site, although they recommend using their own filters, they list alternates.  I'm presently using other brands.  My primary filter is now the first filter on the FASS pump.  It is 30-micron with the water detection plug in.  The secondary FASS filter is 10-micron.  I retained the original secondary filter (now a 2-micron) and the outlet of that filter is where I tapped a 1/8 NPT for the liquid-filled gage and the sensor for the cockpit-mounted gage.

1 hour ago, Tim-AZ said:

Van I do have the Banks kit on my coach and it does have a larger turbo housing. Here is a link to the kit but as you most likely know they don't sell it anymore. Maybe you can find one at a junk yard.  https://official.bankspower.com/magazine/powerpack/ 

Tim, I'm almost sure the new turbo is a Holset, but I don't know which one.  That is what I want to know.  I am not interested in the complete Banks setup, only the ID of the turbo.  Thanks.

[timaz996]

Sorry Van I don't know the answer. The motor minder CPU with the kit talks to the engine and trans to make sure the EGT doesn't get to high if you are not paying attention. With my 5" diameter exhaust I don't have to worry about the EGT.

Tim

[Notn2bars]

Would it be possible to replace the 144 micron PF 3001 filter on the FASS pump with the 20 micron Fleetguard FS 1242B water separator and the 2 micron XWS 3002 filter on the FASS pump with the Fleetguard FS 1022 4 micron filter.  Then move the XWS 3002 back to where the  FS 1022 was located and put the fuel pressure gauge at that location?  God Bless, Ed & Sylvia