Ted Carbonaro Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 It's time to install Blue Sea-ARC relay on our 06 Camelot. House batteries not charging with generator or shore power. I'm expecting to change out the Trombetta and eliminate the BIRD. I'm looking for wiring assistance as wiring is definitely not my strong suit. Should I be troubleshooting the Trombetta first? What is the best method to troubleshoot it? I suspect that I can eliminate some of the components besides the Trombetta but I'm not sure which ones. My BIRD is in the front run bay as seen in second picture. I assume at a minimum, I need to eliminate the BIRD and switch out the Trombetta with the ML-ARC. Can someone with more knowledge of my electrical system assist with wiring suggestions? I'm also not confident about wiring the remote switch. I may choose to take that on at a later date. Thanks, Ted C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Have you checked you house side 12 volt circuit starting at the battery disconnect all the way to large house fuse that provides power to the inverter. Odd that your batteries aren't charging on shore or generator. Installing a Bluesea may not solve your problem. It might be something else! BUT Do you already have the Bluesea ML-ACR?? If so just remove the Trombetta and install the Bluesea there. You should be able to eliminate the blue solid state isolator at the bottom. Just put the house cables on one side of the blue sea and the chassis on the other. Wiring the switch is pretty straight forward provide you have extra wire besides the white and black already on the Trombetta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 Ted, my thinking here is that if you are not charging your house (or any other battery (chassis)) on shore or Generator... Both of those are 120vac power sources that power your inverter which charges the battery/batteries..... the ML-ACR controls where that 12vdc power goes.... house or chassis or both.... Sounds like you might have an inverter problem...... I'm a big fan of the BlueSea ML-ACR, install it if you have one, buy one if you do not.... it just might not fix your current problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Byrd Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 I'm reluctant to offer any advice without having the electrical schematic. If you have it available, please post. I did install an ACR in my 04 Holiday Rambler Endeavor because the factory wiring didn't provide charging of the house batteries with the chassis alternator when driving down the road. I did remove the Trombetta and wired the ACR in it's place. Your pictures suggest that your coach has an isolator that combines the two batteries systems, my coach didn't have one. I would need your wiring schematic before I would advise you to remove the isolator. Hope this information doesn't confuse you with installing of your ACR, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 If I were you, while you are installing the ML-ACR, I would also change out those two BEP Battery Disconnect Switches and replace them with ones from Blue Seas, Guest or Perko. Your coach will be a much safer & happier place plus it will thank you one day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 13 hours ago, Jim Byrd said: I did install an ACR in my 04 Holiday Rambler Endeavor because the factory wiring didn't provide charging of the house batteries with the chassis alternator when driving down the road. FWIW on our 03 HR Endeavor the house batteries will charge driving down the road if we switch on the inverter - bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 17 minutes ago, cbr046 said: 13 hours ago, Jim Byrd said: I did install an ACR in my 04 Holiday Rambler Endeavor because the factory wiring didn't provide charging of the house batteries with the chassis alternator when driving down the road. FWIW on our 03 HR Endeavor the house batteries will charge driving down the road if we switch on the inverter Bob, How does switching on the inverter while driving (running the 'drive engine' only) work? My 03 HR Endeavor inverter uses chassis battery power to create 120vac to run (for example) my all electric Frig. I use my ML-ACR to 'join' the house and chassis batteries together while driving to keep the inverter from draining my house batteries by charging both from my alternator. My inverter only charges my house batteries (and chassis batteries because of my ML-ACR) when I'm running my generator or connected to shore power.....otherwise the inverter only 'uses' battery power. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 36 minutes ago, cbr046 said: FWIW on our 03 HR Endeavor the house batteries will charge driving down the road if we switch on the inverter The Inverter inverts 12 VDC power to 120 VAC power. The Charger half of the Inverter/Charger device is the half that is used to keep the House batteries charged and if so equipped with extra equipment will also maintain the Chassis battery when parked and hooked to shore or generator power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterskier_1 Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 As Richard said, the inverter/ charger is what charges the house batteries off shore power or generator. The Thrombota and isolation circuitry do not play on this situation. You should first determine why the charger is not charging before worrying about the engine/ alternator system. - Rick N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNick Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 21 hours ago, Cubflyer said: Bob, How does switching on the inverter while driving (running the 'drive engine' only) work? My 03 HR Endeavor inverter uses chassis battery power to create 120vac to run (for example) my all electric Frig. I use my ML-ACR to 'join' the house and chassis batteries together while driving to keep the inverter from draining my house batteries by charging both from my alternator. My inverter only charges my house batteries (and chassis batteries because of my ML-ACR) when I'm running my generator or connected to shore power.....otherwise the inverter only 'uses' battery power. Ken Oh boy, I knew that statement would draw a crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W7BE_Bob Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Ted, We meet in Mesa and I wasn't able to get back to you. The alternator is charging the chassis battery and not the house battery right? The charger is not charging the house batteries right? My take: 1. You need a schematic and voltage measurement to determine the issues. 2. The blue heat sink and autoreset CB have been added, the diode voltage drop is less than ideal. There is no need for this unit given the Trombetta. Disconnect shore power, solar if equipped, batteries, remove and see if there is a label for identification. These are big clues of modification and and there may be other modifications. 3, The Bird appears to have disconnected wires and the yellow connector is likely new (given the other connector colors). I would not trust any of those wires to be correct. They may however be a big help to determine the ignition or battery boost wire that activates the Trombetta. 4. Without shore or gen does your inverter produce AC? To be clear "inverter" is often used instead of the correct charger/inverter term. I want to distinguish between the 2. Since the house battery is not being charged from shore or gen this suggests a charger related issue. There should be a direct connection between the charger/inverter and chassis batteries via cables and fuses and maybe a switch the reason being the very high DC amps that can occur. 5. Check the AC CBs associated with the charger/inverter and the DC output voltage. Note: there may be voltage from the batteries but if the charger is not working the voltage will indicate a discharged battery as will an amp check. Caution: Checking AC can be dangerous and all safety precautions need to be observed. 6. While you could replace the Trombetta with the ARC I would certainly be reluctant to do so until the problems and added equipment are understood. It could be a good idea to get a very experienced mobile tech with Monaco experience for diagnosis, sometimes we all need help. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 2 hours ago, BigNick said: Oh boy, I knew that statement would draw a crowd. What do you mean Nick?.... Is that statement untrue? Am I confused on the inverter/charger operation?? Please enlighten me.. publicly or privately. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W7BE_Bob Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 " There should be a direct connection between the charger/inverter and chassis batteries via cables and fuses and maybe a switch the reason being the very high DC amps that can occur. " Typo correction - should be house batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Carbonaro Posted June 7, 2022 Author Share Posted June 7, 2022 Bob thanks for reminding me about our visit in Mesa. I’d like to connect with you directly, off-line here. House and chassis batteries have resumed charging as normal. I suspect it has to do with a Buss relay/fuse on the House battery side that has a RESET lever. Since I engaged the reset it appears charging has resumed as normal. I previously purchased the ML-ARC and have ordered two battery disconnect switches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Glad you got the charging system working. Now you can do some research as to how to install the Bluesea ML-ACR. If you get everything ready the install can be done in 2-3 hours. I was able to remove my Isolation Solenoid, Lambert 415, and BIRD. I mounted the Bluesea in the same place as the Isolation Solenoid. It is slightly larger but fit nicely. The hardest part for me was running a wire from the newly mounted Bluesea to the front dash to install the switch. I tried to find a spare, wasted a day doing that. Finally just pulled a wire in a 3/4" conduit I had installed earlier to run a harness for my fuel pressure gauge. If you have a spare wire you'll be set. Here is the instructions for the Bluesea I downloaded off their website, it shows the switch wiring. Picture of my Bluesea mounted and the switch on the dash. Bluesea instructions.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigNick Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 5 hours ago, Cubflyer said: What do you mean Nick?.... Is that statement untrue? Am I confused on the inverter/charger operation?? Please enlighten me.. publicly or privately. Ken An inverter is incapable of charging anything. It uses electricity coming FROM the batteries to power some circuits on the coach, it "inverts" the DC (direct current) voltage from the batteries into AC (alternating current) to power microwaves, refers, and outlets. I have a Xantrex Freedom 3012 unit on my coach, it has an inverter section and a battery charger section, and probably a few others in there that I don't know about yet. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass so please accept my apologies if I offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 2 hours ago, BigNick said: An inverter is incapable of charging anything. It uses electricity coming FROM the batteries to power some circuits on the coach, it "inverts" the DC (direct current) voltage from the batteries into AC (alternating current) to power microwaves, refers, and outlets. I have a Xantrex Freedom 3012 unit on my coach, it has an inverter section and a battery charger section, and probably a few others in there that I don't know about yet. I wasn't trying to be a smart ass so please accept my apologies if I offended. Not offended.... my mistake for not being specific... my statement should have been and was meant as "my inverter/charger only charges my batteries...." Take care, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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